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      04-22-2011, 09:26 AM   #1
uberschnell
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N54 valves caked with carbon

I have a full post over on e90 post

I just picked up a CPO'd 08 135i I'm planning modding for track use. I had my mechanic clean out the valves as a starter.

Thought you guys would like to see what the carbon build up on these cars looks like at 44K mi on a DI engine.

No cleaning

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After BG carbon cleaning service (stage 1)

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After scrubbing (stage 2)

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      04-22-2011, 09:32 AM   #2
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Wow though it seems to be inline with what most N54 owners that have checked their valves experienced. I plan on cleaning mine at the 30k mark.
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      04-22-2011, 09:33 AM   #3
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Hmm, I wonder if Seafoam would be as effective at every oil change? I know the Mini guys do it and they are DI engines as well.
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      04-22-2011, 09:37 AM   #4
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wow, didnt think they would look like that till about 100k
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      04-22-2011, 09:38 AM   #5
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It adds charactor.
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      04-22-2011, 09:56 AM   #6
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That gunk is reducing a fair share of power. This DI has some plusses but this certainly seems to be a huge negative. I plan on using techron fuel additive more often and thinking about adding a meth kit to help keep deposits down.
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      04-22-2011, 10:04 AM   #7
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I have to believe that with so many new engines going the DI route that most service centers will soon have a quick and easier method of cleaning the valves/intake or at least doing preventative treatments during oil changes to keep the filth and muck down to a minimum.
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      04-22-2011, 10:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achtungE30 View Post
Hmm, I wonder if Seafoam would be as effective at every oil change? I know the Mini guys do it and they are DI engines as well.
I was getting ready to ask the same thing...
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      04-22-2011, 10:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHOOPS2 View Post
I have to believe that with so many new engines going the DI route that most service centers will soon have a quick and easier method of cleaning the valves/intake or at least doing preventative treatments during oil changes to keep the filth and muck down to a minimum.
Toyota seems to be on the ball since the Lexus engines have both direct AND port injection. The port injection should keep the valves clean.
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      04-22-2011, 10:43 AM   #10
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Very interesting, would changing the oil more often help? Say every 3k miles?
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      04-22-2011, 10:56 AM   #11
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It really has nothing to do with oil quality per-say

New oil or old oil will burn and cake on the back side of the valve no matter what.
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      04-22-2011, 12:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC6 View Post
That gunk is reducing a fair share of power. This DI has some plusses but this certainly seems to be a huge negative. I plan on using techron fuel additive more often and thinking about adding a meth kit to help keep deposits down.
Actually, fuel additive has no effect, since the fuel is directly injected downstream from the valves. The backs of the valves never see fuel - that's the problem. Seems like a regular cleaning with Seafoam or by hand is the only real solution. The Techron would probably still help keep the injectors clean. I don't know what the effect of a meth kit would be regarding carbon buildup.
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      04-22-2011, 01:51 PM   #13
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Here's the thread from the Mini forum
http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...t-r55-r56.html
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      04-22-2011, 01:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wadny View Post
Actually, fuel additive has no effect, since the fuel is directly injected downstream from the valves. The backs of the valves never see fuel - that's the problem. Seems like a regular cleaning with Seafoam or by hand is the only real solution. The Techron would probably still help keep the injectors clean. I don't know what the effect of a meth kit would be regarding carbon buildup.
I only use chevron and have always thought it would reduce carbon build up, I'm wanting to check it out for my self now...
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      04-22-2011, 02:02 PM   #15
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Anyone know what the average cost is for a valve cleaning? I'm planning to keep my 135 for a while, so I guess I'll need it eventually.
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      04-22-2011, 02:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InlineSix View Post
I only use chevron and have always thought it would reduce carbon build up, I'm wanting to check it out for my self now...


Fuel has no effect.
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      04-22-2011, 05:04 PM   #17
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Seafoam = NO !. Old fashioned elbow grease, fuel injection cleaner (used to break down the carbon deposits for easy cleaning) and solid mechanical aptitude is all it takes. We do this at the dealership all the time. If u have any specific questions feel free to PM me.
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      04-22-2011, 05:57 PM   #18
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Great thread OP! Carbon build up is the enemy of any DI engine.

I really want to buy a digital borescope/camera that will work with a N54/N55 motor. I just have not found any units cheap enough - yet. I don't know IF I would use that wire brush that you used. I think I would go with plastic picks so to not scrape the valves up too much. But that is a minor snip-et. I think I would also replace the spark plugs too. You need a special slim 14mm (12point) 3/8th's socket for that.

A good friend of mine(he goes by the user name: Doldonics on the Audi forum) has an Audi RS4. His car had only 40K miles when he did his carbon cleaning. He also used BG products - but he removed the intake manifold and let the valves soak for serveral days. Spraying down the valves twice per day... then after a day or two he would use a plastic tool to remove the carbon buildup. He has been using a OCC of his own design... but still he had some carbon buildup - probably from the first onwer of the car. He bought his RS4 used.

RS4 with intake manifold removed...


all buttoned up - custom OCC lower right...





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      04-22-2011, 09:40 PM   #19
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      04-22-2011, 10:11 PM   #20
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Would an oil catch can help prevent this, or is it unrelated?
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      04-22-2011, 10:19 PM   #21
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To some extent. I'm shopping for one now!
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      04-23-2011, 03:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aksundog View Post
Would an oil catch can help prevent this, or is it unrelated?

An OCC will help, but it will still occur over time. Long OCI don't help bc the oil gets diluted by gas and when the oil gets hot, the oil vapors (thru the PCV system) end up forming carbon like this. The vapors land on the hot valves and form deposits.
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