For us Manual transmission guys....some hope still exist.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

IIRC, when I was looking at the new Z3 and SLK, one reason to buy the BMW was that the SLK was automatic only - as was the rest of the MB line in the US at that time (ca. 1996). The stick option was added a few lears later.

Tom

You could be right because the oldest used manual I can find is 1999 but I worked at a gas station in high school where I remember speaking to a woman about her manual SLK. I worked there in 1998 I think (couldn't have been later than 1999 because that's when I graduated). Oh well...

[Battleship Potemkin]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

IIRC, when I was looking at the new Z3 and SLK, one reason to buy the BMW was that the SLK was automatic only - as was the rest of the MB line in the US at that time (ca. 1996). The stick option was added a few lears later.

Tom

Correct. The (non-AMG) SLK has been available with a manual since 1999. The AMG version is only available with sequential "manual" gearbox (IIRC).

On a personal note: The 6-speed manual in the 2004(?) C230 sport sedan was the smoothest I've ever driven, and I'm pretty sure the SLK & C-Class shared the same powertrain at that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_SLK-Class

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

What would be more interesting (read: sad) is 10 cars you didn't know you COULDN'T get in a manual. IS-F, GT-R, and most of the AMG cars to name a few.

truth but I wouldn't so much mind it if I could afford one of those AMG's

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I'm pretty sure you can get the C and SLK in manual.

EDIT: just checked the US website. You can indeed get the C and SLK in manual.

I spent a little bit of time looking at the C, and for some reason only the C300 is available with a standard transmission. Both the C350 and C63 AMG are ONLY available in slushbox form in the US. I don't get what's wrong with people - in Europe, I'm pretty sure sticks still greatly outnumber autos (at least per my informal observation).

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Am I stupid or do the odds not make much sense? Take the TL for example... it says there is a 5% take rate which means that 1 in every 20 cars is manual. How does that translate to odds of 6305 to 1?

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Yeah, that is screwy. I guess they meant the odds thing as a joke.

Originally Posted by Battleship Potemkin

What they mean is that of every 6305 cars sold (that's ALL cars, not just the TL) one is a TL with a stick.

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Ok, that makes more sense.

I'm actually not sure that's even right. I would say it probably involves the set number to be produced, the number of dealerships selling them and also the amount of people who will actually order them and you competing with them for 1 of the cars. They're only selling like 5000 of these cars a year, so they only made 250 manuals in that case. I would think those odds would only pertain to just the model they are talking about, not all cars sold in the US... but I also could be wrong.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

I spent a little bit of time looking at the C, and for some reason only the C300 is available with a standard transmission. Both the C350 and C63 AMG are ONLY available in slushbox form in the US. I don't get what's wrong with people - in Europe, I'm pretty sure sticks still greatly outnumber autos (at least per my informal observation).

I believe that the reason for this is that the European market gobbles up the more fuel efficient models and they also are more inclined to opt for the manual.

[Battleship Potemkin]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

I'm actually not sure that's even right. I would say it probably involves the set number to be produced, the number of dealerships selling them and also the amount of people who will actually order them and you competing with them for 1 of the cars. They're only selling like 5000 of these cars a year, so they only made 250 manuals in that case. I would think those odds would only pertain to just the model they are talking about, not all cars sold in the US... but I also could be wrong.

Passenger cars sold in the US in 2006: 7,667,066
Acura TL sales for the US in 2006: 71,348

Assuming the rate stays the same for whatever year's stats they're using, that means that 1216 (7,667,066/6305) manual equipped TL's were sold in 2006 out of 71,348 total. That's 1.7%, which sounds about right to me for a luxury brand. I know that the local Acura dealers around here don't carry manuals in stock (same goes for Lexus).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passeng..._United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acura_TL

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by Battleship Potemkin

Passenger cars sold in the US in 2006: 7,667,066
Acura TL sales for the US in 2006: 71,348

Assuming the rate stays the same for whatever year's stats they're using, that means that 1216 (7,667,066/6305) manual equipped TL's were sold in 2006 out of 71,348 total. That's 1.7%, which sounds about right to me for a luxury brand. I know that the local Acura dealers around here don't carry manuals in stock (same goes for Lexus).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passeng..._United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acura_TL

Ya I look like an idiot, I went back to where I saw 5000 and it said 2007 (October) so that was 1 month.

1216 sold out of 71k does sound about right... at least on the TL or TSX. I bought a TSX local with an MT in 07 and my dad also had a TL MT in 06. However Chicago is a large market so you're bound to find a few here and there.

Strange calculating they did to come up with these odds though.

[Battleship Potemkin]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

...Strange calculating they did to come up with these odds though.

Not strange, just lazy. They just divided the number of MT-equipped-of-whatever-model sold into the grand total sold and got their number. Clear case of spreadsheet abuse.

[UdubBadger]

[sb335is]

you can get a c and slk in manual but the clutch is hard as a rock (think mustang)

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Battleship Potemkin

Not strange, just lazy. They just divided the number of MT-equipped-of-whatever-model sold into the grand total sold and got their number. Clear case of spreadsheet abuse.

I think no matter how they calculated it, we can safely say that manual transmissions are a pretty small portion of sales for most models.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I believe that the reason for this is that the European market gobbles up the more fuel efficient models and they also are more inclined to opt for the manual.

When I was in Germany a few years ago, most cars were manuals. I saw a MB S500 parked on the street that was a manual. The Audi A6 wagon and MB E-Class taxi I took to and from the airport were both manuals. You'd begin to think that Americans really hate the act of driving.

[UdubBadger]

hahaha, true but again, think of the lifestyle difference out there, they get like 10 weeks of vacation every year, they live longer, they live healthier... it makes sense.

Here people bitch about traffic and not wanting a 6MT in the city. I grew up in Chicago home to some of the worst traffic known to man and out of the 10 cars I've owned, 8 of them have been MT (the two AT's I didn't have a choice as they were hand me down vehicles). Yeah my leg gets a little tired if I try driving down into the city at the wrong time of day but its not THAT bad. Living up here in Wisconisin I'd think more people would drive the MT but they don't. Driving around up here is nice, you get to move more that 500 ft between lights or stop signs, especially if you go like 3-4 miles outside of town. The test drive I took at the local BMW dealer was awesome, all country roads, 2 lanes, minimal stop signs... a drivers test drive if you will.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

When I was in Germany a few years ago, most cars were manuals. I saw a MB S500 parked on the street that was a manual. The Audi A6 wagon and MB E-Class taxi I took to and from the airport were both manuals. You'd begin to think that Americans really hate the act of driving.

It's baffling to me as well. I think that the US is different in that after WWII we were in an economic boom which brought about status symbols like a cadillac, olds, or buick which were anything but sporty and came with an "automatic shifter for smooth, luxurious driving!" There was an entire generation that just didn't learn how to drive a manual which means they never taught their kids how to drive a manual on the family truckster. Europe took a little longer to catch up and were driving smaller, more efficient, less expensive cars during most of that period, most of which were equipped with a manual trans. I made that whole thing up but it sounded alright in my head. I'm still a little woozy from the 998pt drop in the DJIA today...

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

It's baffling to me as well. I think that the US is different in that after WWII we were in an economic boom which brought about status symbols like a cadillac, olds, or buick which were anything but sporty and came with an "automatic shifter for smooth, luxurious driving!" There was an entire generation that just didn't learn how to drive a manual which means they never taught their kids how to drive a manual on the family truckster. Europe took a little longer to catch up and were driving smaller, more efficient, less expensive cars during most of that period, most of which were equipped with a manual trans. I made that whole thing up but it sounded alright in my head. I'm still a little woozy from the 998pt drop in the DJIA today...

Luckily the final drop was "only" 345 points!

By 1953, all of the US "luxury" cars including all Cadillacs, Lincolns, Buick Roadmasters, Packard Patricians and Chrysler Imperials were only available with automatics. And by 1973 when I needed a car with a large trunk, you couldn't even get a full size Plymouth with a stick!

Of course the Europeans have had higher gas taxes as well as taxes based on displacement - so it pretty much has always made sense for them to prefer the most efficient transmissions.

At least we can still order our BMWs with an MT.

Tom

[Cuz5150]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

Luckily the final drop was "only" 345 points!



At least we can still order our BMWs with an MT.

Tom

Amen brother! Amen!

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

At least we can still order our BMWs with an MT.

Tom

True enough, and at least in recent years we've seen a return of manuals in sedan models with sporting intentions, including Pontiac (even though it's now gone, the GTO and G8 GXP were both available with sticks), Caddilac, and even one Buick model.

Hopefully it stays that way.

[KingOfJericho]

Well, the GTO and G8 were both carry over models from Holden in Australia so I think it was more of an "eh, why not..." than a "we need to do this for the enthusiasts!"

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Well, the GTO and G8 were both carry over models from Holden in Australia so I think it was more of an "eh, why not..." than a "we need to do this for the enthusiasts!"

The only manual in a G8 was the top of the line GXP variant.
The regular V6 and V8 G8 only came with an automatic.
I think they would have sold more G8's if the non GXP had a manual option.
The G8 is a rather fine automobile, and handles very nicely for a big car.
If feels much much more like a BMW or Audi, due to it's suspension tuning, and nicely weighted steering.

Speaking of lifestyle choice and cars, I digress:
As much as it seems Americans hate the act of driving, it makes one wonder why the train and public transit systems are nearly non-existent with everyone wanting their own car.
The one thing I can't understand is why so many people own cars when they live in NY or Chicago. Traffic is a nightmare due to everyone thinking they need a car to drive 3-5 miles to newest trendy restaurant.
If I lived in the city, I'd take the bus, a cab, subway. And, if I wanted to get out of the city, there are some nice cars you can rent for the weekend.
Cars in the city get physically abused, constant scratches and dents due to tight parking. Engines that never get to full operating temperature, and never get driven at high rpm to keep the carbon from building up.
I'd NEVER buy a car from a city dweller.

[Xyloft]

Originally Posted by RPM90

The only manual in a G8 was the top of the line GXP variant.
The regular V6 and V8 G8 only came with an automatic.
I think they would have sold more G8's if the non GXP had a manual option.
The G8 is a rather fine automobile, and handles very nicely for a big car.
If feels much much more like a BMW or Audi, due to it's suspension tuning, and nicely weighted steering.

several times i have said the same thing. My friend has had an 06 GTO since new and it's still a really nice car. the G8 i've always liked ever since i came back from australia and saw the holden Commodore SS. the lack of a manual prevented me from ever taking the car seriously.

It's also one of the main reasons I considered BMW and will continue to conisider them.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by RPM90

The only manual in a G8 was the top of the line GXP variant.
The regular V6 and V8 G8 only came with an automatic.
I think they would have sold more G8's if the non GXP had a manual option.
The G8 is a rather fine automobile, and handles very nicely for a big car.
If feels much much more like a BMW or Audi, due to it's suspension tuning, and nicely weighted steering.

I actually really like the G8 and GTO. I've heard nothing but positive reviews and the styling is great IMO.

Originally Posted by RPM90

Speaking of lifestyle choice and cars, I digress:
As much as it seems Americans hate the act of driving, it makes one wonder why the train and public transit systems are nearly non-existent with everyone wanting their own car.
The one thing I can't understand is why so many people own cars when they live in NY or Chicago. Traffic is a nightmare due to everyone thinking they need a car to drive 3-5 miles to newest trendy restaurant.
If I lived in the city, I'd take the bus, a cab, subway. And, if I wanted to get out of the city, there are some nice cars you can rent for the weekend.
Cars in the city get physically abused, constant scratches and dents due to tight parking. Engines that never get to full operating temperature, and never get driven at high rpm to keep the carbon from building up.
I'd NEVER buy a car from a city dweller.

I lived in NYC and still work there. There are 30+ people in my office and not a single person drives a car to work. None of them even take cabs. The public transportation in excellent in NY so it makes no sense to use anything else. I don't know where you got the perception that people don't use it or that it is non-existant. I take it from CT every week and I can hardly find a seat on my train in the morning.

Zipcar is HUGE in NYC as well for the people who smartly do not own a car and want to get out on the weekends.