US Market 120si due to fuel prices?

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Unfortunately, its looking like from now on, any dinky incident in the middle east is going to be used as an excuse to jack oil prices through the roof, and I'm exceedingly tired of it. It appears to me that it may be wise to place a much greater emphasis on fuel economy in light of gas prices today exceeding $4.00 a gallon in California.

Normally, I would have never considered a 4 cylinder anything, particularly a BMW because of their wonderful inline 6 being such a good choice, but all of a sudden the idea of a US market 120si coupe and convertible are starting to make a lot of sense to me...particularly because of the application of new fuel saving technologies such as the automatic start-stop from Bosch appear to be limited to 4 cylinder engines at this point in time.

All the rumors I've heard concerning the US market 1 series so far have indicated that US market cars will be limited to the 6 cylinder engines...but again, its just rumors at this point.

Any views on this approach?


EDIT: This was originally posted as the 13 British sailors were taken hostage by Iran.

[Brookside]

R. I. P.



BMW's renowned inline 6-cylinder engine.

I think the trouble here is one of perception. The inline-6 for many people personifies BMW engineering. And it is a thing of beauty and power that I treasure. The note coming out of the exhaust is one of the most gorgeous sounds I've heard...up there with Church bells and the sound of waves breaking on the cliffs at Pemaquid Point, Maine.

I've got BMW's M54 w. manual trans. and I get around 20 city/27 hiway. It's an estimate, but a pretty good one, having owned the car for nearly 3 years.
I get immense satisfaction watching others pull up to the pump in their SUV's to pay $60-80 for a fill-up when my bill is around 1/2 that.

But, this gas crisis isn't going to go away anytime soon.
Factor in a fluctuating gas price that is based on avarice and speculation as much as the unsettled conditions in the Middle East and you have very good reasons to look at alternatives.

Right now my hat is off to Audi's 2.0 4 cyl. It's got an aluminum block, direct fuel-injection and a nifty little turbo that goes like smoke, beats 2012
EU emissions and gets very good gas mileage.

The 1-er coupe...the entire range of 1-series models, would easily be a great fit for a 4cylinder engine...and one I would seriously consider if it were available in N/A.

Maybe it's time to see BMW to turn their expertise from wringing the last ounce of power from the 6cyl. to concentrating on a more efficient and powerful 4-banger.

[kere]

Oh boy
7,7$ per gallon here in Finland and still driving with the 6 cyl...

[bum944]

I have a minority view, but I hope they bring the 4-cyl common-rail turbo diesel here. Although so far, only Mrcedes has the technology to meet California standards. The euro versions with water-pump and alternator cut-out tweaks are rated at 60mpg. And with the torque these have, it would still be a fun drive.

[spudw]

If it's fun and torquey, I don't really care how many cylinders. The most fun on 4 wheels, the Ariel Atom, has a Honda V-Tek or a GM Eco-tek (both 4-bangers) and blows the doors off just abount anything on the road. I've driven Minis and have had the time of my life. i6s are the jewel of the automotive world IMHO, but they are not the be all and end all. Everyone has to start thinking smart about engine choice...

[ibn]

well bmw released details on a new 4 cylinders turbo-charged diesel. producing 200 hp and almost 300 lb of torque. so this makes sense.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgerMitFries

Unfortunately, its looking like from now on, any dinky incident in the middle east is going to be used as an excuse to jack oil prices through the roof, and I'm exceedingly tired of it. It appears to me that it may be wise to place a much greater emphasis on fuel economy in light of gas prices today exceeding $4.00 a gallon in California.

Normally, I would have never considered a 4 cylinder anything, particularly a BMW because of their wonderful inline 6 being such a good choice, but all of a sudden the idea of a US market 120si coupe and convertible are starting to make a lot of sense to me...particularly because of the application of new fuel saving technologies such as the automatic start-stop from Bosch appear to be limited to 4 cylinder engines at this point in time.

All the rumors I've heard concerning the US market 1 series so far have indicated that US market cars will be limited to the 6 cylinder engines...but again, its just rumors at this point.

Any views on this approach?

The future 1er Cab.?? :iono:

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Well alright, here we go again. Gas prices just went up $0.45 a gallon this afternoon for no apparent reason. Anybody else interested in a 120si with start/stop technology, electromechanical power steering, alternator management with regenerative braking besides me?

[PACIFICONE2003]

I feel your pain WolfsburgerMitFries. I need fuel economy without losing driving dynamics. If BMW brings a diesel variant over to the US, that would be my engine choice. I drive 30,000+ miles a year.

[hector]

Originally Posted by bum944

I have a minority view, but I hope they bring the 4-cyl common-rail turbo diesel here. ... And with the torque these have, it would still be a fun drive.

+1, if it comes with a stick, although get the impression that there may be issues mating stick to diesel because of the torque.

[mam14225]

I agree with WolfsburgerMitFries.

Show me a 120Si with all that cool fuel saving stuff.

I've just enjoyed the BMW performance driving school in SC and was VERY impressed with the twin turbo 335i sedan with it's EPA rating of 30mpg highway and 300hp and lb-ft. vbmenu_register("postmenu_2091", true);

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Well alright. Gas prices made it to $3.09 a gallon for regular unleaded today. That's a new all time high. Anybody besides me interested in a 120si with start/stop technology, electromechanical power steering, alternator management with regenerative braking besides me?

[PACIFICONE2003]

Unfortunately, we live in a world of very uncertain times. With continuous US tensions with Iran, Venezuela, Russia, etc., with emerging nations like China and India, demand on energy will continually drive oil prices up. Over the last six years, we have seen crude oil prices go from $27'ish a barrel to a high last summer of $80'ish a barrel, a 300% increase. Crude oil prices are around $65 a barrel today. With that said, the cost of what fuels our cars will always continually go up. How fast? It all depends on supply and demand. I might be a minority. But, BMW, give me fuel economy without losing driving dynamics! BMW has publically stated that they will introduce diesel engines in the US by 2009. However, likely it will be in the SUV's and 5er. Will we see a diesel 1er? Time will tell.

[Brookside]

I'm plowing through this book...all my car buds are passing this back and forth amongst ourselves...and it's great but creepy reading.
Not dogmatic or green...more or less the story of oil from underneath the ground to your gas tank.
Full of great anecdotes, but also some real surprises....most of which paint a dismal future for oil reliance.

btw...April sales of light trucks and SUV's are back up and continue to sell better in the U.S. than passenger vehicles.

[PACIFICONE2003]

Thank you for this reference. I will definitely look into this book. I just don’t get why American love their heavy SUV’s. In Michigan, premium hit $3.40 a gallon this week. I would not be surprise if we see $4.00 within the next year or two. Honda, Toyota and the German “3” will all be entering the US market by 2009 with “clean” Diesel engines that meet the Bin 5 requirements. My wife dives a 2007 Yaris. This car is a good Point A to Point B car. I still desire driving dynamics! Part of my decision process for my next car will be a 40+ MPG minimum requirement. The bad thing, we just don’t have a lot of good options right now in the US. A couple Toyota models, a couple of Honda models, and the Jetta. None of which I am crazy about. Again, BMW, give me a diesel 1er!

[spudw]

Imperial Oil, Canada's biggest oil supplier, reportedly increased 1st quarter profits by 30% over last year. I'm for fuel efficiency as much as anyone, but I'm also pretty sure the current hysteria and associated high gas prices is driven by a supply situation that is being made to look worse than it is. There is an increased push in Canada for an equiry into alleged price fixing for gasoline...

[Jeff10236]

I would love a diesel 1 series. I think diesels with the new cleaner diesel technologies (low sulfur, catalytic converters, etc), especially adding some of the BMW stuff (automatic stop, the deal with the alternator and recharging on braking) are the future. Add in more availability of biodiesel and we can tell certain Kingdoms, Emirates, and Principalities in the Middle East to pound sand.

That doesn't mean the beautiful I6 needs to go away. It is smooth, powerful, and my new (to me) 2003 325i is actually a little more efficient with it than my 4cyl Hyundai Sonata it replaced was. I'm getting simliar mileage as my parents and my best friend's wife with their 4cyl Honda Accords. However, a few (efficient) traditional choices like the I6, some diesels and turbodiesels, hybrids, and (ideally) turbodiesel/hybrids and we'll be fine.

[Brookside]

Originally Posted by Jeff10236

Add in more availability of biodiesel and we can tell certain Kingdoms, Emirates, and Principalities in the Middle East to pound sand.

I wish it were so...


President Hugo Chavez Frias of the Republic of Venezuela addressing the U.N. General Assembly on November 10, 2006.


President Vicente Fox of the United Mexican States addressing the U.N. General Assembly on November 10.


President Seyed Mohammad Khatami of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Who Loves You Baby?


Top 15 Countries Importing Crude Oil Into the United States...(figures are for the month of February, 2007 in millions of barrels...)

1) CANADA 1,840

2) MEXICO 1,358

3) SAUDI ARABIA 1,185

4) VENEZUELA 1,115

5) NIGERIA 1,061

6) ANGOLA 451

7) ALGERIA 392

8) IRAQ 325

9) ECUADOR 178

10) KUWAIT 158

11) UNITED KINGDOM 137

12) BRAZIL 103

13) CHAD 87

14) COLOMBIA 73

15) LIBYA 63


source...Dept of Energy/US Govt/Photos UN.org

[Jeff10236]

OK Brookside, it is true that only 5 of the top 15 countries from which we import our oil are in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Kuwait, Iraq and Libya), but that is only a small part of the story.

The Middle East makes up a large percent of the world's oil production capacity. They export a lot of oil to Europe and Asia. Even if the amount of oil sent to the U.S. didn't change, a disruption of oil from the Middle East would have a huge impact on world oil prices and the world economy, including the U.S., because it is a globally traded commodity. Heck, we don't get any oil from Iran but we still end up paying another $0.25 at the pump every time Iran rattles the sabres because of what war with Iran (or a cut off of Iranian oil) would do to world prices.

Second, Saudi Arabia is #3 at 1,185,000,000 barrels of oil. That is a lot of butt kissing, and a major influence on our foreign policy (including when and where to go to war) right there.

Further, you can read what I wrote more generally as supporting moving away from having to buy oil from countries that aren't friendly to us, or are in unstable parts of the world. Venezuela is a good example of the first. Colombia, Chad and Angola are good examples of the second.

It's really a fairly simple (relatively) short-term fix too. Open up a bunch of nuclear plants, natural gas (of which there is plenty here) and "clean coal" technology power plants to move away from oil. For the "standard" family car type car (Accord, Camry, Taurus) there really is no reason not to move towards hybrids. For other "standard" cars, the newer diesel technologies or ethenol. Of course there will still be quite a few standard gas engines (hopefully, more like the Honda Civic 4cyl and BMW I6 which are quite efficient), but with many other cars using the more efficient technology, and many power plants switching away from oil, we could do a lot to move away from oil from non-friendly or unstable foreign countries.

The benefits will be compounded as well, because many other countries will probably do the same (as Brazil already has).

By diversifying our fuel needs, we'll be much less effected by instability in the Middle East and other oil producing countries.

[Brookside]

Jeff, I agree with you...I posted that list to illustrate that U.S. oil comes from everywhere.
And you are right...something like 70% of existing oil reserves are in the Middle East.
The Saudi's particularly are sitting on top of huge oil fields with incredible pumping capacity to glut or squeeze the international
market at a moments notice.

You talk about how we should change or modify our energy consumption...but how do things change when you have the major
American manufacturers pushing the most ineficient modes of mass transportation? And they do it by convincing men that
part of the identity of masculinity is to have an energy-wasting pickup truck. Hey, and it works - small trucks (pickups/SUV's)
still outsell cars in the U.S.
My next door neighbor has a humongous SUV. I've asked why he has it and he says for hauling...
the only thing I've seen him haul is his groceries. It's smoke, it's mirrors, and it's corruption.

For example, take the case of Chad...if ever there were a basket-case of a country then this is it. Before oil began being exported
by Exxon (Esso) in the 90's Chad was the 10th poorest country in the world. Now it is 4th. The people there have been screwed
out of reaping any benefits- most oil workers in Chad are American and Phillipino.
Chad signed a ruinous deal with the World Bank and IMF
to pay off loans at the expense of shutting down the few programs in place aimed at creating jobs.

You've mentioned someplace on the forum that your 3-series gets = or better gas mileage than the 4 cyl Asian import it replaced.
That's part of what BMW does- works to make some of the most fuel-efficient powerful internal combustion engines for the mass market.
For me, it comes down to proritizing values...and somewhere in the mix has got to be fun as well as responsibility.

[Jeff10236]

I figured you probably did agree with me overall, I just figured I should clarify.

As for the pickups and such, if we did more to move towards ethenol, diesel and hybrids I'm not sure it would matter.

Many GM trucks for instance are already flex fuel and capable of handling E85. More GM, Ford and Dodge trucks that can do flex fuel and it won't matter what mileage they get (as it will be an 85% cut in fossil fuel consumption per vehicle already). If the government provided more incentives to make the vehicles, and to the gas companies to provide the fuel, along with research into making ethenol from grasses (I believe they call it biomass) and it will only take a few years to be ready.

A diesel or turbodiesel can add 15-20% to a vehicle's efficiency, and add torque so they are better for towing and hauling. We already have the capacity, and once we move more towards biodiesel we can cut oil consumption even more (anywhere from 10% for B10 to 100% for B100). In cars, you can see 40-50mpg in economy sized cars, and 30-40mpg in midsized cars.

Hybrid technology is already coming down in price, and will do so more as more vehicles are made available in the technology. Many people still think of the ultra-efficient, but not so fun, Prius when they think hybrid. However, Honda in the Accord and even Toyota in the Lexus hybrids and Highlander went the other way. The Accord hybrid is a V6 with 4cyl gas mileage and V8 performance. The Lexus hybrids go for higher power levels and only moderate MPG advances in their versions. Even in trucks, they don't have to lose their hauling/towing ability when done this way (only Toyota has, the rest of the hybrid SUVs to date are little 4cyls with no real power).

I agree that some regular gas engine choices would be nice, when done in efficient designs like the BMW, Toyota and Honda engines. I think more alternatives should be made available and in numbers that make the technologies more affordable, but after that it is a market decision. Also, hybrids, ethenol, and in some cases diesels done right don't have to effect the 'fun factor' adversely.

[PACIFICONE2003]

Very well said.