No M1 at Geneva Motor Show - UPDATED

[sid33]

Originally Posted by bmwzone

You want an M, BMW offers the M3. That's always been BMW's best car - actually IMO the best car in the world - HANDS DOWN. But I can't afford one. Not everyone should. Remember BMW is supposed to be an elite/premium brand..

By no means am I discrediting the 1 series in any way. I waited a year for mine because I LOVE the car. Its the simple fact of the prospect of having an M car using the 1 series platform that has me and pretty much everyone else here excited. Id love to get an M3 , I think its a fantastic car , but I'm not willing to break the bank for one. So yes an M1 at a (speculated of course) $50k range with all that performance is very attractive for someone like me. Doesnt mean that I love the 135i I have now any less.

[Jaguar66]

Originally Posted by adc

You forget the E36 M3 which went through a significant engine change through it's production life (both in Europe and USA),

.

There was one change in the US M3 motor, between the 3.0L and the 3.2L engines, The horsepower stayed the same at 240 HP. I wouldn't call no HP increase a significant change. Torque was up 11 ft lb.

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=15

"How is the North American 3.2-liter M3 engine (S52) different from the 3.0-liter (S50 B30 USA)?
Unlke the Euro-spec S50 B32, the S52 powerplant is an evolution of the standard production M52 engine. However, it incorporates the following changes over its S50 B30 USA predecessor:
-Increased bore to 86.4mm (from 86.0mm) and increased stroke to 89.6mm (from 85.8mm) for a total displacement of 3,152cc (from 2,990cc)
-More finely balanced camshafts
-Valve lifters, springs and spring seats with reduced mass
-Revised intake and exhaust systems
-OBD II (On-Board Diagnostics, version II) compliance
-Horsepower unchanged at 240 hp (SAE) at 6,000 rpm
-Torque increased to 236 lb/ft at 3,800 rpm (up from 225 lb/ft at 4,250 rpm)
NOTE: E36 M3s equipped with the ZF five-speed automatic transmission are rated at 225 lb/ft of torque at 3,800rpm."

[adc]

Originally Posted by RobMason

There was one change in the US M3 motor, between the 3.0L and the 3.2L engines, The horsepower stayed the same at 240 HP. I wouldn't call no HP increase a significant change. Torque was up 11 ft lb.

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=15

"How is the North American 3.2-liter M3 engine (S52) different from the 3.0-liter (S50 B30 USA)?
Unlke the Euro-spec S50 B32, the S52 powerplant is an evolution of the standard production M52 engine. However, it incorporates the following changes over its S50 B30 USA predecessor:
-Increased bore to 86.4mm (from 86.0mm) and increased stroke to 89.6mm (from 85.8mm) for a total displacement of 3,152cc (from 2,990cc)
-More finely balanced camshafts
-Valve lifters, springs and spring seats with reduced mass
-Revised intake and exhaust systems
-OBD II (On-Board Diagnostics, version II) compliance
-Horsepower unchanged at 240 hp (SAE) at 6,000 rpm
-Torque increased to 236 lb/ft at 3,800 rpm (up from 225 lb/ft at 4,250 rpm)
NOTE: E36 M3s equipped with the ZF five-speed automatic transmission are rated at 225 lb/ft of torque at 3,800rpm."

Increased displacement, different intake/exhaust, more torque distributed lower in the RPM range are not significant changes in your opinion? Just drive the 2 cars, they feel very different...

Not to mention, for Euro models the differences were even bigger.


Either way, I was pointing out that over the lifecycle of various M cars of the past, BMW has made changes to the engines - increasing the HP or the torque, changing displacement - nothing was out of bounds or out of question. Not even the positioning within the lifecycle was a big issue - I believe on the E30 they made changes in the last year or two, the US E36 got it after just one year in production.

If you don't think my point is valid and want to hold on to your opinion, that's perfectly ok with me, I won't argue any further.

[Jaguar66]

Originally Posted by adc

Just drive the 2 cars, they feel very different...
I believe on the E30 they made changes in the last year or two, .

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=8

My '95 E36 M3LTW 3.0L performed better than the 3.2L cars, not necessarily due to the engine, but it was lighter weight, and had a higher rear end ratio, for more acceleration. RE 3.2L cars vs 3.0 L cars, you probably could feel 11 extra ft lbs of torque, my point was it was not a great deal of difference.

Sorry to say, no engine changes were made to the US spec E30 M3 over its 4 year run. Europe a different story.

There were very little other changes as well in the US. Later cars got a moon roof, rather than a sunroof, and a cd player was substituted for the casette player in later years.