BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-13-2008, 11:08 PM   #1
spudw
Major
spudw's Avatar
Canada
70
Rep
1,305
Posts

Drives: 2009 128i
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa

iTrader: (0)

If you were BMW

If you were BMW, how would you evolve the current 1er lineup for North America for the 2009 or 2010 model years. My 1er lineup (prices in US$) would be:

123i Coupe (200bhp, $25,000), true entry-level BMW, fewer standard features than current 128i, 16" rims...

130i Coupe (260bhp, $29,900)
130i Convertible (260bhp, $33,900)
Standard features would be ~the same as 128i, but xenons, CA and USB connection would also be standard. Same option packages as 128i, except sport package would be an '///M Sport' package.

M135i Coupe (more bhp, $39,900)
M135i Convertible (more bhp, $42,900)
Enhanced N54 motor, more aggressive ///M performance parts and badging, a true ///M model

With that lineup, BMW would offer a true entry-level at an entry-level price (123i), and capable and meaty mid-range model (130i), and a truly capable M variant that would play in the M3's sandbox.

Fire away...
__________________
2009 BMW 128i ~ Jet Black ~ Sport Package ~ Sunroof ~ USB Integration ~ Delivered on October 14, 2009
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2008, 11:21 PM   #2
Oregon
NRA Life Member, BMW CCA 30 year member
Oregon's Avatar
United_States
176
Rep
2,614
Posts

Drives: 04' M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oregon

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
1971 2002  [0.00]
2004 M3  [0.00]
2008 135i  [0.00]
I do believe had BMW offered an M135i, many on this forum, including myself, would have stepped up, bought into the concept and price bracket.
__________________
Resigned 1ADDICTS Moderator


“To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them.” – George Mason
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2008, 11:27 PM   #3
ScottyGams
Uber-Lee7 Member
ScottyGams's Avatar
United_States
45
Rep
1,440
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NYC

iTrader: (2)

are we not worried about crowding the model line?

plus, turbocharging an M seems wrong... better to have the NA 3.2L from the old M3 dropped in with an aggressive tune...

only my opinion though
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2008, 11:29 PM   #4
malves85
Second Lieutenant
6
Rep
255
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Feb 2008

iTrader: (0)

I would have definitely dished out the extra $$ for an M model. Hopefully lighter weight and more power. That would be one fine machine!
Ditch run flats, 350hp, 2k pounds, dual clutch etc..
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2008, 11:44 PM   #5
WaFu
Private First Class
8
Rep
146
Posts

Drives: M135iA
Join Date: Apr 2008

iTrader: (0)

I don't think BMW will bring out an M car with Turbo engine.. I still remember an ad on the E36 M3 '.... Torque is cheap ....'
__________________
2013 - M135iA - Apline White
Year One - 135i - Monaco/Lemon/Gloss - Sport/Prem/Cold/iPod/HiFi/HD/C.A.
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2008, 11:49 PM   #6
GT3
Track addict
5
Rep
233
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Apr 2008

iTrader: (0)

spudwest, great topic.

Here's my opinion:

N52 128i Coupe - 230/200 - $27,100
N52 128i Vert - 230/200 - $32,100

N54 135i Coupe - 300/300 - $33,100
N54 135i Vert - 300/300 - $38,100

N54 135 ///M Coupe - 350/350 with lower CW, upgraded suspension, chassis, brakes and M goodies - $44,900
N54 135 ///M Vert - 350/350 with lower CW, upgraded suspension, chassis, brakes and M goodies - $47,900

I tried to keep it pretty simple. Didn't want to add extra models that might cannibalize one another. I think a ///M version should go back to it's roots as a true hardcore club racer, not a heavier, more refined GT car. Prices I lowered across the board because I think BMW over-priced the line. I tried to keep the levels in perspective with the remainder of the BMW vehicle line up.

I agree, a turbo charged ///M car would be pretty controversial for BMW but hey, they don't care. It's BMW. They like to rock the boat. Just look at their design history. Bangle designs. Adriaan van Hooijdonk fires up a spliff. Says "hey Chris, it will all work out man" and signs off on it.

The industry goes crazy. The fanboys pass out. Everybody denounces them. Then every other manufacturer copies the said designs. They sell like hot cakes. Bangle and van Hooijdonk high five. Cash their six figure bonus checks. And fly down to Amsterdam for a week of hookers and dubious pastries.

Cycle. Repeat.
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 12:35 AM   #7
ScullyD
Senior 1Addict
ScullyD's Avatar
No_Country
5159
Rep
2,426
Posts

Drives: BMW iX, Porsche GT4 RS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2022 M5 CS  [0.00]
2022 BMW iX  [0.00]
Could they possibly build a V6 with the same engine block evolution that they used to build the V8 and V10's for the m3, m5, and m6. Cause that would be very cool, and very lightweight, dropped into an M1.
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 01:50 AM   #8
Dan203
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
136
Rep
1,592
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carson City, NV

iTrader: (1)

What about an ix version with AWD? I'd have probably bought one of those if it were available even if it was a tad slower. AWD gives people peace of mind when driving in winter conditions.

I don't think all the tweener models would go over well. Give people too many choices and they get confused. I think the current performance split between the 128 and the 135 is plenty.

Dan
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 02:14 AM   #9
GT3
Track addict
5
Rep
233
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Apr 2008

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
What about an ix version with AWD? I'd have probably bought one of those if it were available even if it was a tad slower. AWD gives people peace of mind when driving in winter conditions.

I don't think all the tweener models would go over well. Give people too many choices and they get confused. I think the current performance split between the 128 and the 135 is plenty.

Dan
Dan,

Nice idea. I completely forgot about that. A 135Xi would be a pretty interesting combination.

It would make economic sense also. I know that a lot of the current Evo, STi, R32 etc drivers are now cross-shopping the 135i. However, a lot will eventually stay away due to their need/desire for an AWD platform.

If BMW could squeeze in a 135Xi for $40K I think it would be extremely hard to ignore. AWD with a sweet TT engine. Awesome performance. Slick 6spd. Typical BMW build quality. Luxury interiors. Subjectively better aesthetics. Brand recognition. Scheduled maintenance.

With the new Evo MR and STi around $38K and the R32 around $35K, this would be a pretty hard package to ignore I think. I think it could possibly steal many a buyer away (except for the fanboys of course, not much you can do with them).
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 02:51 AM   #10
Dan203
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
136
Rep
1,592
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carson City, NV

iTrader: (1)

I actually came over form the Evo camp. I had my name on a list to get an Evo X MR. However after several delays I decided to look at other options and that's how I found the 135i. I ultimately "compromised" by coming over to the 135i by saying to myself "we don't get that much snow around here". Had there been an 135xi option I would have been all over it from day one.

Dan
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 02:57 AM   #11
rdkind62
Second Lieutenant
rdkind62's Avatar
United_States
16
Rep
203
Posts

Drives: 2011 335is
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO.

iTrader: (0)

I would have to take a long hard look at a diesel version and the xi version.
__________________
2017 M2 with every option in Long Beach Blue.
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 03:11 AM   #12
Dan203
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
136
Rep
1,592
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carson City, NV

iTrader: (1)

Diesel, really? Last time I looked diesel fuel was almost $0.30 per gallon more then premium gasoline. Seems like any fuel economy savings you might get from a diesel would be out the window with the added cost of the fuel.

Dan
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 04:00 AM   #13
GT3
Track addict
5
Rep
233
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Apr 2008

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
I actually came over form the Evo camp. I had my name on a list to get an Evo X MR. However after several delays I decided to look at other options and that's how I found the 135i. I ultimately "compromised" by coming over to the 135i by saying to myself "we don't get that much snow around here". Had there been an 135xi option I would have been all over it from day one.

Dan
Me too, other camp. 05 STi here. It's been a great car but it is finally up for sale. She will be missed!
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 06:29 AM   #14
buckwheat986
Lieutenant
12
Rep
468
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Mar 2008

iTrader: (0)

An XI version would weight more...or am I wrong about this?

If yes then I don't think we will see an XI version. (anyway, snow tires will get the job done)

I don't think we will see an M version either.

A diesel? Possible.
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 07:37 AM   #15
vivid
Captain
vivid's Avatar
England
39
Rep
822
Posts

Drives: 135i, 323i
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA.

iTrader: (0)

the car has just come out... BMW will not do any facelift nor major price change for a few years.
__________________

Current: 135i, 323i wagon.
Sold:GTI
Sold: FX45
Sold: E36 M3
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 08:40 AM   #16
spudw
Major
spudw's Avatar
Canada
70
Rep
1,305
Posts

Drives: 2009 128i
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivid View Post
the car has just come out... BMW will not do any facelift nor major price change for a few years.
That runs against precedent. How long was the E46 328i out before it became the 330i. And the E90 325i and 330i lasted were 2006 only before being upgraded to the 328i and 335i. History suggests that we'll see upgrades in either 2009 or 2010.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT3 View Post
The industry goes crazy. The fanboys pass out. Everybody denounces them. Then every other manufacturer copies the said designs. They sell like hot cakes. Bangle and van Hooijdonk high five. Cash their six figure bonus checks. And fly down to Amsterdam for a week of hookers and dubious pastries.

Cycle. Repeat.



The thinking behind my speculation is that BMW will stratify the lineup more than this year's. Everybody knows that the N52 in the 128i could easily produce 30 bhp more, as it currently does in the X3is and in the Euro 130i hatch.

There is also precedent for BMW waiting to introduce the real entry level models. Canada got a 323i in 2007 when the 3 Series lineup shifted to the 328i/335i models. I think in introducing a 123i, they could scrap the 323i and have an entry-level model that would actually make BMW a more accessible brand for first-time buyers.

The N54 demonstrates that BMW has mastered the turbo. I can't see why a ///M turbo would be a bad thing.

If they take my advice, we'll have a 3-model lineup instead of 2 models that cover off a broader spectrum. The 130i Coupe that I have speculated would be a very credible enthusiast model (slightly more so that the 128i), but an accessibly priced daily driver. The ///M model would push the limits as a halo model.
__________________
2009 BMW 128i ~ Jet Black ~ Sport Package ~ Sunroof ~ USB Integration ~ Delivered on October 14, 2009
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 08:44 AM   #17
buckwheat986
Lieutenant
12
Rep
468
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Mar 2008

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spudwest View Post
That runs against precedent. How long was the E46 328i out before it became the 330i. And the E90 325i and 330i lasted were 2006 only before being upgraded to the 328i and 335i. History suggests that we'll see upgrades in either 2009 or 2010.

Actually that has been the recent history...in the past BMW has waited about halfway thru a line cycle to do facelifts...about 2/12 to 3 years...

I think we will see a slight facelift on the 1 series for the 2010 model...just my opinion.
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 08:48 AM   #18
vivid
Captain
vivid's Avatar
England
39
Rep
822
Posts

Drives: 135i, 323i
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat986 View Post
Actually that has been the recent history...in the past BMW has waited about halfway thru a line cycle to do facelifts...about 2/12 to 3 years...

I think we will see a slight facelift on the 1 series for the 2010 model...just my opinion.
yeap... precedent is a mid-life face lift including a mild power increase. Now there are exceptions but on the whole there will be one update in a series life.
__________________

Current: 135i, 323i wagon.
Sold:GTI
Sold: FX45
Sold: E36 M3
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 09:57 AM   #19
mtla4
Lieutenant Colonel
Canada
42
Rep
1,756
Posts

Drives: Turbo Festiva
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (2)

I want a 123D thanks
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 02:17 PM   #20
GT3
Track addict
5
Rep
233
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Apr 2008

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat986 View Post
An XI version would weight more...or am I wrong about this?
You are right. Good point. It would make the 135xi even more of a boat. Maybe a regular potential buyer would overlook that for the added safety/versatility of AWD, an enthusiast not so much.
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 02:32 PM   #21
TagMan
Car Addict!!
TagMan's Avatar
United_States
60
Rep
1,303
Posts

Drives: '08 135i Convertible
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Malibu, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT3 View Post
spudwest, great topic.

Here's my opinion:

N52 128i Coupe - 230/200 - $27,100
N52 128i Vert - 230/200 - $32,100

N54 135i Coupe - 300/300 - $33,100
N54 135i Vert - 300/300 - $38,100

N54 135 ///M Coupe - 350/350 with lower CW, upgraded suspension, chassis, brakes and M goodies - $44,900
N54 135 ///M Vert - 350/350 with lower CW, upgraded suspension, chassis, brakes and M goodies - $47,900
Bingo!

That's the line-up for sure.

Diesel MUST be added, though. The increase in fuel economy is so freakin' dramatic, it would MORE than outweigh any increase in fuel costs. Diesel is imperative... and it would promote the further availability of diesel-powered vehicles in the USA... something that is greatly needed, and long overdue!
__________________
2008 /// Commemorative /// 6-Speed /// Titanium Silver /// Fully-Loaded /// 135i Convertible
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2008, 02:32 PM   #22
Genericuser1
Captain
22
Rep
661
Posts

Drives: M3 Convertible
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: usa

iTrader: (0)

I could see a 120d, a 128 and 135xi and perhaps a Tii.

Honestly BMW did too much “right-sizing” with the 1. If they offered the 250 or 265hp as the 130 I probably would have been satisfied with that. As it stands now the 128 is too slow for me but I could afford it, whereas the 135 is probably faster than I need (but I’d still love it) but out of my price range.

I bet there will be a sedan version after the next redesign.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:05 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST