Was "Battery Question" - Now Red Car On Lift warning

[markslc1]

Originally Posted by Craig in Alabam

Are you sure you have your voltmeter set to measure amps and not volts, and the leads plugged into the correct sockets? No offense, but I didn't know how to set my meter up to do this until I looked it up, so I thought I'd ask.

Craig

Thats fair. I put together a quick video to clear up how I am measuring things. Have a look and confirm my process.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Al6eqOzp-TL6iyTkjaMzbbxTQ3Cp

Very strange that the reading spikes and then disappears quickly. I'll add that I had this hooked up at the FRONT of the car (using a battery charger as power source) and was able to hold a reading. But using the standard battery approach isn't working.

[Craig in Alabam]

Well, I'm stumped! It looks like you have everything hooked up the same way I did, but I was able to hold a reading on my meter. I did notice that when the meter probe slipped off the negative terminal that it seemed to wake the car up and I'd have to wait for it to go into sleep mode again. But it still held the reading for the whole time. Sorry I can't be of more help.
What symptoms are you having that make you suspect a parasitic drain? Sorry if I missed that. It may help a more knowledgeable member figure it out.

Craig

[markslc1]

Originally Posted by Craig in Alabam

What symptoms are you having that make you suspect a parasitic drain? Sorry if I missed that. It may help a more knowledgeable member figure it out.

Craig

Car runs and drives fine. It just wont start if the car isnt started within 24 hours. It seems to go to sleep fine, but battery gets discharged pretty quickly if left sitting. No aftermarket stuff installed anywhere, so I fear some kind of stock part has failed creating parasitic drain. The video seems to indicate a draw of 1.0 or so briefly, which is above the standard 50 milliamp threshold indicating a draw.

Hoping for some other suggestions before breaking down and going to the dealer. It shouldn't be this hard.....

[Gizmo135i]

Originally Posted by markslc1

Car runs and drives fine. It just wont start if the car isnt started within 24 hours. It seems to go to sleep fine, but battery gets discharged pretty quickly if left sitting. No aftermarket stuff installed anywhere, so I fear some kind of stock part has failed creating parasitic drain. The video seems to indicate a draw of 1.0 or so briefly, which is above the standard 50 milliamp threshold indicating a draw.

Hoping for some other suggestions before breaking down and going to the dealer. It shouldn't be this hard.....

If it's going dead over night that would be a huge draw... are you sure the battery is good, the right type/size, and registered properly? Even a relatively big draw usually takes more time then that to kill the battery.

The fuse inside your meter may be blown, not sure if the settings on yours but usually if you exceed what ever amperage it is set to you could blow the fuse.

Do you have comfort access?

[Gizmo135i]

Originally Posted by markslc1

Car runs and drives fine. It just wont start if the car isnt started within 24 hours. It seems to go to sleep fine, but battery gets discharged pretty quickly if left sitting. No aftermarket stuff installed anywhere, so I fear some kind of stock part has failed creating parasitic drain. The video seems to indicate a draw of 1.0 or so briefly, which is above the standard 50 milliamp threshold indicating a draw.

Hoping for some other suggestions before breaking down and going to the dealer. It shouldn't be this hard.....

Also not trying to be a jerk but I've been working on Bmw for a long time, I'm telling you pulling the fuses is a bad idea.... it's going to drive you crazy because your just going to end up waking up modules and causing yourself headaches. This isn't a 93 chevy... that method worked on old cars but is not suitable on yours. Again, not trying to be jerk... I'd just rather not see you chase your tail on this

If it's an issue the glovebox isn't that hard to remove to access the fuse panel more easily.

[markslc1]

Originally Posted by Gizmo135i

Also not trying to be a jerk but I've been working on Bmw for a long time, I'm telling you pulling the fuses is a bad idea.... it's going to drive you crazy because your just going to end up waking up modules and causing yourself headaches. This isn't a 93 chevy... that method worked on old cars but is not suitable on yours. Again, not trying to be jerk... I'd just rather not see you chase your tail on this

If it's an issue the glovebox isn't that hard to remove to access the fuse panel more easily.

Agreed, I am chasing my tail at this point. Pulling fuses seems stupid because the car does wake up when you pull some of them, which starts the whole process over. So you are suggesting going for the voltage drop test across the top of each fuse? I can take the glovebox out, but I would really need the lower dash piece (right side of glovebox) to come out as well. I was contemplating that.

To reiterate, the battery tested good and is the proper BMW unit coded by the dealer 2 years ago. No comfort access

[Gizmo135i]

Originally Posted by markslc1

Agreed, I am chasing my tail at this point. Pulling fuses seems stupid because the car does wake up when you pull some of them, which starts the whole process over. So you are suggesting going for the voltage drop test across the top of each fuse? I can take the glovebox out, but I would really need the lower dash piece (right side of glovebox) to come out as well. I was contemplating that.

To reiterate, the battery tested good and is the proper BMW unit coded by the dealer 2 years ago. No comfort access

Not 100% sure on the 1 series... actually come to think of it I think the radio needs to come out iirc to get the glove box out (the e90 is easier), but I'm sure you could access it if you take the dash lower cover off and reach your hands in. Yes if you voltage drop the fuses and you find any voltage on them then there is current running through. (We're talking .001-.002 volts)

Thing is you should really make sure there is a draw before going crazy... maybe take the cover off the back of the meter and check the fuses.

[Gangplank]

I know this is a silly question, but have you pulled the codes? Bad FRM module?

[markslc1]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

I know this is a silly question, but have you pulled the codes? Bad FRM module?

Actually its a great question. I never thought to check codes on an electrical drain issue. this is what I have

Engine / Motor:
- Fault: DME digital motor electronics main relay, switching delay
- Code: 002ACC
- Fault: Power Management
- Code: 002DEC
- Fault: Misfire detection cylinder 3 in 2 Firing order
- Code: 0029CF
- Fault: Misfire cyl. 6
- Code: 0029D2
- Fault: Misfire detection error summation
- Code: 0029CC


the first one seems to indicate the main relay may be the problem. worth changing? where is it on the fusebox?

[julienjj]

The main relay is in the ecu box, it`s the big black cubic thing that looks like a relay

2DED is common with a worn battery (need replacement) and sometime corroded IBS wiring.

Are you able to read the IBS data ? (what diagnostic equipment do you have ?)

[markslc1]

Originally Posted by julienjj

The main relay is in the ecu box, it`s the big black cubic thing that looks like a relay

2DED is common with a worn battery (need replacement) and sometime corroded IBS wiring.

Are you able to read the IBS data ? (what diagnostic equipment do you have ?)

I see the relay there. Im using carly for my code reader. this was the detail it shared.

2ACCME digital motor electronics main relay, switching delay ***
Fault-Set 1 - ( 94776 km)

status Motorsteürung: 5.00 0-n
Supply driving encoder 1: 4.96 V
Voltage cl. 15 raw value: 0.94 V
Voltage cl. 87: 5.59 V

Fault-Set 2 - ( 94776 km)

status Motorsteürung: 0.00 0-n
Supply driving encoder 1: 4.96 V
Voltage cl. 15 raw value: 1.11 V
Voltage cl. 87: 6.91 V

*** 2DEC:Power Management ***
Fault-Set 1 - ( 94776 km)

Battery voltage of IBS measured: 14.00 -
Motorabstellzeit: 0.00 min
Status prior consumer registers part 1: 0.00 -
Status prior consumer registers part 2: 0.00 -

Fault-Set 2 - ( 94776 km)

Battery voltage of IBS measured: 8.82 -
Motorabstellzeit: 0.00 min
Status prior consumer registers part 1: 0.00 -
Status prior consumer registers part 2: 128.00 -

Fault-Set 3 - ( 94800 km)

Battery voltage of IBS measured: 14.00 -
Motorabstellzeit: 0.00 min
Status prior consumer registers part 1: 0.00 -
Status prior consumer registers part 2: 0.00 -

Is that helpful in any way?

I'll add that I tore the glovebox out and did a voltage test across all fuses in the box with the car asleep. the only fuse with a reading (negative .02) was fuse #50. I'm not sure what to make of a negative reading though. I cant tell what fuse 50 is for based on the diagram it looks like maybe wipers.

[Gizmo135i]

.02 or .002? Big difference. And if you switch the leads it should go to a positive reading... If the dme relay is sticking that could deff cause a draw, but also when the voltage drops low on these cars they tend to set all kinds of weird codes so that's a possibility as to that code as well.

The key is you really need to get a good read on the amperage going through the negitive cable weather via inductive amp clamp tool or a old school method with a dvom. This way you at least know for sure if you have a draw or not.

Also you should think about having that battery tested.

[julienjj]

8.82v is way too low. You might have a defective cell in your battery.

[Ric in RVA]

Originally Posted by julienjj

8.82v is way too low. You might have a defective cell in your battery.

12.00 is DEAD. 8.8 is DONE.

Resting fully charged 12 volt batteries are around 12.8-12.9 volts, and flat dead ones are at 12.0 volts, so 12.4 volts on a resting battery means it’s about 50% charged.

8.8 is VERY bad.

[markslc1]

Originally Posted by julienjj

8.82v is way too low. You might have a defective cell in your battery.

It appears that the IBS code shows voltage got as low as 8.8 right? Since then, I have had the battery tested twice as "good". Stock battery, coded properly at dealer. I can now go two days (from full charge) and it will start. Any longer and it wont. Could the battery test be wrong, maybe a dead cell in there that is fooling us?

[julienjj]

At this point if your battery has been discharged to such a low level on so many occasions it's probably just ruined, specially if it's not an AGM.

Replace, register and adjust the capacity/type if necessary.

Battery test are to be taken with a huge grain of salt. These automated tester are only has good as the data they are given; and so far my experience is that most place don't punch in the proper data for an accurate test and the fully automatic units are a guess.

[markslc1]

Originally Posted by julienjj

At this point if your battery has been discharged to such a low level on so many occasions it's probably just ruined, specially if it's not an AGM.

Replace, register and adjust the capacity/type if necessary.

Battery test are to be taken with a huge grain of salt. These automated tester are only has good as the data they are given; and so far my experience is that most place don't punch in the proper data for an accurate test and the fully automatic units are a guess.

Update. Your hunch was correct. Even though the batter tested good twice at Interstate batteries, it was failing.

I went on driving the car using a ctek charger in between and found that the car would only start once per charge cycle. Then later not at all even thought the voltage registerred 13.5 after a charge, an attempt to start would pull it down to 11. Lesson learned, just replace the dang battery before trying anything else. Runs like a champ now.

[Craig in Alabam]

That's great! I'm glad you finally got it sorted out.

Cheers!
Craig