BRracing Roll Cage. Feedback please!

[jeremydgreat]

Hey all. I've been considering the bolt-on roll cage offered by BRracing and wanted to see if anyone out there in 1Addicts land has any feedback on this product.

(I realize this isn't a "drivetrain" mod, but I couldn't find a better place for this)

BRracing announcement:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311813

BRracing product page:
http://brrperformance.com/project_cars.php?page_id=473

BRracing feedback from a couple 1Addicts members:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388448

I called BRracing and the guy there seemed friendly and knowledgeable. I will say, that the customer feedback makes me second guess them a little.

So, I'll pose the question to others:

Has anyone ordered and installed this product? What was your experience installing it? Did you need support from BRracing and, if so, what was your experience there?

[wolfson.tyler]

I have one and its great.

They were exceptionally helpful though the whole process. I had them install it and its fits perfectly. They really took the time to engineer this thing properly. There is maybe 1mm of clearance between the main hoop and the headliner.

The car is significantly stiffer as well. I find my self lifting a wheel when I enter steep driveways often

The only thing I had trouble with was fitting 4 wheels/tires in my car with it in. I have found that I had to remove my backseats in order to carry wheels to the track. Doesn't bother me at all but I know some people out there are buying it because they plan to put the xbrace in and out and actually use the backseat...

overall great people and a great product. feel free to pm me if you have any questions about it or them.

[BerkTechnology]

I'd like to see how they tie it into the body of the car, especially at the rear shock tower area. Is it a 100% "no-weld" roll bar?

[Dmacc]

BRracing is literally two minutes from my house, and I have nothing but positive things to say about their customer service and their help. I've had multiple items installed by them on my car. The owners Bruce and Rob are great guys.

As for the roll cage, it's a carefully designed and manufactured piece. Bruce has had it on his 135 for over 18 months and the ability to have it bolt in and out makes it so useful for the daily driver who goes to the track occasionally.

The fit is perfect, and I would rate this product a 10 based on how much development and functionality the piece has.

[jeremydgreat]

Originally Posted by BerkTechnology

I'd like to see how they tie it into the body of the car, especially at the rear shock tower area. Is it a 100% "no-weld" roll bar?

The best pics I've seen of it, are from their original post here- I'd love to see some customer pics though. Anyone care to snap a few? Apparently a lo of these have been sold so I'd love it if someone could upload some pics!

[jeremydgreat]

Originally Posted by wolfson.tyler

I have one and its great.

They were exceptionally helpful though the whole process. I had them install it and its fits perfectly. They really took the time to engineer this thing properly. There is maybe 1mm of clearance between the main hoop and the headliner.

The car is significantly stiffer as well. I find my self lifting a wheel when I enter steep driveways often

The only thing I had trouble with was fitting 4 wheels/tires in my car with it in. I have found that I had to remove my backseats in order to carry wheels to the track. Doesn't bother me at all but I know some people out there are buying it because they plan to put the xbrace in and out and actually use the backseat...

overall great people and a great product. feel free to pm me if you have any questions about it or them.

Would you mind snapping a few pics for us? That would be awesome!

[J5isalive]

How functional/safe is this bar? will it support a roll over or is it just a harness bar....

My main fear is, i get Recaro Pole Position sears, harness', and this bar.....roll the car, and snap my neck cause i roll over and the roof collapes on my head and my harness' won't allow my body to fall forward... Hows that for a vivid image? haha

[jeremydgreat]

BRracing said that they also have a similar bolt-on model for Porsche and a guy rolled his car a few times down the track- roll bar held up. Also said that this bar connects in better points then that Porsche bar.

I guess I have to take them at their word there. Anyone here familiar with roll cage fabrication? I just always try and get a second opinion when it's something important. And not having my head impaled by a loose roll cage during a wreck qualifies as important in my book.

[BerkTechnology]

Originally Posted by J5isalive

How functional/safe is this bar? will it support a roll over or is it just a harness bar....

My main fear is, i get Recaro Pole Position sears, harness', and this bar.....roll the car, and snap my neck cause i roll over and the roof collapes on my head and my harness' won't allow my body to fall forward... Hows that for a vivid image? haha

hard to tell how functional it is without seeing how it mounts to the chassis. It looks to be designed as an actual roll bar, not just a harness bar. So it will offer you some rollover protection. From what their pictures how it looks like a well made setup, just would like to see how it's tied into the car.

Here's my cage built by Louie of LCON Fab.

As you can see the bars are welded into the frame rails of the car. Notice how it sits on 1/4" thick baseplates that are welded onto the chassis, then the tube is welded onto that plate. This spreads the load in the event of an impact.






And here's a good shot on how it is tied into the floor. Again notice how the boxes on the floor give the structure lots of surface area. If you don't have baseplates or boxes the tubes will literally punch a hole through the relatively thin floorpan.

[brracing]

Happy to answer any questions about the bar and its use.
And, happy to not "overstate" the qualities of the bar....this is about safety, and we have no need to oversell the capabilities.
As I stated in the original post that we did on this bar, there is no substitute for a full welded in cage for safety. The normal group sanctioning body rules have had time tested results to prove out what works and what doesn't. At the same time, we have taken all that info and knowledge, and our past racing experience (since we have been racing at the Club and Pro level for 17 years, and have many wins and championships to prove that we are not just people who show up, we play to win.......see even our most recent results at the Global Tuner Grand Prix with out BMW E82 135i, where we finished 2nd in class, only to lose to TCKline in his Porsche.
Now....on to the bar. We had set out to create a full roll bar and harness bar, with X-brace and down bars, and a near shock tower brace that was COMPLETELY bolt-in, and uses all factory mounting bolt locations. No drilling, no fabrication, no welding necessary.
The tolerances are very tight in all areas.
These are the pieces
- main hoop w base plate and side anchor points
- harness bar (U shaped to allow for full use and articulation of the front seats)
- down bars that connect to the shock tower brace
- X bars, part of the down bar, so that it is all one piece for easy install and removal if desired
- shock tower brace (which actually mounts between the rear bulkhead areas of the rear seats, just below the actual tops of the rear shock tower).

The objective
- complete bolt in
- has harness elements (has a click-in location for the lower outer lap belt, horizontal harness bar for the shoulder sets)
- uses standard factory mounting locations that have already been reinforced
- adds secondary bracing where necessary
- has been designed to absorb the impact of a roll over....but, our unit has never seen an actual roll over in the BMW....we have in other cars of ours, but not yet in a BMW that we know of. But, it has all the full engineering to triangulate all energy transformations from a roll over.

It mounts to the base floor for the main hoop with a large base plate, which is bolted to the car in two directions for stability and strength. Thru the main floor thru an existing OEM drain hole, with a backing plate on the underneath side as well, and to the side frame rail where the stock seat belt fastening point is located.
The shock tower brace is mounted to the rear bulkhead, secured on each side by OEM mounting locations where an existing bulkhead brace exists....hence, we replace that with a stronger metal plate, and attach the shock tower brace to this. In addition, we made the base of the plate rest against the cross bulkhead of the car, another really strong piece in the car. This would help prevent flex of bow if energy were transferred from the main hoop down thru the down brace to the shock tower brace, and then to the mounting points....this energy would then be transferred to the cross brace of the car, essentially making it like a weld in location.
The rear shock tower brace sits just behind the rear seats, so that, should you ever want to remove the down bars / X-brace, you could, and still use the rear seats w the main hoop and shock tower brace in place.

This bar is in use in my daily driver today, has been there for 18 months, was in place for our competition events, and I drive A LOT of driving events w this car. I place my life in this car, and also use this car for driving instruction. I have full confidence in this bar (and if someone wants to know my background....here is a small sample - undergrad engineering degree from UCLA, in mechanical and systems engineering, minor in Math and Linear Algebra, multiple Master degrees...so, I'm not just a pretender at understanding physics).
BUT, this bar has NOT been subjected to stress tests or roll-over tests, and we are making no claims as to what it will support....all buyers assume their risk.
Here are some more pics, and if you want more, happy to shoot whatever anyone needs -
Bruce Todd
BRracing
Owner

[brracing]

Just for the heck of argument, here is a pic of a roll bar from the Essen show this week in Germany, and it uses the exact same mounting point and connecting point fabrication elements as our bar. And, if someone would want, just like in this bar, where there are bends in the main hoop (which is the only bar that has any bends in our design), we could add the supporting plates or reinforcement bridges, or stress plates....or whatever you want to call them.

Enjoy...

I can also show other bars, designed by other Vendors/Suppliers, that have been proven in the market, and have elements that are not as strong as ours, nor as easy to use and install or remove.

Our material is full 4130 Chrom-Moly, fully TIG welded. We do not use any DOM mild steel.

Bruce
BRracing

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by jeremydgreat

Hey all. I've been considering the bolt-on roll cage offered by BRracing and wanted to see if anyone out there in 1Addicts land has any feedback on this product.

Just be aware that you're making a significant compromise vs a weld-in system in both strength and rigidity.

[BerkTechnology]

BR your bolt in roll bar is as nice as they come for a bolt in part. I wouldn't use that show bar above to highlight anything. That piece wouldn't pass tech with the way that the main hoop is bent. Your bolt in bar is safer than that one.

My personal material preference with all safety equipment is DOM mild steel. More and more organizations are requiring certs for post weld heat treatment on chromoly bars. Not very easy to do on a full cage!

[jeremydgreat]

If anyone is interested, I found another pic of the roll bar.This shows the connection point behind the seats really well:

[MrBlonde]

I've got the BR bar in my car, it's great.

[jeremydgreat]

How about some pics MsBlonde? :-)

[dsm 335xi]

TC Kline's 135i at Oktoberfest

[MrBlonde]

Originally Posted by jeremydgreat

How about some pics MsBlonde? :-)

[jeremydgreat]

Wow thanks!

Side note: Euro headlights look so much better than our yellow ones.

[cools20]

anyone make a video of the installation process?

[froop]

Originally Posted by cools20

anyone make a video of the installation process?

That would be interesting if there were in fact any videos but it's something that I doubt. I have the bar installed in my car but I didn't do the install. It was there when I purchased it. In saying that, I've had quite a close look at it as I've disassembled it and re-installed portions of it when I stripped and re-installed the interior of my car.

It requires some modifications to the trim on either side of the trunk in order to fit the rear strut bar as well as cutting into the carpet just behind the front seats where the main hoop baseplates are installed. The bolt for the baseplate extends down through the floor of the car and there is a nut on the other side so a hole has been drilled through the plastic undercar floor pan.

It's a big job to install but I can't see why it wouldn't be DIYable with the right tools and knowledge.

The only thing I can say is that the eyelets welded onto the strut bar, hoop and cross bracing don't really match up on mine. It required a lot of bending, forcing and a ton of hammering in order to get it to fit so I could screw the bolt through. I spoke to the installer and he told me that he jacked up one side of the car in order to get the eyelets to match up.

[kobeballer96]

does this work on a 128i I haven't seen a thread with one. I was planning on purchasing one soon.