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      10-31-2010, 09:39 AM   #45
theblackangus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evice View Post
This discussion always turns into same previously discussed points, and because of that I don't see any value in it anymore until we see the real car. Modded vs unmodded etc.

However, we can discuss why would a buyer would want to buy 1M while there are really heavy contenders out there. Considering you don't care about backseats, and the price point is around bare-bones $45k, you want a performance car out-of-box, you don't care about modding.

What I am trying to point out is, this car doesn't seem to have at least "1" uber selling point compared to other cars. At least, they have yet to show it to us if there is one.

Ask yourself the questions below if this car is offering anything in these categories;

Lightness: Fail.. not light around 3400lbs.
Performance: Mediocre ...around 340hp, hopefully eager to Rev. not likely.
Options package: Fail.. expected to same as other 1ers.
Balance: Check/Mediocre...Expected to be handling well, but not creating wonders.
Seats: Fail.. Same as 1ers

Now consider these cars;
- 1 year of Porsche Cayman S
- couple years of Z4M
- 1 year of E92 M3
- Mustang 5.0
- Lotus Elise.
- Add to the list if you can think more.

Porsche Cayman S: Ultra performer, brilliant balance!
Z4M Coupe: Proven engine, light(er)
E92 M3: Tasty..V8
Mustang 5.0: Price point, acceptable OOB performance.
Lotus Elise: Light as f#$@, very nimble.

And this list gets abit more complicated when you consider beyond USA where you can find cars like Audi TT RS etc.

So how the heck BMW will sell this car to the younger generation?

I know how;

Create a hype about the car thru splendid marketing then make it limited production because you know you can't sell more than that number when compared to other contenders. Call it a success.

Most of those cars are not in the same price point if new. Comparing new to used is silly, lets just stop. If we want to compare new to used start a dedicated thread. Of what you have mentioned above only the Mustang is in the same price point when new, and surely does not have the handling of the 135, let alone the 1SMC. (Waiting to see how the 302 fares in the handling dpt.)

Cayman S - Expensive new 60K +
Z4M - Poor reviews on handling and balance. (Have driven and didn't like, I'd take a new vette over a used Z4M for the price.)
M3 - Expensive
Mustang - Driven, good car but handles poorly and engine response isn't strong lower in the power band, but sounds very nice.
Elise - Expensive, not in same performance category, needs to be the Exige. Then add about 10K to expensive.
Audi TTRS - Again cost? Most likely mid 60's as the base TTS is 47K.

Also if you are throwing out competitors in the price range....
350z - Similar cost/performance.
Corvette C6 - Good if you like them, most worthy competitor at the price point.

Simple fact is that most looking to buy a 1SMC are looking for a NEW car, not a used car. The most likely reason is warrantly, and reliable power from the manufacturer.

I don't disagree that the cars above are good cars, but if you want a new car and not a pile of someone else's problems (and modded problems) none of the cars you listed above are an option.

If you are worried about stop light to stop light, track day, and mods, get/build something like the Ariel atom and have a supercar experience.

And 1 more point. Honestly if you were looking at used, why would you get an 08 Cayman over an 06 911 Carrera S for the price as they are about the same price (and still more expensive than a new 1SMC most likely.)

Last edited by theblackangus; 10-31-2010 at 09:50 AM..
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      10-31-2010, 09:53 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Safety and amenities add weight. Modern cars in this price point are heavy.
I believe the Lotus Elise/Exige has models in this same price range and weigh around 2,000 pounds (with fewer amenities to be sure).
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      10-31-2010, 09:58 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant View Post
I believe the Lotus Elise/Exige has models in this same price range and weigh around 2,000 pounds.
This is not correct.
1. The Elise does not have the same performance as the 135 and costs more by a few thousand dollars.(47$ base if I recall currently on a current MY)
2. The Exige has a similar performance profile but starts around 60K.

You show me a new Exige for 45K and Ill buy it. =)
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      10-31-2010, 11:03 AM   #48
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Woah - everyone is getting emotional here - looking at all the pricing though. May be I should move to the US; cars are so cheap.
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      10-31-2010, 11:42 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
Woah - everyone is getting emotional here - looking at all the pricing though. May be I should move to the US; cars are so cheap.
Especially after you let someone else take the 2yr hit.

I never have and never will by a new car. There are plenty of 2yr old cars out there that were hardly used and are 40% less than new. You have to be an idiot to by brand new cars unless they are $10k-$15k new.

T
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      10-31-2010, 12:42 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mangler View Post
You have to be an idiot to by brand new cars unless they are $10k-$15k new
Then call me an idiot... Or as I see it, an enthusiast. I fully accept the economic "mistake" of buying (leasing) new, but that is not the point. I personally enjoy driving BMW's latest offerings and look forward to the 1M next summer should production numbers work in my favor.
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      10-31-2010, 01:09 PM   #51
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Regarding the new v. used, I'm willing to pay to have a brand new car that no one has beat on. I don't want to puchase a car with evidence of wear and tear. I can understand if you're stretching to buy the most car that you can afford, or you're looking at the purchase primarily from a financial viewpoint, it makes sense, but car purchases for me are not about making financial sense. They're largely emotional. I'd rather spend the extra money on new. I don't really buy toys for myself, other than a new car every few years, so I'm willing to be a little frivilous.

If I had a bigger garage and had the time to maintain multiple cars, I would be very interested in the Cayman S or Lotus as a toy (maybe even used low miles). However, I don't want to deal with more than my and my wife's cars, so I need a daily driver that's a blast to drive but is reasonably practical. I gave some thought to the M3, but I'm not excited about owning a gas guzzler (I was surprised to see its subject to the gas guzler tax), and I want something noticeably smaller and lighter than my 335xi. However, it is tempting.

The Mustang's style and interior quality just don't do it for me, but its a tremendous performance bargain.

I'm willing to spend more for the right car, but based on the research I've done so far, the 1M fits the bill best for me. The reviewers have all said its a blast to drive, I can squeeze the kids into the back seat for shorter trips, and its reasonably equipped. Honestly, if the 135i had a better suspension, I'd be pretty happy getting one of those.

If I can't get a 1M, I'll probably buy a 135i or 335i (or maybe even hold onto my car) until the next gen M3 comes out.

I see the attractions of all the cars listed, and understand the logic about not taking the first year or two of depreciation, but for me personaly a new 1M will give me the most satisfaction. For those of you who buy any of the other cars, enjoy! I'm sure you'll have fun. Hopefully enough fun so you won't feel the need to diss other peoples choices or call them an idiot.
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      10-31-2010, 03:26 PM   #52
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I wonder how the Berk 135i would do on the Ring.

To think this 1M will cost less than the limited production Performance F1 135i's that were sold in Switzerland.
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      10-31-2010, 04:06 PM   #53
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For $50k Boss 302 Leguna Seca will destroy 1M... GT runs with M3 according to Motor Trend.
Boss 302 Leguna Seca will turn that dial to 12...
- 14 inch Brembos
- Recaros
- high revving V8 power (many of you purist here like that)
- Ford Sync (any decent audio/bluetooth/ipod integration will be added cost options on 1M)

Last edited by amdmaxx; 10-31-2010 at 04:19 PM..
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      10-31-2010, 05:03 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amdmaxx View Post
For $50k Boss 302 Leguna Seca will destroy 1M... GT runs with M3 according to Motor Trend.
Boss 302 Leguna Seca will turn that dial to 12...
- 14 inch Brembos
- Recaros
- high revving V8 power (many of you purist here like that)
- Ford Sync (any decent audio/bluetooth/ipod integration will be added cost options on 1M)
Couldn't care less if the Mustang 'destroy's' the 1M. I for one, do not cross shop BMW with Ford.
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      10-31-2010, 05:21 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblackangus View Post
The 1M IS the car it is supposed to be at the price point. What NEW car at the price point has better performance, looks, or heritage?
If the price point was that of the M3 then it would be faster and better.

The problem seems that people want a supercar for a poppers price, which simply isn't going to ever happen.
I disagree... BMW and the M division always claim to build the best cars possible etc etc. The 1M was ALWAYS a comprimise. It would not take much cost to raise boost a little and give a few extra hp. Think about it, the 1 series is lighter, and smaller than the 3. If BMW and M division can't make it faster than a heavier car then they don't deserve to be in business.

They are making this car slower than the M3 on purpose. I would happily pay a few extra grand for a 1M that was built with the same intent the M3 was. But it isn't...

As I said, it will be a good car. It will most likely beat anything in its price point. But it will NEVER be as good as it could be.
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      10-31-2010, 05:24 PM   #56
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^^^Same as the Cayman.
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      10-31-2010, 06:28 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
Woah - everyone is getting emotional here - looking at all the pricing though. May be I should move to the US; cars are so cheap.
Very true sparoz. Especially now that the US $1 = AU $1

I also posted this in another thread but I'll say it here too... the price we are paying in Australia for the 1M alone is cheaper than buying both the 1M as your daily and the M3 as your weekend car in the USA!!

If I lived in the States it would be a no brainer, I would happily pay a 10-15k premium over the 135i. My 135i has about that much worth of factory options on top of it's base price
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      10-31-2010, 07:05 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW86 View Post
Very true sparoz. Especially now that the US $1 = AU $1

I also posted this in another thread but I'll say it here too... the price we are paying in Australia for the 1M alone is cheaper than buying both the 1M as your daily and the M3 as your weekend car in the USA!!

If I lived in the States it would be a no brainer, I would happily pay a 10-15k premium over the 135i. My 135i has about that much worth of factory options on top of it's base price
Yeah, it is annoying that we have to pay that much for options, but I still like the NCO on your car on your Avatar.
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      10-31-2010, 07:06 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula M View Post
if you are looking @ hp figures, you don't understand this car.[/I]
Yes I am looking at HP figures, that's why I suggested Lotus Elise. Wakeup. What I'm trying to say is, GIVE ME 1 or 2 DARN good selling point for this car, that's puts it ahead of the similar competition, besides being Bimmer.
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      10-31-2010, 09:59 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evice View Post
Yes I am looking at HP figures, that's why I suggested Lotus Elise. Wakeup. What I'm trying to say is, GIVE ME 1 or 2 DARN good selling point for this car, that's puts it ahead of the similar competition, besides being Bimmer.
Positives:
Limited Build should equal "better" retained value
It is a modded (factory of course) car out of the box
It will outperform an out of the box 135i
The price premium in the States is very small $, 135i -> 1M (not so in Aus, ~$40k - $50k US Dollars)
It comes with a factory M badge (more deserving I would think than say an X5 or X6)
It will look h0rn with fat 19's and pumped guards
Limited slip diff

lots of little things but all positive as far as I see things........
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      11-01-2010, 05:55 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evice View Post
Yes I am looking at HP figures, that's why I suggested Lotus Elise. Wakeup. What I'm trying to say is, GIVE ME 1 or 2 DARN good selling point for this car, that's puts it ahead of the similar competition, besides being Bimmer.
Have you driven an Elise? Fantastic track car but certainly not a car I'd call a daily driver. Apples and oranges. Elise is not a competitor to the 1M.

As far as selling point...the 1M will be 95% of an M3 at ~75% of the price.
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      11-01-2010, 08:10 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
Yeah, it is annoying that we have to pay that much for options, but I still like the NCO on your car on your Avatar.
Lol at this
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      11-01-2010, 07:07 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by BMW86 View Post
Lol at this
OK, I'm sure I'll prove my naivety, but here goes: What's "NCO"? The girl?

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Well, you can forget all that. The new car is fitted with a turbocharged straight six. Turbocharging? In an M car? That’s like putting gravy on an ice cream.
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      11-03-2010, 09:49 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theplanner View Post
I agree with your logic here, notwithstanding, the reliability and less workshop time when it is modded.

But interesting that you would sell the M3 for a 1M, what are your reasons?
If it were me, I stick to the M3
.
Well, if I had an M3, I wouldn't bother selling it to be honest. I am in the market for a M car, and this just happened to catch my attention and got me feeling all giddy inside, lol.
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