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05-10-2016, 10:12 PM | #45 | |
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08-21-2016, 07:53 AM | #46 |
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Installed a fair few of these bushings and have made some improvements to the tool.
One of the main issues was the front two bushings were very difficult to remove. The tool needed a piece of wood to support the PVC pipe which made it deform and the pulling force wasn't straight. This led to many tool breakages if the bushings were stubborn. This all stems fro mteh fact that the bushings have a lip that covers the subframe so a regular pipe of the correct diameter cannot be used to pull out the bushing. The rear bushings are much easier to remove and the PVC pipe is much more successful at removing that bushing. The only problem is sometimes the bushing is a little stubborn and the PVC pipe can deform and start to slip off the subframe. This can be alleviated by applying sideways pressure on the impact gun while the bushing is being pulled out, but ideally a metal tool is required. The proper tool is crazy expensive but gives a good reference of the type of tool required. The bushings have a lip but have two cutouts where the special tool can mount to the subframe: Koch Tools Part #: KT20312 or KT20436 would be suitable: Much too expensive! List price is $300, great if you are running a business but its not really feasible for a DIYer Heres what I have come up with: 1. Modified Fuel pump tool Used for the front bushings, adjustable width to fit the subframe and small enough to fit in the bushing cutouts. The fuel pump tool has a 1/2 square drive that I have just drilled out with a 12.5mm drill bit. This tool is a forged piece and is a fairly strong part. I have machined off the face of the legs so the edges are as sharp as possible (to avoid tool slippage). If no machine tools available, an angle grinder or bench grinder will do the same thing. 2. High tensile M12 threaded rod with high tensile nut and M12 coupling nut The M12 coupling nut (effectively a long nut) is tightened against a normal high tensile M12 nut. This fixes the nuts onto the threaded rod and is removable if the nuts ever need to be removed and reused. I found with the crappy bunnings galvanized threaded rod it would break easily. High tensile rod is much stronger, although even the high tensile rod can strip if not lubed up with heavy grease. Without the grease the rod will gall up and strip pretty easily. These threaded rods are pretty much consumable items so its worth having a few backups. Ideally M14 or M16 rod would be better as the threads are larger and would be stronger. 3. M12 nut and washer This is a custom part that has been machined on my lathe. I used one of the coupling nuts (shown in previous photos on the threaded rods). I machined half of the length coupling nut round, machined out a matching hole in a 10mm thick washer and press fitted them together. This ensures the nut is concentric with the washer, which reduces stress of the threaded rod. The coupling nut is much longer and allows for double the thread engagement vs the nut I was using before. The threads span from the top of the nut all the way to the bottom of the washer. Press fitting them together means its quite snug, the nut must remain stationary, when the tool is in action the pulling force holds the washer against the subframe bushing, preventing it from spinning. This means you don't need to hold the top with a spanner until the bushing is almost fully out, making the precedure much easier. The problem I had before is that the thread engagement of a single nut was that too much pressure was put on the threads, stripping them out easily. 4. 100mm galvanized pipe Managed to source a short piece of metal pipe, its quite difficult to buy large pieces of metal in short lengths. This will ensure theres no deformation under pressure vs the PVC pipe. Although I am amazed at what the PVC pipe can do, this metal pipe will ensure no issues when removing the rear bushings. I machined the pipe to length and sanded off the galvanization to make it look nicer. The barbell from the previous iteration of the tool is retained Heres some pics of the tool assembled: Heres a pic of the front tool in action: The fuel pump tool works amazingly well vs the PVC pipe and block of wood. Well worth the effort in making the new tool! The only issue was that the tool did bend a little from the force and on the 2nd bushing, the tool did slip off. Quite surprising since the tool appears to be forged. I beleive this can be fixed by simply using 2x fuel pump tools stacked on top of each other. They could be bolted together for strength but I think I will just weld them together instead. I have ordered a 2nd fuel pump tool and will stack them up for strength weld them together and update the thread. While the fuel pump tool can be used for the rears I will stick to using the pipe for the rears since the force can be evenly distributed vs only 2 small contact patches. Have not tried the metal pipe for the rear bushings yet, but I am confident it will be an improvement. The PVC pipe tool still has the advantage of not scratching the subframe vs metal tools though.
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Last edited by vtl; 08-21-2016 at 05:24 PM.. |
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08-22-2016, 10:35 PM | #47 |
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Love the detailed DYI write-up, thanks mate!
Has anyone installed these on an E87 130i with stock M-sport suspension?
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08-23-2016, 06:35 PM | #48 | |
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These can be ordered in from Repco too, actually ends up being slightly cheaper than the online places depending on the repco you order from.
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08-28-2016, 11:06 PM | #49 |
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Tested out the bushing tool (steel pipe) on the weekend. Worked flawlessly, the rear bushings on this car required a lot of force to remove (stripped the threaded rod) so it was great that I had this pipe otherwise the PVC would have most likely deformed and slipped off the subframe.
Worth noting you're definitely better off installing these bushings on stock suspension. I have found KW/ST rear shocks to be much shorter, not allowing the subframe to be lowered as much. Bilstein B8 shocks seem to extend just as far as OEM shocks though and didn't have issues with it. Have never had to disconnect the shocks but in this instance with KW V2s fitted, I had all 4 subframe bolts removed and the subframe hanging from the rear shocks. Was a tight fit for the tool to fit in the front bushings, but managed to get it done by just wedging in the top nut.
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08-29-2016, 08:53 AM | #50 |
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Hello all,
Did this installation over the weekend. I used some of the tools vtl has described and found the following: 1. Having to small trolley jack would make it alot simpler. I used a trolley, scissor jack and blocks of wood. 2. To remove the fronts was easy by just placing a large socket between the body and the bush, jack up the sub frame or lower the body and add heat. Pretty well takes about a half hour for each to squeeze out. I used a paint stripper gun. Just be careful as these are close to the petrol tank. One just about fell out and looked a little the worst for wear after 61k. 3. The backs were harder. I made up a extractor with the plastic 100mm plumbing fitting, threaded stainless rod I had sitting around, 1/4", 2 very stout washers, one for the top and one for the bottom and a block made from 10mm ply. I soaked the bush in CRC before starting and needed to add heat to help it out. Finla extraction was by wriggling it with a right angle socket bar. The whole change took 10 hours but that is mainly because I am not very skilled, making the tools as I went, sitting around contemplating things and 2 trolley jacks would be massively helpful. I will do a bit of a review of the results in a few weeks as I have gone through a series of steps and leaving for a few weeks including pins, square rims with 245 and 255 RFTs and final step come adjustable front control arms. One thing I can say is that at 80kms on a freeway roundabout there is lots of grip, not much roll and still a bit of steering load and a bit of understeer. Slow right angle corners and the tail can be kicked out easy, lots of turn in and throttle oversteer. Car now steers light and without nervousness and the rear follows terrain rather than floats over it. |
08-29-2016, 05:26 PM | #51 | |
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08-29-2016, 11:29 PM | #52 |
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08-30-2016, 03:27 AM | #53 |
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Muppet how do you find the harshness over large bumps, road expansion joints, train-tracks etc? Your tailbone is intact? I gather you're on non runflat tyres?
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08-30-2016, 10:12 AM | #54 | |
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I am surprised the little if any change in NVH. Ran over a piece of 3x1.5 yesterday and no real increase in slamming. Today I tried running into pot holes to see if the first impression was correct and happy to report no change in opinion. I have and intend to keep the standard springs and shocks as I feel they are a reasonable set up. Car no longer floats over uneven surfaces and now moves with the road surface. As a result can see no reason the upgrade the rear any further. Some years ago I was advised to do a similar change to urethane engine mounts rather than soft rubber on a course diesel in a yacht as they stated that the shake was worse for NVH. Proved to be correct and got rid of a drive shaft shake. After looking at the mounts taken out I cannot see how they properly hold the sub frame in place and in fact may contribute to some of the NVH from run flats. One thing that is noticeable is the absence of elasticity when kicking the rear out. It is now very linear. |
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08-30-2016, 05:26 PM | #55 | ||
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08-30-2016, 05:42 PM | #56 |
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Definitely a subjective thing.
I definitely felt the harshness over fast bumps were worse and non runflat tyres fixed it. I wouldn't stick to runflats because of the stiff sidewalls. Much more chance of denting a rim with those terrible tyres. They also don't last long, my Yokohama AD08Rs road/track tyres have the same wear rating as my old runflats. If you do the bushes on an E90/E92, I couldn't feel any difference in ride quality even with runflats. Seems that chassis is less sensitive to mods in terms of ride quality, not quite sure why, they all use the same subframe and suspension.
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08-31-2016, 08:42 AM | #57 |
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I am using stock M suspension. If you are using stiffer springs and shocks, the car is lowered, stiffer ARB, then the likelyhood of a different result is high.
If suspension is lowered then the likelyhood of hitting bumpstops increases when you run over something a bit larger. Driving today I felt no difference between the front wheels and back when they hit something in road. I made a point of aiming for rough surfaces. Does anyone know whether the front subframe has similar mounts to the original rear mounts? |
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08-31-2016, 05:44 PM | #58 | |
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The front subframe is rigidly mounted to the front chassis supports and body and has no rubber mounts.
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08-31-2016, 07:34 PM | #59 |
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@vtl maybe organise a trip to Sydney over a weekend and we'll get about 5-10 cars lined up for you to install these on. Charge $200-$250 a pop for install??
I'm sure we'd get at least 5 participants, maybe more. |
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08-31-2016, 08:12 PM | #60 |
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Interesting point vtl. Muppet - how many kays has your oem suspension done?
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08-31-2016, 08:27 PM | #61 |
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The car is 2011 with 60k, woman driver and never off the bitumen.
I believe from a bit of reading in these forums that the springs on post 2011 cars are linear rather than progressive. This would have a bearing on what is felt. If the shocks are tired and springs progressive there would be allot of shock over bumps. |
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08-31-2016, 10:30 PM | #62 |
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Haha fun idea but would be hard to fit my 50L air compressor and tools in my carry on lol
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09-01-2016, 12:12 AM | #63 | |
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Just think about it. 10 cars at $250 a hit = $2500. That's ok for a weekend payday. |
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09-01-2016, 12:30 AM | #64 | ||
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09-01-2016, 12:48 AM | #65 |
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Haha definitely not. Fastest I've ever done a subframe bushing job was around 2.5 hours. I'd say 3 max in a day, unless everyone is pitching in.
JB4-335 I'm actually coming to Syd in Oct for some NBT retrofitting so might have some time for extra car work.
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09-01-2016, 01:27 AM | #66 |
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Keen for Sydney install!
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