Is Wood Trim Really Wood?

[KingOfJericho]

The Alfa and Jag were hardly rare and aren't worth any more than our 1ers. The 250GT was built nearly half a century ago and is a fabulous and valuable sports car but I stand by my statement... wood is not prevalent in modern sports cars. Just look at any modern Ferrari or Lambo...

I'm also stating an opinion here. I don't think it belongs in a sports car while you do. Agree to disagree!

[rawbert54]

what about one made of hemp?

[BlackjackMulligan]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

The Alfa and Jag were hardly rare and aren't worth any more than our 1ers. The 250GT was built nearly half a century ago and is a fabulous and valuable sports car but I stand by my statement... wood is not prevalent in modern sports cars. Just look at any modern Ferrari or Lambo...

I'm also stating an opinion here. I don't think it belongs in a sports car while you do. Agree to disagree!

Agreed

(although I'd take a mint XKE over my 1er anyday )

[JimD]

The amount of wood in the BMW trim is trivial from any safety standpoint. I have removed the dash trim and it clearly has plastic behind it as well as a thick finish coat that is undoubtedly a water based plastic finish. The wood itself is a very thin veneer. I strongly suspect it is just glued to the plastic substrate and then finished. A normal thickness for wood veneer is .010 inch. Typically it is put on a paper backing making the total thickness .020 inch. Thick veneer is a total .035 thickness with a .020 paper backing. My guess is that the BMW trim does not have the paper backing but I didn't really look that close. Either way, flammible material .020 thick isn't much of a risk nor can it splinter into something damaging. I would be more worried about the plastic substrate from both a flamibility and a splintering aspect. It would seem to have enough thickness to be more of a threat.

The wood is not much thicker than thick paint. But that is not the point. You cannot manufacture the look of real wood. Some "luxury" cars attempt it but if you know wood, it is very easy to spot. Real wood, even when covered by thick finish, still looks much better. If the walnut in my 128i had crotch or flame or even burl figure it would be even better but at least its wood. The wood is cosmetic, not structural.

The poplar trim is fancy figured poplar. But fancy poplar is not the same as fancy walnut (at least not to a wood guy).

Jim

[BlackjackMulligan]

Originally Posted by JimD

The amount of wood in the BMW trim is trivial from any safety standpoint. I have removed the dash trim and it clearly has plastic behind it as well as a thick finish coat that is undoubtedly a water based plastic finish. The wood itself is a very thin veneer. I strongly suspect it is just glued to the plastic substrate and then finished. A normal thickness for wood veneer is .010 inch. Typically it is put on a paper backing making the total thickness .020 inch. Thick veneer is a total .035 thickness with a .020 paper backing. My guess is that the BMW trim does not have the paper backing but I didn't really look that close. Either way, flammible material .020 thick isn't much of a risk nor can it splinter into something damaging. I would be more worried about the plastic substrate from both a flamibility and a splintering aspect. It would seem to have enough thickness to be more of a threat.

The wood is not much thicker than thick paint. But that is not the point. You cannot manufacture the look of real wood. Some "luxury" cars attempt it but if you know wood, it is very easy to spot. Real wood, even when covered by thick finish, still looks much better. If the walnut in my 128i had crotch or flame or even burl figure it would be even better but at least its wood. The wood is cosmetic, not structural.

The poplar trim is fancy figured poplar. But fancy poplar is not the same as fancy walnut (at least not to a wood guy).

Jim

Acura still uses fake wood in the MDX. While the wood in the '08 my wife currently drives is better than the wood in her old '05 MDX, it's still an unfortunate shortcut on a $40K + SUV.

[dbs600]

Does anyone know how wood trim gets its color; White Ash Grain and Piano Finish Black in particular? The wood used for these trims don't appear to be naturally white or black; stains are applied, right? Thanks!

[bbbbmw]

I believe the wood in the 2002 was fake. My Bavaria had a very thin strip of real wood, however.

[zoomnad]

My 128i has wood and so do I every I drive my BMW.

[JimD]

I am unfamiliar with white ash or piano black trim as wood but it sounds like they are stained. The poplar option for my 128i was certainly stained. It is grey while poplar is white. Ash is colored like oak so if it is white, that is stain. The only naturally black wood is ebony. So unless black trim is ebony (very unlikely it is very expensive) it is stained. Most furniture is stained. Even when walnut or cherry is finished to look like walnut or cherry it is usually stained to even out color variations. Most of us would complain if they left the normal color variation God made in the furniture or our car trim.

We need to recognize that wood or no wood in our cars is a cosmetic thing the same as getting leather seats or an alcantara headliner. I like wood so I want wood trim. Others may not want wood, or leather, or alcantara. Their choice for their car.

Infiniti also uses terrible fake wood trim. To me this is the only really unacceptable choice. Either use wood or not but don't fake it. I can take fake aluminum trim a lot easier than fake wood. But this is just my cosmetic choice/opinion.

Jim

[Mr. Toad]

Originally Posted by JimD

...fake wood trim. To me this is the only really unacceptable choice. Either use wood or not but don't fake it. I can take fake aluminum trim a lot easier than fake wood. But this is just my cosmetic choice/opinion.

I agree completely. Back in my high school days in the 70s, I had a Pontiac Grand Prix with the cheesiest, most glaringly obvious fake "wood" in the center of the dash. It practically screamed, "I'm 100% cheap plastic!" and it squeaked relentlessly. I vowed never to own such a tasteless creation again (I didn't pick the car, it was given to me).

[Suprgnat]

Even back in the day the wood was veneer.

[JimD]

I had a Fiat 124 Spyder once (fun but bad car) which had a glove box door that was a piece of plywood. The top leaked so the plywood was delaminating but it was definitely wood. Of course Morgans originally had a wood frame. I rode from the church to my house after getting married in March in an Oakland that had wooden spoked wheels. An Oakland is a predecessor of a Pontiac, built in the 1920s. But wood is not a structural material in current cars - purely cosmetic.

That looks like nice burl veneer, by the way. Burl comes from growths on the side of the tree. Kind of like tree pimples. I wish my bimmer had similar wood. My favorite comes from the intersection of the trunk and two or more limbs. It is called crotch figure. The portion of the tree where it goes into the ground - the stump - also has interesting figure. Figured wood is inherently unstable and best used as veneer.

Jim

[Suprgnat]

I also like that they bookmatch the veneer, that is, mirror the veneer on each side of the dash for those unfamiliar with the term.

Also had the steering wheel custom made. That's an art in-and-of itself. Kudos to Mike Lempert on his craftsmanship.

http://www.pbase.com/mdlempert/wheels[/IMG]

[bluecat]

hmm, this thread has sparked my interest. Anyone have any leftover trim pieces they'd like to part with? I might try my hand and refinishing...

[Teemo Panda]

IMO the wood trim is not real unless I could feel its grains and has no clear coat on it.

[JimD]

You'd only like trim without clear coat for a few days. An oil finish would let you feel and see the grain in a porus (oak) or semi porus (walnut) wood but would also require frequent cleaning and refinishing. It isn't durable. In furniture, for table tops for instance, the finish is about like our car parts. They do it for the same reason, durability. If you know wood, the finish doesn't make it hard to tell wood from plastic. For wood with small pores (poplar, cherry, maple) the pores would not be distinct even with an oil finish.

Jim