Costs of tracking a 135i?

[ASAP]

All the experts that consistently run their cars on the track and also DD them, what kind of costs do you run into on these cars?

I can only think of;

Brake Pads and Rotors
Tires
Oil
Brake Fluid


Am I missing something? Obviously I don't mean things that could break...

[BMW86]

Skip the pads/rotors and go for a BBK if you're serious about tracking the car. Keep a spare set of wheel/tyre to use for these events. Consider a stud conversion to make swapping them easier. That's about it, besides track day fees, licences and fuel.

I would also consider coilovers and LSD if you haven't done them already. The 135i's need them.

[02rsxpilot]

I think you've captured the main things. Basically, tracking the car just requires slightly more frequent and more diligent maintenance. Brake fluid flush once a year, bleed fluid a few times per year. Oil change twice a year (I typically do one before the track season and one in the middle). Tires and brake pads should last you a whole season, depending on how many events you do (I do 4-6 per year with about another 15k miles per year daily driving).

In my experience, the added maintenance is really pretty minor. The expense comes when you start wanting to fix the things you don't like on the track. M3 bits, labor if you can't DIY it, alignments, etc...

And FWIW, I'm not following the other recommendations. BBKs, LSD, suspension...that's all way beyond dual duty use and is entirely discretionary. None of that is necessary to have a perfectly capable dual duty car.

[Nugget]

Stone chips, and all the mods you end up wanting

[John_01]

Better tires that can stand track running without becoming soft goo. (maybe you already counted that). After you do it a couple of times you will probably also want front camber plates, better suspension and rear subframe bushings.

Some cooling mods to avoid overheating. You may need to get an oil cooler if your car didn't come with one and maybe change the coolant mix with a higher % distilled water. Until then keep an eye on the temperature gauge.

[ASAP]

Thanks all...

I am already running near new Michelin PSS tires so I will stick with them. I probably also need a brake flush asap; but otherwise I think the car is ready.

Also, how do people deal with heatsoak? I had issues this past weekend, I had the larger FMIC but in 85F weather, I don't feel like it helped much at all.

[3002 tii]

I'm a firm believer that tracking isn't as costly as one thinks. It's the registration, gas, hotel and optional insurance that's so costly. But when it comes to prepping the car, you only need to focus on the bare minimum which is a) maintenance and b) pads/fluids. The question is, as you progress and get faster or do it more regularly, is the 135i the optimal car for what you're trying to achieve? For example maybe you're better off buying a dedicated E36 track car if you're looking for cheap and something you can compete with in a series.

But for the occasional DE driver there's no need to drop $$$ on LSD, suspension, super sticky tires, bbk, etc. You can still have a good time in a stock 135i with track pads and decent summer tires but you just probably won't be setting any track records. Put it this way, if I was new to the sport and I had $2500 to spend, after I put down $500 on pads I'd put the remaining $2k on pure seat time.

Originally Posted by Nugget

Stone chips, and all the mods you end up wanting

It's fugly as heck but that's what painter's tape is for =)

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

I'm a firm believer that tracking isn't as costly as one thinks. It's the registration, gas, hotel and optional insurance that's so costly. But when it comes to prepping the car, you only need to focus on the bare minimum which is a) maintenance and b) pads/fluids. The question is, as you progress and get faster or do it more regularly, is the 135i the optimal car for what you're trying to achieve? For example maybe you're better off buying a dedicated E36 track car if you're looking for cheap and something you can compete with in a series.

But for the occasional DE driver there's no need to drop $$$ on LSD, suspension, super sticky tires, bbk, etc. You can still have a good time in a stock 135i with track pads and decent summer tires but you just probably won't be setting any track records. Put it this way, if I was new to the sport and I had $2500 to spend, after I put down $500 on pads I'd put the remaining $2k on pure seat time.



It's fugly as heck but that's what painter's tape is for =)

That's the plan I agree.

[02rsxpilot]

Another +1 to 3002tii. It's not that others are giving bad advice, it's just all the modding is a symptom of this beautiful disease, not a necessity to contract it in the first place.

I started tracking in a much slower car (2002 Acura RSX if you couldn't tell from my handle). The 135i, in bone stock form, is multitudes quicker than that car, so all this talk of LSDs and BBKs and subframe bushings and all that...things that might make you one, two, three seconds quicker per lap if you're lucky...it's all totally unnecessary unless you're actually competing.

I 100% agree that you are better off spending mod money on seat time. If you want proof, look no further than motortrend's 2009 car of the year test on youtube (commonly cited here on the forums), where pro driver Randy Probst took a bone stock 2009 135i around Laguna Seca in 1:46, while very few on here can even manage to beat 1:50 with "upgraded" brakes, tires, suspension, etc... (myself included).

It's easy to lose perspective on the forums, and modding is actually one of the fun parts of having a "track car". But never just start buying upgrades because 10 people on a forum told you the car is terrible until you replace this or that. The truth is, the car might have been terrible to that person, with their driving style, on their track, until they made that upgrade, but you could be a completely different case, or if they were half the driver they think they are, they probably would realize the problem was with the monkey at the wheel, not the car.

[OLEK135i]

If you plan to track the car regularly (2-4 events a year), the most important thing you need to get is the abiltiy to be firmly planted in a car, which at a minimum means purchasing a schroth quick fit harness. If you are not firmly planted in you seat, your driving ability will be hampered as you brace yourself against the car with your legs and arms.

As you progress, you will identify what you need to get done to your car. The minimums you will identify will be as follows:

You will boil the stock brake fluid, so you will need to move up to a dot 4 fluid (ATE, Motul 600, Motul 660, etc.)

You will move up in brake pads (from stock to hybrid dd/track such as Hawk HP+ or Stoptech or Ferrodo to a dedicated track pad like Hawk DTC-60)

You will notice the limited venting to your brakes, which in my case and many others will result in you destroying the dust boots and changing the caliper color from shiny grey to evntual green or purple color. You may also continue to experience brake fade despite change in fluid.

So you will need to add some hard brakes titanium backing plates, you will need to get some venting which can be as crude as bending back your backing plates or doing this:http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663510&highlight=shield[/URL] at a minimum and you may want to install stainless steel brake lines.

You will also need to either rebuild the caliper at some point (and potentially upgrade the pistons) or get it replaced under warranty if your dealer and SA are cool.

You will experience dangerously high operating temperatures (if you run in 80+ temps) that may result in limp mode which will mean you will need to come up with solutions to reduce the heat in the engine. At a minimum you may need to run the heat max in your car at the tailend of a session, you may want to remove your cowl, replace the sport oil cooler valve, increase the distilled water mix in your radiator, add a radiator additive. You could certainly upgrade your oil cooler or (not sure if these are still available) get the performance power kit from BMW, but now you are looking at 4 digit expenditures. (upgradeing your FMIC will not reduce the temperature in your engine for the track)

You will notice the tire wear and understeer as you progress, so you will want to get camber plates (and M3 front control arms) and get wider tires. Ideally you will want a square set up (I am personally struggling to find a relatively inexpensive square set up right now, open to suggestions) so you will want to purchase wheels. This of course after you shed your rfts and get tires in the max performance (Mich PSS) to extreme performance (Direzza, Potenza, etc.) at a minimum.

So that, in addition to tools you will need (torque wrench, jack, tire pressure guage, etc.) gas and lodging (you will love camping!), track insurance (unless you are comfortable walking away from your car) and actual fees is what you can expect to spend at a MINIMUM.

I am sure I missed something.

Improved suspension, improved rotors, BBK, bushings, engine mods, r-comp tires, timing devices, trailers, rvs, pit crew, groupees can be expected down the road. Hope this helps.

Last but not least, you will spend countless hours visiting this site, and talking with fellow track devotees and instructors.

[dcaron9999]

3002Ti, 02RSXPilot, and OLEK135i nailed it ...

Seat time and education is best investment (upgrade the driver first) ...

Im lucky enough to still be running on stock brake rotors and caliper components so far (with aftermarket pads and fluid).
Brake fade is not quite dialed out yet on my current set (see signature), but still exploring/managing them on the track.

No N55 engine overheating either on Cobb Stage 1+ map, stock oil cooler, stock radiator and fan.

Found a cheap set of stock style 261 RIMS for $300CAD. Used four rear 18x8.5 ET52 style 261 RIMS for a square 255/35R18 setup ...

[fboutlaw]

There was one good post here. Tracking really does just mean more frequent maintenance when you're starting out. When you're starting out, you don't get anywhere close to the cars limits, so most of the posts address issues that you won't have.

If I had a recommended list:
1. Maintenance items
- Oil change pre-event
- Brake fluid flush to ATE Typ 200 or better
2. Get a service kit together (just incase)
- Toolbox
- Jack
- Spare tire
3. Your own helmet that fits right. SA2010 helmets only at this point.
4. Highly recommend the schroth 4pt e82 seat belts. You'll likely need 2 to take an instructor. But there is a huge enjoyment increase when you're not jamming your left leg up against the drivers door to support yourself in corners.
5. Remove the dust-guards on the front wheels. This will net you a huge cooling increase for 3 bolts per side and you won't have the issues everyone is talking about with braking.

Leave the performance mods for later. They're useful once you learn what the car does, you've decided to invest in the sport to improve your lap times/personal enjoyment. But be careful. It's easy to get started with $2k of improvements, then you look up and you're $25k in the hole for performance, when you could have just bought an NSX for that price. Performance stuff doesn't increase the value of the car and I'd say loses 60% of the value as soon as it's out of the box.

[02rsxpilot]

Originally Posted by OLEK135i

If you plan to track the car regularly (2-4 events a year), the most important thing you need to get is the abiltiy to be firmly planted in a car, which at a minimum means purchasing a schroth quick fit harness. If you are not firmly planted in you seat, your driving ability will be hampered as you brace yourself against the car with your legs and arms.

While I agree the harness is a great add, it is not necessary for entry-level track driving. A simple seat belt lock procedure (youtube it) is entirely sufficient. Stock M-Sport seats have great lateral support.

Originally Posted by OLEK135i

As you progress, you will identify what you need to get done to your car. The minimums you will identify will be as follows:

You will boil the stock brake fluid, so you will need to move up to a dot 4 fluid (ATE, Motul 600, Motul 660, etc.)

I've done multiple events on stock DOT 4 fluid, at highly demanding tracks, and never boiled it, not even with Hawk DTC-70 brake pads. Again, is it a good idea to upgrade? Sure, but is it a minimum requirement? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by OLEK135i

You will move up in brake pads (from stock to hybrid dd/track such as Hawk HP+ or Stoptech or Ferrodo to a dedicated track pad like Hawk DTC-60)

I also had no issue with stock brake pads, other than they didn't have great modulation feel. This was driver preference to upgrade them. Yet again, a good idea? Probably. A minimum requirement? Not in my opinion.

Originally Posted by OLEK135i

You will notice the limited venting to your brakes, which in my case and many others will result in you destroying the dust boots and changing the caliper color from shiny grey to evntual green or purple color. You may also continue to experience brake fade despite change in fluid.

So you will need to add some hard brakes titanium backing plates,

Titanium backing plates shield heat from the pistons, thereby increasing heat in your pads and rotors. This is a tradeoff. Personally my pistons have held up fine and my dust boots only show minor cracking, which is a design flaw in the caliper, not a problem with the setup itself. It's about $15 to get new dust boots.

Originally Posted by OLEK135i

...you will need to get some venting which can be as crude as bending back your backing plates or doing this:http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663510&highlight=shield[/URL]

Agree this is a good step, but only if you've upgraded to race pads. Your brakes will be just fine with the stock shields if you are still on an OEM setup. If you want a little more air flow, it's free to just remove the dust shields for track days.

Originally Posted by OLEK135i

...at a minimum and you may want to install stainless steel brake lines.

Sorry, no. Completely disagree. SS brake lines are a highly debated, highly subjective "upgrade". In many cases, SS brake lines are more prone to failure than OEM lines because they aren't made to the same standards. This is a completely unnecessary mod for a beginning driver.

Originally Posted by OLEK135i

You will also need to either rebuild the caliper at some point (and potentially upgrade the pistons) or get it replaced under warranty if your dealer and SA are cool.

"At some point" is an awfully vague timeline when we are talking about basic costs of tracking a car, per the OP's original question. The worst caliper rebuild stories on this forum are six years old, when the car was brand new and folks were machining brake pads to fit it because manufacturer's weren't making them yet.

Originally Posted by OLEK135i

You will experience dangerously high operating temperatures (if you run in 80+ temps) that may result in limp mode which will mean you will need to come up with solutions to reduce the heat in the engine.

I've never experienced limp mode or abnormal temps whether it was 90 degrees or 50 at the track.

Originally Posted by OLEK135i

At a minimum you may need to run the heat max in your car at the tailend of a session, you may want to remove your cowl, replace the sport oil cooler valve, increase the distilled water mix in your radiator, add a radiator additive. You could certainly upgrade your oil cooler or (not sure if these are still available) get the performance power kit from BMW, but now you are looking at 4 digit expenditures. (upgradeing your FMIC will not reduce the temperature in your engine for the track)

The only limp modes I've seen are in vehicles that are tuned to produce more power than they were designed to cool. If you up the car's power, you need to up the cooling. If the car is stock, this is, yet again, totally unnecessary.

Originally Posted by OLEK135i

You will notice the tire wear and understeer as you progress, so you will want to get camber plates (and M3 front control arms) and get wider tires. Ideally you will want a square set up (I am personally struggling to find a relatively inexpensive square set up right now, open to suggestions) so you will want to purchase wheels. This of course after you shed your rfts and get tires in the max performance (Mich PSS) to extreme performance (Direzza, Potenza, etc.) at a minimum.

Tires are the best performance mod you can make. However, in my opinion, the car does not understeer nearly as bad as everyone on this forum would like you to believe. Your own driving style will eventually dictate if you need more grip up front. I also run stock camber and have seen even tire wear on both stock RFTs and the Dunlop Direzza ZIIs. Not over-driving the tires goes a long way.

Honestly, not trying to be contrary here, but reading this gets really frustrating. If a person did everything listed here, it'd be several THOUSAND dollars "at minimum" to get on the track. That is simply, plainly, boldly false.

[Ginger_Extract]

Run it stock for as long as you can. You don't really "NEED" much of anything. Although, I do recommend changing the oil right before a track day, even as a novice, simply because these cars run so hot. Fresh oil still has its full range of additives active, and offers better protection against engine wear from running it hard. Other than that, do I GOOD pre - race inspection, brakes, lines, everything secured, fluids, etc. And go out and have fun. The stock car is VERY capable. Not the easiest to get in and drive fast, but very capable.

[OLEK135i]

Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot

While I agree the harness is a great add, it is not necessary for entry-level track driving. A simple seat belt lock procedure (youtube it) is entirely sufficient. Stock M-Sport seats have great lateral support.



I've done multiple events on stock DOT 4 fluid, at highly demanding tracks, and never boiled it, not even with Hawk DTC-70 brake pads. Again, is it a good idea to upgrade? Sure, but is it a minimum requirement? I don't think so.



I also had no issue with stock brake pads, other than they didn't have great modulation feel. This was driver preference to upgrade them. Yet again, a good idea? Probably. A minimum requirement? Not in my opinion.


Titanium backing plates shield heat from the pistons, thereby increasing heat in your pads and rotors. This is a tradeoff. Personally my pistons have held up fine and my dust boots only show minor cracking, which is a design flaw in the caliper, not a problem with the setup itself. It's about $15 to get new dust boots.

Agree this is a good step, but only if you've upgraded to race pads. Your brakes will be just fine with the stock shields if you are still on an OEM setup. If you want a little more air flow, it's free to just remove the dust shields for track days.



Sorry, no. Completely disagree. SS brake lines are a highly debated, highly subjective "upgrade". In many cases, SS brake lines are more prone to failure than OEM lines because they aren't made to the same standards. This is a completely unnecessary mod for a beginning driver.

"At some point" is an awfully vague timeline when we are talking about basic costs of tracking a car, per the OP's original question. The worst caliper rebuild stories on this forum are six years old, when the car was brand new and folks were machining brake pads to fit it because manufacturer's weren't making them yet.

I've never experienced limp mode or abnormal temps whether it was 90 degrees or 50 at the track.

The only limp modes I've seen are in vehicles that are tuned to produce more power than they were designed to cool. If you up the car's power, you need to up the cooling. If the car is stock, this is, yet again, totally unnecessary.

Tires are the best performance mod you can make. However, in my opinion, the car does not understeer nearly as bad as everyone on this forum would like you to believe. Your own driving style will eventually dictate if you need more grip up front. I also run stock camber and have seen even tire wear on both stock RFTs and the Dunlop Direzza ZIIs. Not over-driving the tires goes a long way.

Honestly, not trying to be contrary here, but reading this gets really frustrating. If a person did everything listed here, it'd be several THOUSAND dollars "at minimum" to get on the track. That is simply, plainly, boldly false.

Hey mate, if you read my post you would see that I clearly started it with:

"As you progress, you will identify what you need to get done to your car."

I ran my car bone stock for the first year, so yes, just about everything you say here is correct, except for the fact that the OP never says anywhere in his posts that he is a beginner driver.

Some of your responses show that you aren't really reading my response or you are relating it to your car. For example, I said you MAY want to upgrade to SS lines. I have not changed the lines till this year after four years of tracking the car. I said you may want to bend the backing plates or do the F30 upgrade at a minimum. Another example is your reference to limpmodes. You have an N55 engine, the OP has an N54, as do I, which are more susceptible to limp mode. I have never experienced limpmode, but other I know with N54 engines have, and when showing the temperatures to both an engineer whose only job is motor oil and a seperate bmw master mechanic, both were alarmed at the high temperature the car was running.

The OP was not asking what to do to improve, but what was the experience in terms of cost for those people who daily drive and track the car. I am sharing the experience I have had along with 7 other owners of 135i's that I have the pleasure of knowing who range in expereince from novice to instructor(ex-proracer).

The 135i is not a track car stock, so taking it to the track is pushing the limits of what it was designed to do. As you progress, you will identify what you need to get done to your car.

If you want to improve, nothing beats INSTRUCTION and SEAT TIME.

Lastly, I and others certainly did not spend several thousand dollars in what I mentioned. You saying that is frustrating.

The OP asked "what kind of costs do you run into on these cars?", I am just sharing the experience of several people including myself. That is the purpose of this forum, to share our experiences.

[fe1rx]

Originally Posted by ASAP

All the experts that consistently run their cars on the track and also DD them, what kind of costs do you run into on these cars?

I can only think of;

Brake Pads and Rotors
Tires
Oil
Brake Fluid


Am I missing something? Obviously I don't mean things that could break...

Nobody seems to have actually answered the OP's question.

It costs this to track my car (with representative numbers/reasoning):

1) track fees (track/event dependant)

2) fuel (assume 2 tanks on track plus transit)

3) tire wear (assume 5 to 10 lapping days on a set of tires, depending on how you drive)

4) brake wear (assume not more than 10 lapping days on a set of front pads and rotors, 20 on a set of rears, pad/track/driver dependant)

5) brake fluid (cost of at least one flush per year vs BMW recommended two)

6) mods ($0 to whatever you want to spend)

Ignoring mods, this means about $600 per lapping day when I do the math, before I count any mods. Your results may vary, but if you choke on this, modding your car will only make it worse.

[02rsxpilot]

Originally Posted by OLEK135i

Hey mate, if you read my post you would see that I clearly started it with:

"As you progress, you will identify what you need to get done to your car."

I read your post very thoroughly, and I'm not here to argue and I apologize if my response came across as being argumentative. What I read in your post was this: "As you progress, you will identify what you need to get done to your car. The minimums you will identify will be as follows:"

That last bit is where apparently I got the wrong idea, or we have different definitions of the word "minimum", because you then listed off a solid $4,000+ in mods, many of which I simply didn't agree with based on the rationales provided. But that's just me.

And you're absolutely right that I responded specific to my own experience, which is that with only tires and front brake pads, my car can hang with M3s and Corvettes and all manner of similar weight/power cars in my club, which is damn good fun.

I think we all read the OPs question and answer from a different lens. I read it and wanted to express, as others here did, that tracking a car is not actually that expensive. Of course, it's not cheap either. I'd put it up there with playing golf as a year-round hobby. It's $200-300 for event fees, it's 1-2 tanks of gas (excluding driving to the track and back), and it's a handful of maintenance items you need to stay on top of throughout the year. Specifically for me, that's been alignments, fluid changes, and tires. Any modding you do after that is discretionary, in my opinion, and should not be factored into the general costs of tracking a car.

[DietTab]

Easiest way to keep engine temps down is to run an ethanol blend. My car runs 20 degrees cooler on E70 then it does on 93 pump gas, and it runs a hotter tune on the ethanol. Food for thought