128i instead of a 135i?

[JimD]

I should have mentioned this in my first post but there is an excellant article in last month's, July's, Roundel magazine. I think even non-members can get to the on line versions if you go to the BMW car club of america website. Mike Miller, who writes the maintenance column for the Roundel (he answered two of my emails the next day in both cases) calls the 128i the most fun of any current BMW. He includes data from a test on a track where the 128i was about 5mph slower in top speed to a couple much bigger, much more expensive bimmers but I do not remember the models. I think it was 130mph versus 135mph or something like that. Mike also comments that while it understeers at the limits the limits are so high most drivers will not get there.

I got the sports suspension as one of only two extras I ordered (the other was walnut trim).

I like Mike's column, and his support, and I agree completely with the article he wrote (it is the first I've seen him write).

Jim

[Alow]

Everything I can think of was already said. I drove both. Got the 128i. Love it. I couldn't be happier. The article in the Roundel magazine that JimD mentioned is something you need to read if you are considering this car.

[gnat]

Originally Posted by JimD

I should have mentioned this in my first post but there is an excellant article in last month's, July's, Roundel magazine.

I read that and agree it is an excellent article. It was his comparison to the old e30 that got me interested in the 1 series. Until then I hadn't even considered a new BMW as I really dislike my wife's e90.

-dave

[MarkR171]

Even with that thread popping up about a possible HPFP problem on the N55, there's still no way I would have considered a 128 instead of a 135 (I would have went with a base Cayman instead.) The 135 is just a lot more fun and isn't even much more money. I think the HPFP problem is blown out of proportion. I know of 2 '09s and an '08 locally. Both '09s have had 1 HPFP replacement and the '08 hasn't had any problems. My car hasn't had any problems either. It happens sometimes, but not as often as some people make it out to be. The owners of the '09s shrugged it off like it wasn't a big deal when I asked them about it. Both are nearing 30k miles.

That being said, I'm still extremely happy about my choice and if I do have a problem in the future, so be it. At least it seems BMW has claimed to fix the problem with the new "402" pumps.

[SlicktopTTZ]

To be honest, I would never consider a 128i. If you want reliable performance in a platform that is tougher, for the same $$ or less, that uses a TRULY good sounding and radical naturally aspirated I6, buy an E46 M3.

[gnat]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

I would have went with a base Cayman instead.

I'd love to go with a Caymen, but by the time I get done with the options it's about $80k Damn Porsche and their infinite list of options! Yet it annoys me that BMW doesn't give me better ala-cart options, go figure.

I think the HPFP problem is blown out of proportion.

That is the trouble with the internet. Are we only hearing about the vocal minority? Or are we not hearing from hundreds/thousands of people that aren't on the various boards?

I think there is enough information out there to say that the HPFP is indeed a real problem for BMW that they haven't proven (yet) that they can fix. No it hasn't happened to everyone, but will it break for them tomorrow or last until the rest of the engine dies of old age? If I'm going to gamble, I'd like to actually be able to win something in the end

When SAs are even advising against 35s due to the issues, that's pretty telling in my opinion. My wife's SA flat out told me not to get a 135 when we told him I was looking at a 1. I told him I was only looking at the N55 as I was hoping the issue was resolved, but he was still of the opinion that he would stay away from it for now.

-dave

[ErvGotti]

Just another input, but as a man if I was gonna buy something sporty I will always buy the sportier engine. It's like a man buying a V6 mustang or camaro what's the point? That's just how I feel.

[gnat]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

If you want reliable ... E46 M3.

From what I hear that isn't a group of words that belongs in the same sentence

If I'm going for an old BMW, I'm getting another e30IX. Damn I miss that car. The problem is finding one that isn't too badly rusted out that the owner is willing to part with I've actually taken to flagging down e30iX owners I pass on the road and ask them if they'd be willing to sell it, no luck so far

-dave

[SlicktopTTZ]

Originally Posted by gnat

I'd love to go with a Caymen, but by the time I get done with the options it's about $80k Damn Porsche and their infinite list of options! Yet it annoys me that BMW doesn't give me better ala-cart options, go figure.


That is the trouble with the internet. Are we only hearing about the vocal minority? Or are we not hearing from hundreds/thousands of people that aren't on the various boards?

I think there is enough information out there to say that the HPFP is indeed a real problem for BMW that they haven't proven (yet) that they can fix. No it hasn't happened to everyone, but will it break for them tomorrow or last until the rest of the engine dies of old age? If I'm going to gamble, I'd like to actually be able to win something in the end

When SAs are even advising against 35s due to the issues, that's pretty telling in my opinion. My wife's SA flat out told me not to get a 135 when we told him I was looking at a 1. I told him I was only looking at the N55 as I was hoping the issue was resolved, but he was still of the opinion that he would stay away from it for now.

-dave

Sorry, but that SA sounds like an idiot.

Maybe he doesn't want to deal with warranty issues?

First off, it's covered for a long time, and even if you are out of warranty there are already manuals/DIYs on how to replace it yourself. Secondly, if it happens repeatedly, BMW will buy the car back or you can sue. Last of all, there MUST be some point in time when a "bullet-proof" HPFP comes out, whether it be BMW's or an upgraded aftermarket unit.

I have been 18,000 miles with no issues. 135i

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by gnat

When SAs are even advising against 35s due to the issues, that's pretty telling in my opinion. My wife's SA flat out told me not to get a 135 when we told him I was looking at a 1. I told him I was only looking at the N55 as I was hoping the issue was resolved, but he was still of the opinion that he would stay away from it for now.

-dave

Either that's a good and honest SA or he's just trying to push the 128. I had the opposite experience, everyone I talked to praised the 135 and some dealership employees I talked to had one of their own. The finance guy, receptionist, my SA's assistant had one on order, etc.

[SlicktopTTZ]

Originally Posted by gnat

From what I hear that isn't a group of words that belongs in the same sentence

If I'm going for an old BMW, I'm getting another e30IX. Damn I miss that car. The problem is finding one that isn't too badly rusted out that the owner is willing to part with I've actually taken to flagging down e30iX owners I pass on the road and ask them if they'd be willing to sell it, no luck so far

-dave

I have a friend that blew a s54 at a track day. Why did it go? He was running a supercharger and wasn't keeping temps in check.

Also, if you neglect general maintenance, like not replacing or checking anything after 100,000 miles of driving, especially with a 3.2 I6 that revs to 8K, and something "lets go", is that poor engineering or owner stupidity?

[gnat]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

Sorry, but that SA sounds like an idiot.

Or he could recognize that dealing with the issue is a hassle that many people just don't want to deal with.

I have gone through lemoning a car before (my first car actually). While it can be as simple as walking into a good dealership and saying "lemon", it can also be a nasty battle if they want to fight it (assuming that you really do qualify for the lemon law).

Originally Posted by MarkR171

Either that's a good and honest SA or he's just trying to push the 128.

Doubt he is trying to push it since I wouldn't expect him to get anything out of it and my CA is pushing the 135. If both were pushing the 128 I could see that maybe the dealer could have other motives, but given their opposing view points I believe it's just his honest opinion.

[SlicktopTTZ]

My honest opinion is that you will enjoy the turbo or twin turbo engines much more, especially when you start playing with mods.

Good luck with your purchase!

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

Just another input, but as a man if I was gonna buy something sporty I will always buy the sportier engine. It's like a man buying a V6 mustang or camaro what's the point? That's just how I feel.

In this case, the "point" is that it's a NA engine without any major reliability issues that will be cheaper to own and maintain both in the short and long term. Not terribly complicated, really.

To the OP, if you get the 128i, the major thing to avoid is over-optioning the car, as you quickly erode any price advantage it has over the 135i. I'd say 6MT, sport package, and xenons are must-haves, they really contribute to the "driver's car" feel.

I like that my 128i is simple. I really think it's a purist's car. I have no reason to do 0-60 in under 5 seconds (just under 6 is perfectly fine with me) and I plan to hold on to this thing for many years. The 135i just didn't make sense for me. Also, I would feel ripped off if I paid $40k+ for a 1er. I paid a hair over $30k and am perfectly content with that.

[bluefly]

Agree that the 128i is more of a purist driver's car. My experience with test drives of both cars is that the 128i feels notably lighter on its feet, very composed on the Sport Suspension, and has a more rewarding power delivery (better sound as the I6 revs, increasing power to redline). The car is by no means slow, incidentally, at least if equipped with the 6-speed manual gearbox. I have to smile when people say that a 230hp compact sized car that does 6-flat to 60mph is "slow", particularly a car with 50/50 weight distribution, RWD, a slick manual shifter, very quick steering ratio, and a suspension with very good ride/handling balance.

It is not about "settling"... there are several enthusiasts on this forum that genuinely prefer a naturally aspirated motor to a turbocharged one, and consequently find the N52-powered 1's more enjoyable to drive than the N54/N55-powered cars. Also, don't forget that you are not choosing a car to please either camp of 1-series owners, you are choosing the car that you will enjoy driving and owning, even years from now when many on this forum have moved on to other cars.

[ErvGotti]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

In this case, the "point" is that it's a NA engine without any major reliability issues that will be cheaper to own and maintain both in the short and long term. Not terribly complicated, really.

With the HPFP being the biggest issue and warrenty for that being extended to 100k miles I dont see how a 128i is cheaper to maintain than a 135i short or long. They'll both get the free maintance so that cover's short term, and I bet preventative maintance will be about the same for both cars after the free maintance.

My point is that why buy somthing sporty if your not gonna get the sportier motor.

[Bimmer-Bob]

Note that I said "cheaper to own and maintain," so the 135i's higher short-term cost stems from its higher MSRP. Short-term maintenance is a non-issue because of the warranty, as you said, unless of course you consider time wasted, which is not inconsequential (time is money, after all).

From my perspective, BMW could extend the HPFP warranty out to 100 years and it still wouldn't make the N54 any more reliable. I simply don't want to pay that kind of money for a car and have to worry about whether or not the thing is going to start in the morning. I realize that not everyone has the HPFP issues, and I'm definitely not knocking the 135 - just saying that, for me, I was not ready to pay more money for a car that I viewed as less reliable. Plus, no one does NA I6's like BMW.

As for your need to have the sportiest model offered - all I can say is that that sort of thinking makes you a marketer's dream. Once the 1M is on the market, will you say that the 135i is not worth having? Will your car somehow become slower simply because a faster model is available? Manufacturers are good at coming up with clever ways to part us from our money, and there will always be something out there that is newer, faster, or whatever. I simply decided how much I was willing to spend on a compact entry-level coupe and the 135i was beyond that. It's a personal decision that everyone has to make for themselves - for me, I have no regrets about my decision and don't feel like I've settled in any way.

[michifan]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

From my perspective, BMW could extend the HPFP warranty out to 100 years and it still wouldn't make the N54 any more reliable. I simply don't want to pay that kind of money for a car and have to worry about whether or not the thing is going to start in the morning. I realize that not everyone has the HPFP issues, and I'm definitely not knocking the 135 - just saying that, for me, I was not ready to pay more money for a car that I viewed as less reliable.

The HPFP is just not as big of a deal as some on this site believe. It is a problem, and it is warrantied to 100,000 miles - 2x what the majority of people that currently own the 135i will drive it.

I'd really love to learn what the true failure rate is from BMW, because nobody I know personally (including myself) has the problem. Again, I'm not saying nobody has it, but this board is not a good representation of the total BMW 135i population.

So far I've had more problems with my clutch and waterpump than the HPFP. I'm not going to say that BMW clutches and waterpumps are crap, because I had a problem, either.

[ErvGotti]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

As for your need to have the sportiest model offered - all I can say is that that sort of thinking makes you a marketer's dream. Once the 1M is on the market, will you say that the 135i is not worth having? Will your car somehow become slower simply because a faster model is available? Manufacturers are good at coming up with clever ways to part us from our money, and there will always be something out there that is newer, faster, or whatever. I simply decided how much I was willing to spend on a compact entry-level coupe and the 135i was beyond that. It's a personal decision that everyone has to make for themselves - for me, I have no regrets about my decision and don't feel like I've settled in any way.

I do agree that no one does NA I6's or Na's in general like BMW, but I still believe that if you are buying a sports car you might as well get the sportier engine. When I needed a sedan at the time I bought a 2000 Passat 1.8t yes the VR6 was sportier and I could have gotten it, but I didn't because it was a sedan and the 1.8t served it's purpose. When I got my Trans Am I got the WS6 V8 and not the V6 because it was a sports car and that's the way I treated it.

But that's just my opinion on sports cars/coupes.

[SlicktopTTZ]

No one builds a FI I6 like BMW either, that is kind of a bad point to make.......

I test drove a 128i without sport package, and it was too slow and floaty for my tastes....

Even a stock 135i is relatively slow.

[GoGeo]

We have a 135i and a 328i. I really like them both, the 328 is a great car and I'd imagine that the 128 would be even better. I LOVE the gas mileage on our 328, on a recent 1500 mile trip, I average 31-34 MPG with the cruise control set at 86-89 MPH. I like the power of my 135i but honestly, who can use it out on the street? If I were to go to a 128, I doubt that I'd miss the extra "power".

[Raine]

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

I do agree that no one does NA I6's or Na's in general like BMW, but I still believe that if you are buying a sports car you might as well get the sportier engine. When I needed a sedan at the time I bought a 2000 Passat 1.8t yes the VR6 was sportier and I could have gotten it, but I didn't because it was a sedan and the 1.8t served it's purpose. When I got my Trans Am I got the WS6 V8 and not the V6 because it was a sports car and that's the way I treated it.

But that's just my opinion on sports cars/coupes.

If you're talking about something like an IS250 vs. an IS350, you would actually have a point but the current V6 Mustang and the IL6 128i aren't exactly slouches.