BMW 1M Coupe Partially Unveiled at Oktoberfest! [INFO, VIDEO & PHOTOS]

[niuniu]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

I'm so sick of these posts referencing a "real ///M car" or whatever. Guess what? If BMW says it's an ///M, then it's an ///M, weather or not you, I , or anyone else likes it, agrees with it, or approves.

It doesn't need to have a CF roof, or quad exhausts, or an 8K redline - I'm sure the engineers at ///M are smart enough to not limit themselves by enforcing self-imposed and arbitrary design parameters that never change.

Bimmer-Bob is at the end of the day, right.

They can produce a wheelbarrow and call it an M car. You can kick and scream and appeal to history all you want, but when they have a car approved by the board - it's an M.

You can say any car after the M1 isn't an M car as they were all luxury derived cars, wheras the M1 was a race car with some luxury trim. We can't choose the goalposts, we aren't there making decisions, it's not our company, or our craftmanship.

What they say goes

I still want my cf roof though, for me it feels like the last straw if you know what I mean

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by niuniu

Bimmer-Bob is at the end of the day, right.

They can produce a wheelbarrow and call it an M car. You can kick and scream and appeal to history all you want, but when they have a car approved by the board - it's an M.

You can say any car after the M1 isn't an M car as they were all luxury derived cars, wheras the M1 was a race car with some luxury trim. We can't choose the goalposts, we aren't there making decisions, it's not our company, or our craftmanship.

What they say goes

I still want my cf roof though, for me it feels like the last straw if you know what I mean

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by niuniu

Bimmer-Bob is at the end of the day, right.

They can produce a wheelbarrow and call it an M car. You can kick and scream and appeal to history all you want, but when they have a car approved by the board - it's an M.

You can say any car after the M1 isn't an M car as they were all luxury derived cars, wheras the M1 was a race car with some luxury trim. We can't choose the goalposts, we aren't there making decisions, it's not our company, or our craftmanship.

What they say goes

I still want my cf roof though, for me it feels like the last straw if you know what I mean

I'll take the CF roof, can't stand the sunroof. The dual exhaust isn't a tru dual and I like torque for street fighting.

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

I'm sure the engineers at ///M are smart enough to not limit themselves by enforcing self-imposed and arbitrary design parameters that never change.

S52B32.........

T

[jpuff]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

That is probably a thing of the past, the 8k redline anyway...

Look at the X5M or X6M--these are indications of things to come....

I am sure BMW will be in the 7-7.5K redline range for the 1M, but as another poster said, if they can extend the N54 power band, and not have it drop off like an anvil at 5K RPM, they are going to have a winner on their hands.

The new McLaren has a 8600rpm redline and it's a twin turbo V8 that holds boost and torque to redline. I think turbo tech has come a long ways and I'm sure BMW will implement new technologies so that they can stay as true to their M roots (high redline cars, for example) even while utilizing turbo technologies which, until recently, have been unable to accomodate certain hallmarks of M cars, like high redlines.

[Simsims]

Originally Posted by jpuff

The new McLaren has a 8600rpm redline and it's a twin turbo V8 that holds boost and torque to redline. I think turbo tech has come a long ways and I'm sure BMW will implement new technologies so that they can stay as true to their M roots (high redline cars, for example) even while utilizing turbo technologies which, until recently, have been unable to accomodate certain hallmarks of M cars, like high redlines.

what makes you think they can give you a 45k car with McLaren technology in it?

[dmboone25]

[QUOTE=jpuff;7937888]The new McLaren has a 8600rpm redline and it's a twin turbo V8 that holds boost and torque to redline. I think turbo tech has come a long ways and I'm sure BMW will implement new technologies so that they can stay as true to their M roots (high redline cars, for example) even while utilizing turbo technologies which, until recently, have been unable to accomodate certain hallmarks of M cars, like high redlines.[/QUOTE

How much is the McLaren again? That's right--waaaaay more than the 1M...

Name another performance car comparable to the 1M that is 50K and brand new that achieves this--that's right, there are none!

It is obviously possible to achieve a high revving, turbocharged engine...if you have unlimited resources--which is not the case with this car....

[nova_G]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Name another performance car comparable to the 1M that is 50K and brand new that achieves this--that's right, there are none!

FWIW, a 370z/Nismo 370z or the new 5.0 Mustang are comparable...strictly in performance.

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/4...20de9d62a.html

[SlicktopTTZ]

Guys, high-revving engines and turbos aren't anything new, or hard to do. You size a turbo using its compressor map and plotting an engine using displacement, volumetric efficiency, and your desired RPM range.

If you had more RPM you could keep the same turbo and choke it, or get a larger turbo to make more torque in that extra RPM range, while sacrificing torque in the lower RPM range.

This is a very basic answer but I'm at work and don't have time to go into detail.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

Guys, high-revving engines and turbos aren't anything new, or hard to do. You size a turbo using its compressor map and plotting an engine using displacement, volumetric efficiency, and your desired RPM range.

If you had more RPM you could keep the same turbo and choke it, or get a larger turbo to make more torque in that extra RPM range, while sacrificing torque in the lower RPM range.

This is a very basic answer but I'm at work and don't have time to go into detail.

This is why I wonder, how come we don't see more variable vaned turbos? They have been in use in diesel engines and Porsche uses them in the 997 Turbo.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by nova_G

FWIW, a 370z/Nismo 370z or the new 5.0 Mustang are comparable...strictly in performance.

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/4...20de9d62a.html

Fair enough, but....

Performance yes--refinement, maybe.

I guess I was thinking in terms of BMW's "normal" rivals with that statement...MB, Audi, Lexus....

[SlicktopTTZ]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

This is why I wonder, how come we don't see more variable vaned turbos? They have been in use in diesel engines and Porsche uses them in the 997 Turbo.

$$$?

[Evice]

1er is more of a GT, Z is more of a sports car. can't compare them that equally.

[MinusS50]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

Guys, high-revving engines and turbos aren't anything new, or hard to do. You size a turbo using its compressor map and plotting an engine using displacement, volumetric efficiency, and your desired RPM range.

If you had more RPM you could keep the same turbo and choke it, or get a larger turbo to make more torque in that extra RPM range, while sacrificing torque in the lower RPM range.

This is a very basic answer but I'm at work and don't have time to go into detail.

That a bit old fashion vision of Turbo. The problem of taking RPM on a turbo engine is due to be the back pressure generate by the turbine part so more big is the turbo less back pressure you generate at high rotation.

So if you have the 911 Turbo technology, you can fit a larger turbo with a VNT and take more rpm.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

$$$?

Sure, new technology is always more expensive initially, but it comes down in price over time.

[SlicktopTTZ]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Sure, new technology is always more expensive initially, but it comes down in price over time.

I understand, I'm saying maybe the reason BMW gave us tiny, journal-bearing turbos with cast manifolds is likely because of the cheapness to manufacture vs Variable-vane, ball-bearing, tubular manifold turbo setups. (which would be FUCKING AWESOME!)

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

I understand, I'm saying maybe the reason BMW gave us tiny, journal-bearing turbos with cast manifolds is likely because of the cheapness to manufacture vs Variable-vane, ball-bearing, tubular manifold turbo setups. (which would be FUCKING AWESOME!)

No doubt about that, I agree. I'm just thinking that with M cars becoming FI, it would be great to see these types of turbos used in the M cars. The existing turbos are perfectly fine for the regular series cars.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by formula M

I would bet that the M division entertained the idea of variable vaned turbos. Since they would be the most logical step, given the N54 design. The R&D would be minimal and adding another 1,300 rpm's to the top-end would do wonders for such an engine.

The new 1M might have a bi-turbo VVT ..!

Now that's what I'm talking about. Then combine that with Valvetronic for the F30 M3.

[Future M1 owner]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

I understand, I'm saying maybe the reason BMW gave us tiny, journal-bearing turbos with cast manifolds is likely because of the cheapness to manufacture vs Variable-vane, ball-bearing, tubular manifold turbo setups. (which would be FUCKING AWESOME!)

BMW's turbo suppliers are Borgwarner and MHI, and these manufacturers don't have dual-ballbearing turbos in their lineup.

[Madozu]

Originally Posted by Future M1 owner

BMW's turbo suppliers are Borgwarner and MHI, and these manufacturers don't have dual-ballbearing turbos in their lineup.

According to this Wikipedia article there is still hope

Main suppliers
Several companies supply the rotating vane type of variable geometry turbocharger, including Garrett (Honeywell), Borg Warner and MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries).

[Future M1 owner]

Originally Posted by Madozu

According to this Wikipedia article there is still hope

Main suppliers
Several companies supply the rotating vane type of variable geometry turbocharger, including Garrett (Honeywell), Borg Warner and MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries).

Variable geometry,yes, but ballbearing shafts are still the domain of Garrett Honeywell and IHI.

[jmunro]

Maybe when SCOTT says Hybrid it's an N54 except it has a twin scroll turbo (no valvetronic so it's not an N55)?