Safe tune?

[Shooto82]

i was wondering how can you determine your car engine tune is safe. Most of 1M tune companies around more or less to 400PS and my 1M produce the same with Ackra Slip on system and downpipe.

[CyRaX]

A good tune is one where you can see what is really going on inside your engine.
I would say: A/G ratio, oil temp and pressure and (since these are turbo engines) probably EGT.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Shooto82

i was wondering how can you determine your car engine tune is safe. Most of 1M tune companies around more or less to 400PS and my 1M produce the same with Ackra Slip on system and downpipe.

First of all, probably that is your dyno's optimism; a slip on with dps will not give you that much "real" power. I mean don't think that your stock 1M was with 340 ps and now jumped 60 hp to 400 with just those exhaust mods! But let's say it did, then why would you need more power through a tune which would make your brakes, tires and clutch, amongst others, pretty much insufficient and you would continue modding to keep up with new power.

For your information, I don't have an engine tune and neither a big fan of them.

So overall, in my opinion you are at the border with "safe".

A good tune with your existing mods would take you to a minimum 450 ps "at your dyno".

Did you see what your car was achieving before exhaust mods?

[MDORPHN]

Best to create a log through the OBDII port which you (or others) can then analyze. It will show boost, timing, temps, etc.

This is very simple to do with a Cobb Accessport.

Neil

[3rdgear]

Exhaust, intake, intercooler etc all claims to increase hp but my personal experience tells me that they makes the car smoother but i dont feel any extra power. But when I installed the Cobb, the car felt a lot stronger even tho the hp increase from Cobb is fairly small percentage comparing to other mods. I hope it's safe... I'm only at stage one and reluctant to go any higher as I have the same concern

[MDORPHN]

You guys need to get out more -- or, at least, spend some time on other N54 sites.

The N54 is a way under-stressed motor and can easily handle 500+ hp.

Neil

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Shooto82

i was wondering how can you determine your car engine tune is safe. Most of 1M tune companies around more or less to 400PS and my 1M produce the same with Ackra Slip on system and downpipe.

you can determine that by doing logs and seeing how the car is reacting to the tune. If you do not know how to read logs we would be more than happy to help you.

[Pete_vB]

I don't think there is any way to tell if a tune is completely safe.

The best you can do is find a tuner you have faith in. Sure if a car is overheating or detonating you'll be able to see that on logs. On the other hand the only way you're likely to know that a tune is for example overspeeding a turbo is when the turbo bearings start leaking oil 10k miles from now.

Clearly there are parameters like turbo speed, ignition advance, etc, that all tuners push, the question is how do they know where the line is? The answer is knowledge and experience. There are tuners that find the line by trial and error or creeping up to it, others that have more experience (perhaps with the factory or race programs) and have a better idea of the tradeoffs they are making.

It's important to understand there is no free lunch- tuning an already well tuned motor is a tradeoff, trading away emissions, safety margin, long term durability or the ability to run on average quality pump gas for an increase in output. You're unlikely to understand the full tradeoffs you're making for that output gain, so your goal is to find a tuner that does.

[MDORPHN]

Pete -

Good post.

I would note that the off-the-shelf Cobb tunes are very conservative.

Neil

[Shooto82]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

First of all, probably that is your dyno's optimism; a slip on with dps will not give you that much "real" power. I mean don't think that your stock 1M was with 340 ps and now jumped 60 hp to 400 with just those exhaust mods! But let's say it did, then why would you need more power through a tune which would make your brakes, tires and clutch, amongst others, pretty much insufficient and you would continue modding to keep up with new power.

For your information, I don't have an engine tune and neither a big fan of them.

So overall, in my opinion you are at the border with "safe".

A good tune with your existing mods would take you to a minimum 450 ps "at your dyno".

Did you see what your car was achieving before exhaust mods?

My car is tuned by PP-Performance, with 340Hp on the wheels and around 600Nm. after the tune, i had to change the clutch to Spec 2+ with fly wheels to cater the extra tourque.

the reason im asking is to avoid any extra mods, or damage the engine

[Shooto82]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

you can determine that by doing logs and seeing how the car is reacting to the tune. If you do not know how to read logs we would be more than happy to help you.

How??

[mike@x-ph.com]

if you do not know how to dot that, it is going to be very difficult to explain it to you in one post. But basically you can see how hard the turbos are working, if they are achieving boost, IAT, Ignition advance,etc....
Lots of useful info on the forum, and until you learn how to do all that we are here to help, just send me the logs and i will help you understand it.

[Piets94]

Originally Posted by Shooto82

My car is tuned by PP-Performance, with 340Hp on the wheels and around 600Nm. after the tune, i had to change the clutch to Spec 2+ with fly wheels to cater the extra tourque

How do you rate the PP tune? Were you told in advance to change the clutch or did it let go after the tune?

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by CyRaX

A good tune is one where you can see what is really going on inside your engine.
I would say: A/G ratio, oil temp and pressure and (since these are turbo engines) probably EGT.

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

I don't think there is any way to tell if a tune is completely safe.

The best you can do is find a tuner you have faith in. Sure if a car is overheating or detonating you'll be able to see that on logs. On the other hand the only way you're likely to know that a tune is for example overspeeding a turbo is when the turbo bearings start leaking oil 10k miles from now.

Clearly there are parameters like turbo speed, ignition advance, etc, that all tuners push, the question is how do they know where the line is? The answer is knowledge and experience. There are tuners that find the line by trial and error or creeping up to it, others that have more experience (perhaps with the factory or race programs) and have a better idea of the tradeoffs they are making.

It's important to understand there is no free lunch- tuning an already well tuned motor is a tradeoff, trading away emissions, safety margin, long term durability or the ability to run on average quality pump gas for an increase in output. You're unlikely to understand the full tradeoffs you're making for that output gain, so your goal is to find a tuner that does.

Both these statements.

One reason why I decided to step away from a WRX or a STi when I bought my E82, is that their stock tune runs incredibly lean, and have blown motors that resulted in that tune. Even with aftermarket companies, under boost the A/F runs stupid lean and I didn't feel like replacing a short-block

[Shooto82]

Originally Posted by Piets94

How do you rate the PP tune? Were you told in advance to change the clutch or did it let go after the tune?

not sure about rating however they are espaciallaize in ///M and AMGs. To be honest they didn’t mention anything about changing clutch, I only figured it out when my clutch started slipping.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by Shooto82

My car is tuned by PP-Performance, with 340Hp on the wheels and around 600Nm. after the tune, i had to change the clutch to Spec 2+ with fly wheels to cater the extra tourque.

the reason im asking is to avoid any extra mods, or damage the engine

Do you know what type of dyno this was on, and can you post a dyno curve?

You're making over 440 ft lbs to the wheels, stock intercooler, what octane gas?

That's quite a lot of torque, depending on the dyno I would be somewhat concerned that you're running very high boost pressures to a car with relatively few modifications. Higher than I might be comfortable with...

[Shooto82]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Do you know what type of dyno this was on, and can you post a dyno curve?

You're making over 440 ft lbs to the wheels, stock intercooler, what octane gas?

That's quite a lot of torque, depending on the dyno I would be somewhat concerned that you're running very high boost pressures to a car with relatively few modifications. Higher than I might be comfortable with...

sorry for the bad image, took it by taking a picture of it, hope its clear. the run was done on 95 octane but to be honest its poor quality gas. my mods are ackra slip on system with down pipe and sport K&N sport filter. I managed to measure the boost, its 16psi and overboost 19psi .

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by Shooto82

sorry for the bad image, took it by taking a picture of it, hope its clear. the run was done on 95 octane but to be honest its poor quality gas. my mods are ackra slip on system with down pipe and sport K&N sport filter. I managed to measure the boost, its 16psi and overboost 19psi .

So that's not out of line with what other tuners are getting on a dynojet, which is a good sign, but it's still quite a lot. This is ESS with an intercooler:

If you have reason to suspect your gas isn't great I'd be uncomfortable running something like that, but that's me.

[BMWJS]

Does anyone have experience/knowledge with Dinan stage 2 software? Is it conservative enough or is it likely to cause excessive engine or clutch wear?

[Slats]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

The N54 is a way under-stressed motor and can easily handle 500+ hp.

Neil

Got that. The real question is whether any given driver can handle 500+ hp in one of these go-carts.

I would wager Neil can, based on what my stepson, who met him on One Lap a few years ago, has said. As for me - having a healthy fear of this car's stock power, coupled with a realistic self-appraisal of my driving skills - no way.

Go to any HPDE and the first thing the instructors will grin about are guys like me who ought to learn how to maneuver an E30 four-banger around the track before getting behind the wheel of a horsepower monster on steroids.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Shooto82

sorry for the bad image, took it by taking a picture of it, hope its clear. the run was done on 95 octane but to be honest its poor quality gas. my mods are ackra slip on system with down pipe and sport K&N sport filter. I managed to measure the boost, its 16psi and overboost 19psi .

FIFTY LASHES FOR USING POOR QUALITY FUEL!

[godzilla-1]

i always run the higher grade unleaded in my performance cars and have always had them tuned to this octane. I wasconsidering a cobb tune but if they are based on your us grade watered down fuel i wont be achieving anywhere near the power that i could be if my car was specifically mapped for 99 octane gas. Am i correct ??????