Why did you buy Nav. or Active Steer?

[dick w]

AS changes lock-to-lock turns. IIRC, I read somewhere that in the 1 series this is something like 3+ turns lock to lock above 50mph or so and as low as something like 2 turns lock to lock at "low" (20? 10? 5?) speeds.

One source: http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/technology/afs.htm. Another: http://www.ika.rwth-aachen.de/verans...assistance.pdf. Another:

. Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Steering. From here: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ons/Power.aspx.

Active Steering
When BMW first introduced Active Steering to the market in 2003, our drivers weren't the only ones who were impressed. It received the Innovation Award of German Industry, too. The technology allows for a variable steering ratio based on your speed. At low speeds, steering is nimble (10:1) for easy navigation in tight spaces. At high speeds, greater movement of the steering wheel is required to turn the front wheels the same amount (18:1), for increased stability. Most car companies split the difference with a constant 14:1 ratio, but we're not ones to compromise - even with our steering ratio.

This is the first source I recall reading that indicates AS provides less than "normal" response at high speeds, so perhaps I'm learning something here as well.

I have not seen any spec on steering ratio (spec'd in these terms--I'm not sure exactly what this is a ratio of, I assume it's angular input at the steering wheel to steering angle of the front wheels) for the 1 with or without AS. But this general statement would suggest that, indeed, the steering would make smaller change in vehicle direction with the same input at high speeds. This seems like a reasonable thing since you aren't turning the steering great amounts at high speeds or you end up in the next county or skidding. But I stand by the assertion that their prime objective was increasing nimbleness--proportional reaction to steering inputs--at low speeds. 1/8 of a turn at 80 MPH is a pretty radical thing so whether it's 1/8 or 6/64 isn't so big a deal. OTOH, a full turn at 15mph is fairly common and the difference between a full turn and, say, 2/3 of a turn of the steering wheel is a LOT.

There are many more sources including the sales brochures and the OM. Lots of people, I think, confuse AS with changing the power ratio--more assist at low speed, less at high speed--which isn't what AS is trying to do.

[cpt97m3]

Originally Posted by DVDA

Really? I thought you had to buy a update CD?

It's a DVD, buy yes, you need to order a new DVD to get map updates.

I ordered my '09 with iDrive/Nav, and I'm really glad I did. It's very nice to use with an iPod, since the iDrive controller works very much like the native iPod controller, and it's easy to choose a list of songs or playlists. Same for choosing radio stations. You can put in up to 40 preset stations, and scroll between them. I already have a TomTom portable nav for my car that has no nav, but I still prefer the built-in Nav for the integration, and the fact that it's always in the car when I need it. The '09 iDrive is really a nice system, and works great with my bluetooth phone and iPod.

[DVDA]

Originally Posted by cage

Oh well, still worth it! I'll have to give my CA a call tomorrow and see if I can guilt him into a free update or two for BS'ing me.

I definetly would, tell him it was the basis of the bargain...you purchased the car with Navi cause you thought updates were free

[Vaaaan]

Originally Posted by dick w

AS changes lock-to-lock turns. IIRC, I read somewhere that in the 1 series this is something like 3+ turns lock to lock above 50mph or so and as low as something like 2 turns lock to lock at "low" (20? 10? 5?) speeds.

One source: http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/technology/afs.htm. Another: http://www.ika.rwth-aachen.de/verans...assistance.pdf. Another:

. Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Steering. From here: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ons/Power.aspx.



This is the first source I recall reading that indicates AS provides less than "normal" response at high speeds, so perhaps I'm learning something here as well.

I have not seen any spec on steering ratio (spec'd in these terms--I'm not sure exactly what this is a ratio of, I assume it's angular input at the steering wheel to steering angle of the front wheels) for the 1 with or without AS. But this general statement would suggest that, indeed, the steering would make smaller change in vehicle direction with the same input at high speeds. This seems like a reasonable thing since you aren't turning the steering great amounts at high speeds or you end up in the next county or skidding. But I stand by the assertion that their prime objective was increasing nimbleness--proportional reaction to steering inputs--at low speeds. 1/8 of a turn at 80 MPH is a pretty radical thing so whether it's 1/8 or 6/64 isn't so big a deal. OTOH, a full turn at 15mph is fairly common and the difference between a full turn and, say, 2/3 of a turn of the steering wheel is a LOT.

There are many more sources including the sales brochures and the OM. Lots of people, I think, confuse AS with changing the power ratio--more assist at low speed, less at high speed--which isn't what AS is trying to do.

Great post thanks for all the sources

I agree that the main purpose is for parking/low speed maneuvers, but just wanted to clarify that it does actually have a higher ratio than non-AS at high speeds. It's still not really clear though, I'll try to find that spec sheet I mentioned.

Also, the brochure says that AS includes yaw compensation, or "automatic, subtle steering adjustments" if the car begins to swerve while braking.

I ordered AS for all 3 reasons - high speed, low speed, and yaw. But I have to admit the higher ratio at high speed is what made me want it the most. I hate driving at high speeds in most cars because I feel like if I cough or twitch I'll flip the car.

And on the topic of the thread, I chose AS over NAV because a) I've never used NAV and don't need it (similar to how other people never had AS and don't need it), and b) I didn't want a big screen sitting on top of the dash, and c) I'd rather focus on driving. Also I test drove a 335i w/ AS and when I pulled back into the dealership to park it was extremely smooth and easy. Had I gotten the NAV it would have been for the DVD capability and hard drive, two things I really would have liked. Yet another reason would be that there are plenty of aftermarket NAV systems, but exactly zero aftermarket AS systems.

[Jaguar66]

!

[DVDA]

Originally Posted by RobMason

Navigation is one option I don't know how anyone who is tech oriented, could live without.

I am very "tech oriented" but for $2,000 I would rather buy a new laptop

[Jaguar66]

!

[DVDA]

Originally Posted by RobMason

I would rather have both.

If I could afford both I would buy a new 2010 M3 instead of looking for a used 2008 M3

[Ajumepke]

iDrive is win.
Cool features.

You can watch DVDs while the car is in park.

Import your music with up to 8 gigs of space. (if you don't have Ipod/Iphone this is good alternative) - Also if you don't have the adaptor thingy - it'll disable phone mode so your Iphone is just a music player.

Pre-set Cooling feature - on a hot day - you can set the car to vent out hot air before you get into the car.

4 year BMW Assist subscription included. (which doubles as LoJack)- you can get discounts on your insurance (check to see if you insurance qualifies BMWAssist for discount)

Monitor you car status - tires pressures etc etc / trip computer on a bigger screen.

Voice Activated Commands.

HD Radio basically included. Great for NPR.

Real Time Traffic Updates



If you don't care about any of these things in addition to the navigation capabilities - the it's not worth it.

But I love mine.

[Jaguar66]

!

[xbook]

Originally Posted by Ajumepke

...Pre-set Cooling feature - on a hot day - you can set the car to vent out hot air before you get into the car...

This feature alone is worth the extra $25 on my payment for idrive. Here in LA it's been around 100 for the past 2 weeks. It is really nice to get out of work, and have my car be much cooler than if I didn't have that feature.

Plus if you are already spending north of $40k, what's another 2 grand.

Get iDrive, leave off active steering. That's my opinion.

[dick w]

Originally Posted by Ajumepke

Pre-set Cooling feature - on a hot day - you can set the car to vent out hot air before you get into the car.

That is a pretty spiffy feature. Until this thread I'd never seen it cited anywhere. It's in the iDrive car OM. But it's not in the brochure nor did I ever see it on BMWs website. I'm not sure it would have made me change my mind and get navi. But I might have thought about it longer.

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by DVDA

I am very "tech oriented" but for $2,000 I would rather buy a new laptop

Actually i plan to get a double din radio that will have Nav inside and dvd player, etc. So although im into tech stuff i think ill go my own route..for $2k i can put in a really nice setup including install.

[moveswiftly]

I ordered navigation not because of the navi itself, but because of what it connects together.

[wmo168]

Originally Posted by infinitekid2002

Actually i plan to get a double din radio that will have Nav inside and dvd player, etc. So although im into tech stuff i think ill go my own route..for $2k i can put in a really nice setup including install.

Order with Nav and forget Active Steering. I just order my car with iDrive (Nav) and I also included Park Distance Sensor since with the Nav it shown how far you are back to the objects.

Nav does have many additional control and it makes your 1 series more high tech. Worth the $1900. Beside it have 3D images google maps in the new one....

LASTLY THE new 09+ IDRIVE PLAY DVD's MOVIE when in PARK, or you can mod it to play while in motion!!! THIS IS A MUST!!!!! not found in older iDrive.

[DVDA]

From what i heard wmo the dealership's know how to "mod" it

[singular]

Originally Posted by DVDA

I am very "tech oriented" but for $2,000 I would rather buy a new laptop

Why spend $2000 on a laptop when you can get a mini-Dell for $300?

[DVDA]

Cause Dell blows, I would rather build a "good" laptop from scratch

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by singular

Why spend $2000 on a laptop when you can get a mini-Dell for $300?

Because it's a Dell... Mac is full of win.

[singular]

Originally Posted by DVDA

Cause Dell blows, I would rather build a "good" laptop from scratch

Well, gotta agree on your brand comment, but, there are a lot of different brands of mini-laptops out right now for around $300 that handle much of what you can do with a $2000 laptop.

I think you kind of made my point for me. The portable Nav units are way cheaper and even navigate better, but, IMHO, the integration in the iDrive of everything and the improvements in the 2009 is worth the extra cost.

[Vaaaan]

I finally found the spec sheet that actually shows both ratios, from BMW itself. Hopefully this puts to rest the idea that AS only 'works' at low speeds.

Here is a screenshot:



See for yourself here (page 334):

http://www.e90fanatics.com/pdf/BMW-2009-Fast-Facts.pdf

[dick w]

Cool! That confirms two things:

1. the difference in steering ratio at high speed is comparatively small (+12.5%) but at low speed is huge (-32.5%). This also suggests that the effect at high speeds--where small angular changes are the norm--would be much more subtle that its effect at low speeds. But I am somewhat confused that is says the lock-to-lock ends up the same at 3.0 in either case. I'm not sure how this can be true if, at +/- 1.5 turns or +/- 520 degrees of angular input at the steering wheel, the angle of the front wheels is still the same. It seems to me that the lock-to-lock should increase by the same 12.5% at the high end.

2. both stock and AS vary the power ratio. But the stock varies it as a function of engine speed and AS as a function of vehicle speed. Of course, you don't want more power assist in 3rd gear at 80 than in 6th gear, so that's another reason that, on the face, the AS design makes more sense.