Oil Cooler

[TimMc]

I've just bought Andrew's PPK, minus the tune. It came with an 850w radiator fan and an extra water radiator that fits under the LH headlight. I used to think it was an extra oil cooler this kit ran too.

[alik01]

Originally Posted by TimMc

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 1M has one oil cooler as per the 135 & an extra water cooler under the LH headlight as per the N54 BMW Performance Kit.

Originally Posted by Zuzu

You could be correct here Tim.. I did some research, but had a mixed conclusion, to whether its a extra oil cooler or extra radiator.

I know the 1M uses the 850 watt radiator fan, instead of the 650 watt in the 135i as in the PPK upgrade.

Maybe someone can chime in with some deffinate answer.

Yes a definite answer on this would be good. I thought it was twin oil cooler, but after seeing the puny thing JD had gutted out and seeing the Advan unit, I was sold.


Also, do we know if running at 135-140C is bad for the engine per say?

[pavo335]

Originally Posted by TimMc

I've just bought Andrew's PPK, minus the tune. It came with an 850w radiator fan and an extra water radiator that fits under the LH headlight. I used to think it was an extra oil cooler this kit ran too.

tim if you don't want it let me know and i'll take it off your hands

[alik01]

Originally Posted by TimMc

I've just bought Andrew's PPK, minus the tune. It came with an 850w radiator fan and an extra water radiator that fits under the LH headlight. I used to think it was an extra oil cooler this kit ran too.

It seems, there is only a surprisingly small amount of info out there on specific bit of the 1M.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by TimMc

I've just bought Andrew's PPK, minus the tune. It came with an 850w radiator fan and an extra water radiator that fits under the LH headlight. I used to think it was an extra oil cooler this kit ran too.

I passed up buying it because I thought it can with an oil cooler too.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by alik01

Sorry mate, perhaps I should have been clearer. It is a 1M. Are we able to determine 1M fitment for the kit?

Hey mate,

I honestly did not know you had a 1M, I think we are going to have a problem then.

After seeing a few 1M's in the workshop from what I recall the airflow ducts on the front bar, are quite a bit different to those of the 135i M sport bar the kit was designed around.

I can certainly make a close inspection of a 1M front bar, but we would really need to fit a 20 row cooler up minus the oil lines etc. to check how much of the core if any, is actually seeing clean air.

That is where the problem lies as I suspect I will be hard pressed to find a 1M owner in Sydney, who is prepared to let us tinker with their pride and joy in such a way.

Let me have a chat to Pete and see what his thoughts are on the matter.

Cheers,

JD.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by alik01

Thanks for that info Ianf. Looks good.

I'm just concerned about the long term effects of running the engine at those temps.

Hey mate,

you should be concerned as heat kills motors.

It is all well and good for Ian to reference figures at which the DME begins to protect the engine, however those figures were based around a stock 135i motor producing 225 kW, possibly a bit more.

The mechanical stress, cylinder pressures and thermal load on a motor producing 325+ kW is far more substantial.

Whilst a stock 1M is not producing that kind of power and it would benefit to some degree from the supplemental rad, it's still rather dangerous to accept sustained running temps beyond 120 degrees Celsius, when the engine internals are being highly stressed and the whole reciprocating mass is spinning to 6,000+ rpm.

Fortunately the AFR's of a stock 1M are as safe as houses, when compared to the "lean and mean" tune of a 135i, so those rich and safe running conditions will go along way to ensuring the engine does not knock, even though the motor on a whole maybe "steaming under the collar".

However running the engine at 130-140+ degrees Celsius under WOT track conditions, will certainly be detrimental to the longevity of the engine.

I will see what I can do to confirm fitment of our Stage 2 kit to your 1M.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by TimMc

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 1M has one oil cooler as per the 135 & an extra water cooler under the LH headlight as per the N54 BMW Performance Kit.

Originally Posted by Zuzu

You could be correct here Tim.. I did some research, but had a mixed conclusion, to whether its a extra oil cooler or extra radiator.

I know the 1M uses the 850 watt radiator fan, instead of the 650 watt in the 135i as in the PPK upgrade.

Maybe someone can chime in with some deffinate answer.

Hey Tim,

you are most certainly correct Sir.

Your 1M would utilise a plain Jane 135i oil cooler and the supplemental rad' from the BMW PPK, which looks like this..

Is it just me or does this unit very closely resemble the oil cooler that was ripped from my car.

[alik01]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

Hey mate,

I honestly did not know you had a 1M, I think we are going to have a problem then.

After seeing a few 1M's in the workshop from what I recall the airflow ducts on the front bar, are quite a bit different to those of the 135i M sport bar the kit was designed around.

I can certainly make a close inspection of a 1M front bar, but we would really need to fit a 20 row cooler up minus the oil lines etc. to check how much of the core if any, is actually seeing clean air.

That is where the problem lies as I suspect I will be hard pressed to find a 1M owner in Sydney, who is prepared to let us tinker with their pride and joy in such a way.

Let me have a chat to Pete and see what his thoughts are on the matter.

Cheers,

JD.

Thanks JD. I appreciate your feedback on this. I have to apologize again for not stressing the 1M.

I would appreciate some solution to enhancing the cooling on the 1M, even if it is not this particular solution. I definitely understand that 1M owners would be rather apprehensive.

In order to cover Peter and yourself, I am happy to pay your margin on the kit you would have sold me. This way the other 4 members can enjoy the group but pricing.

I am happy for you to PM me on this.

Thank you again.

[Drawn05]

Will the PWR MT radiator work on a AT system?

I would prefer to have a separate radiator and AT cooler rather than a combined set-up which I assume is a compromise for space. Whilst my car never entered limp mode the performance of the transmission was certainly diminished and not up to a track day without better cooling.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by Drawn05

Will the PWR MT radiator work on a AT system?

I would prefer to have a separate radiator and AT cooler rather than a combined set-up which I assume is a compromise for space. Whilst my car never entered limp mode the performance of the transmission was certainly diminished and not up to a track day without better cooling.

Negatory, the MT will not fit.

After confirmation that the PPK does consist of an extra radiator, why doesn't Advan copy the design and improve on it. I'm sure it would be much more economical too.

[1q2w3e4r]

Why don't you just confirm the part numbers for the 1M and 135 radiators? Easy enough to do online with a VIN no? The 1M VIN's should show in the system now I would imagine.

[Drawn05]

Damn, is nothing simple?

[1q2w3e4r]

Originally Posted by Drawn05

Damn, is nothing simple?

Thought my suggestion was simple enough!

1M part numbers for RHD Australian delivered cars.
Oil cooler part number 17217564702
Engine oil cooler pipe for flow is 17227573273
Engine oil cooler piper for return is 17227573274

[Drawn05]

Originally Posted by 1q2w3e4r

Thought my suggestion was simple enough!

1M part numbers for RHD Australian delivered cars.
Oil cooler part number 17217564702
Engine oil cooler pipe for flow is 17227573273
Engine oil cooler piper for return is 17227573274

No, I was referring to vinneys post that the radiator on the MT wont fit with an AT car apparantly. Just seems like BMW make everything difficult.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by Drawn05

No, I was referring to vinneys post that the radiator on the MT wont fit with an AT car apparantly. Just seems like BMW make everything difficult.

Advan has a AT rad in the works but last I checked it's around $1200-$1300 and there's not enough interest for it at this stage. Plus it incorporates the close mesh design which has its downsides for daily driving. Should be great on track though.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by alik01

Thanks JD. I appreciate your feedback on this. I have to apologize again for not stressing the 1M.

I would appreciate some solution to enhancing the cooling on the 1M, even if it is not this particular solution. I definitely understand that 1M owners would be rather apprehensive.

In order to cover Peter and yourself, I am happy to pay your margin on the kit you would have sold me. This way the other 4 members can enjoy the group but pricing.

I am happy for you to PM me on this.

Thank you again.

Hey mate,

with regards the 1M & 135i mixup, that's cool no harm done.

Whilst Peter and I appreciate the offer of reimbursement and indeed it's a very gentlemanly gesture, do not worry about that.

Truth be told the margin on the kits at the GB pricing is very small anyway.

The other 4 members on the list will receive the GB pricing, however after those guys have been squared away, all further kits will be sold at their retail prices.

Cheers,

JD.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by ianf

Good points! Would be interesting to know if LHS is water or oil cooler? I'd expect fitment and fabrication of another cooler will be an issue either way.

What about a larger main water radiator on the 1M?

Originally Posted by ianf

Seems the LHS is an AUX water radiator on the 1M...same as PPK.

Hey Ian,

sure, no problem.

I am quite certain the LHS cooler factory fitted to the 1M is a supplemental radiator.

Also I imagine the 1M primary rad' is the same as the rad' found in any MT N54. I have not researched that fact, but I suspect if the 1M radiator was an improvement over the OE MT 135i radiator, the auxiliary rad' would not have been fitted to the 1M.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by Drawn05

Will the PWR MT radiator work on a AT system?

I would prefer to have a separate radiator and AT cooler rather than a combined set-up which I assume is a compromise for space. Whilst my car never entered limp mode the performance of the transmission was certainly diminished and not up to a track day without better cooling.

Hi Steve,

the PWR MT rad' could be fitted to an AT vehicle but you would have to install a stand alone trans cooler, thereby deleting the OE transmission heat exchanger that would no longer function without the fittings and cross-flow baffle, incorporated into the factory AT radiator.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Negatory, the MT will not fit.

After confirmation that the PPK does consist of an extra radiator, why doesn't Advan copy the design and improve on it. I'm sure it would be much more economical too.

Hey Vinney,

my research strongly suggests that the external dimensions of the AT rad' are the same as those of the MT rad'.

To be honest I imagine Peter would rather simply toss that "extra radiator" in the bin, than attempt to improve upon it.

He has a concept for a his 335i that would see a substantially larger primary radiator installed, but it will also require a new intercooler to be designed and fitted.

The above system would also see a supplemental trans cooler fitted up, whilst retaining the use of the OE transmission heat exchanger.

[alik01]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

Hey mate,

with regards the 1M & 135i mixup, that's cool no harm done.

Whilst Peter and I appreciate the offer of reimbursement and indeed it's a very gentlemanly gesture, do not worry about that.

Truth be told the margin on the kits at the GB pricing is very small anyway.

The other 4 members on the list will receive the GB pricing, however after those guys have been squared away, all further kits will be sold at their retail prices.

Cheers,

JD.

Hey mate,

Don't know about gentlemanly, but it's the right thing to do. So my offer stands, if it helps at all.

In regards to the system, I am still interested and willing of we can make it work on a 1M or even something different. I don't know the water temps but oil temps are certainly high - suppose the two are related.

I am in the GB for the P3 Guage so will be able to have more info on hand.

Thank you.

[pavo335]

To be honest I have been surprised that on the two track days I haven't seen any adverse oil temps. I have a dct and jb4 with 'max cool' turned on and the max oil temp was 120, which after sitting in the pits for 2-5 minutes dropped to 105.