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      01-07-2007, 10:28 PM   #1
bryan@mwerks
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1 Series News From Detroit Auto Show

I'm here in Detroit covering the auto show for MWerks. Spent some talking with one of my contacts at BMW today, and while he can't speculate on future product, he did confirm a couple things for me.

First (and perhaps most important for this particular site), there are absolutely no plans to call any variants of the 1 Series platform a 2 Series. He stated unequivocally there will NOT be a 2 Series. It was a speculative rumor started by Automobile magazine, and there was never any internal discussion about it. Likewise for 3 Series coupes to be renamed 4 Series.

Now, about 1 Series variations. My particular contact more or less expects me to bug him for 1er updates every time we talk. I always ask about the coupe specifically. Again, while he can't speculate on future product, he did say that the Geneva Auto Show at the end of February would satisfy my curiousities about variations. Reading between the lines, I'm assuming they'll show a coupe at Geneva.

In another part of our discussion, and once again reading between the lines, it sounds like the 1 Series will make its North American debut here as a 2008 model, probably next November at the Los Angeles show, though BMW is also fond of launching new models at Detroit.

I'll give you more as I hear it.
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      01-08-2007, 07:13 AM   #2
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Thanks for the info Bryan...
So, it sounds like we get a coupe, but it will be designated as a 1-series and it's about a year, maybe less, away.
Note to Freak and Harold...back to 1-cult?
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Oh, congrats to me on my 300th post!
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      01-08-2007, 08:48 AM   #3
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Lol who knows. Honestly, who cares what its called, as long as it comes out!! We'll rename this site again to cult1 when this car comes out I really hope this new geneva rumor pans out, that would be a killer show for BMW if they plan on releasing the new M3 as well...

PS congrats on the post


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      01-08-2007, 10:34 AM   #4
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Anything wrong with 1addicts.com?

Thanks for the milestone post, Bryan!
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      01-08-2007, 02:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan@mwerks View Post
First (and perhaps most important for this particular site), there are absolutely no plans to call any variants of the 1 Series platform a 2 Series. He stated unequivocally there will NOT be a 2 Series.
damn, Damn, DAMN! And I already had my vanity plate picked out! It'll still work without the car being called a 2, but won't be nearly as cool. Some badge engineering may be in order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan@mwerks View Post
In another part of our discussion, and once again reading between the lines, it sounds like the 1 Series will make its North American debut here as a 2008 model, probably next November at the Los Angeles show, though BMW is also fond of launching new models at Detroit.
Oh well, I'll take good news along with bad! I'll be waiting for that Autoweek with bated breath. Thanks for the info!
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      01-08-2007, 03:17 PM   #6
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I'm afraid things may not be so hopeful after all. I ran into another one of my BMW contacts today and asked him about future products, told him what I had heard yesterday and prodded for his input. I also asked point-blank, "Will we see a coupe, a convertible and a sedan?"

From our discussion I was able to glean that a 2-door 1 Series coupe is unlikely for any market, as is the possibility of a true wagon. The final mix will likely be 2-door softtop convertble, 3-door coupe, 4-door sedan and 5-door sedan.

It now sounds as though we can look for the debut of the 1 Series as a convertible (and likely the 3-door as well) at Geneva. The spy photos and Nurburgring videos don't lie- that car is in development. I would expect the 4-door sedan to follow in the fall at Frankfort. And while he couldn't comment on the US launch date, he did indicate that a 1 Series will be on sale in the US during 2008.

I'd still love to see a 1 Series coupe, but it's sounding less and less likely.
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      01-08-2007, 03:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan@mwerks View Post
I'm afraid things may not be so hopeful after all. I ran into another one of my BMW contacts today and asked him about future products, told him what I had heard yesterday and prodded for his input. I also asked point-blank, "Will we see a coupe, a convertible and a sedan?"

From our discussion I was able to glean that a 2-door 1 Series coupe is unlikely for any market, as is the possibility of a true wagon. The final mix will likely be 2-door softtop convertble, 3-door coupe, 4-door sedan and 5-door sedan.

It now sounds as though we can look for the debut of the 1 Series as a convertible (and likely the 3-door as well) at Geneva. The spy photos and Nurburgring videos don't lie- that car is in development. I would expect the 4-door sedan to follow in the fall at Frankfort. And while he couldn't comment on the US launch date, he did indicate that a 1 Series will be on sale in the US during 2008.

I'd still love to see a 1 Series coupe, but it's sounding less and less likely.

Take it with an extrme grain of salt. BMW denied there would ever be a Z4 M Roadster. They also denied till the day it was released there would ever be a Z4 Coupe. We've already seen the softtop undergoing testing which they do many times when designing a coupe/roadster variant car (design the softtop version first, then the coupe).
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      01-08-2007, 08:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwfreak View Post
Take it with an extrme grain of salt. BMW denied there would ever be a Z4 M Roadster. They also denied till the day it was released there would ever be a Z4 Coupe. We've already seen the softtop undergoing testing which they do many times when designing a coupe/roadster variant car (design the softtop version first, then the coupe).
I pretty much see it the same way...it just seems that there is such a groundswell out here for a coupe.

What I do worry about is BMW's obsession about beating Benz to the punch-
and right now the sloped roof 3-door is getting a lot of play...a lot of long looks in terms of trying to define an appropriate body, or format, for the next decade....
and the coupe, in spite of being a classic and totally in proportion to the 1-series size, may have the perception (to BMW) of signifying retro or been-there-did-that.

I'm still very optimistic...keep in mind no one from BMW has said on the record, carved in stone, what the models will be- what I know for sure is that there's some cabrio's out there testing and that every article I read says no hatch for N/A.

From what I hear, BMW mediapool will release official pics of the mildly restyled 1-series 3-door hatch in week 3 of this month...and these introduction dates are usually about the time that other pics/photoshops and further info on the "1" line-up coincidentally appear to flesh things out and extend the buzz.
This I definitely expect because the hatch isn't coming to N/A so BMW or Huckfeldt or some enterprising photog who's been tipped of will release something for us over on the other side of the Atlantic to get excited about.
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      01-08-2007, 09:53 PM   #9
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While the 3-dr hatch would be good, it wouldn't have the icon potential of a two-door coupe. BMW has to know that. And we don't need a small 4-dr - we can get a 3-series if we want four doors. And BMW already sells a very successful 3-dr hatch under the Mini nameplate - so why duplicate?

Give us what we want, BMW... Give us what we need... A 2-dr coupe!!!!!!
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      01-10-2007, 11:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudwest View Post

Give us what we want, BMW... Give us what we need... A 2-dr coupe!!!!!!
That was my sentiment as well with the second person I talked to. However, he made it pretty clear that a two-door coupe is primarily the desire of, as he put it, "club-type enthusasts," among which he includes himself. The problem is BMW is running a business, not a club. In order to be profitable on a small model that must understandably be cheaper than the 3 Series (despite using many of its major systems), there must be sufficient volume or a price premium. Hence the convertible first, because people will always pay up for a droptop. The convertible will also set the bar for the car's image. That way when the sedan (aka, the volume model) is introduced, it won't be perceived as a "cheap" car. Based on that conversation, it sounds as though they feel the coupe would have a very limited appeal. (I personally disagree, as does everyone here I'm sure)

I argued back that the coupe could utilize much of the convertible's bodywork to keep costs minimal, but he insisted that would actually translate into very minimal, if any, savings. It's not like the old days when a convertible was essentially a chopped coupe.

None of us truly knows what will eventually be revealed. I guess we should be happy they are even committing to any form of 1 Series for America. My recent conversations leave me less confident that a coupe will ever materialize. If the closest I can get is a 130i sedan, I'll probably jump on it.
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      01-10-2007, 01:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan@mwerks View Post
I guess we should be happy they are even committing to any form of 1 Series for America... If the closest I can get is a 130i sedan, I'll probably jump on it.
Despite all the enthusiasm for a coupe, my think is along the same lines. Heck that three door hatch would be enough get me through the showroom door....
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      01-10-2007, 02:22 PM   #12
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You know what...I wouldn't get a sedan in a 1 series.
If there's no coupe or coupe-like alternative, I'll stick with the Z4 or consider other options.

This plan that we're hearing doesn't even sound like BMW knows what they are doing. I'm tired of "sporty sedans".
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      01-10-2007, 04:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan@mwerks View Post
My recent conversations leave me less confident that a coupe will ever materialize. If the closest I can get is a 130i sedan, I'll probably jump on it.
I think that's why BMW is prepared to forego the coupe.
Those who want a coupe will probably settle for a sedan in the absence of a coupe.
Those of us who want a Cabriolet will not settle for any other 1er variant.
If I can't get the 1er Cab, I'll get for the Audi A3 cabriolet.
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      01-11-2007, 09:08 AM   #14
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I just dont see the logic at all in making this type of car as a convert only, convertables always sell in much lower volumes then their coupe counterparts. Except in the case of a roadster, which this car is not. I think BMW is using their usual tactic of denying everything as long as possible and are simply designing the coupe as a convert first because the result is a superiorly engineered coupe and vert.
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      01-11-2007, 12:00 PM   #15
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I don't see the point of a sedan, acutally. Sure, sedans are practical and make good sense for families. But if one wants a Bimmer and wants four doors and a trunk, an entry-level 3-series is about as small as is practical for those who need them. I just don't see a family guy (or girl) opting for a sedan smaller than the 3-series. Whereas the coupe would be novel in the 1-series price bracket. The 3-series coupe has become high-end and is largely out of reach, so a 1-series coupe would really spice up BMWs entry-level offerings for all kinds that would otherwise buy GTIs, A3s, Civic Sis and Mazdaspeed 3s. Now some may raise the point about exclusivity and image, but, at the end of it, BMW wants to be profitable and to make that happen you have to be accessible. And if image were an issue, you'd never see conjoined BMW/Mini showrooms.

I'm still hopeful that the coupe is on. It just seems to make more sense.
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      01-11-2007, 01:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudwest View Post
I don't see the point of a sedan, acutally. Sure, sedans are practical and make good sense for families. But if one wants a Bimmer and wants four doors and a trunk, an entry-level 3-series is about as small as is practical for those who need them. I just don't see a family guy (or girl) opting for a sedan smaller than the 3-series. Whereas the coupe would be novel in the 1-series price bracket.
That was basically the gist of my conversation with BMW Person #2. I spent a week in Europe in a 120i, and it's really too small to be considered a sedan in this market. Its compact interior dimensions could be much better justified as a coupe. A coupe also represents the brand better (in my opinion anyway) as a gateway vehicle into the rest of the BMW family. They can capture younger buyers with a 1 Series coupe and hopefully they will move into a 3 Series sedan or wagon as they "mature" and family life demands a larger vehicle. That's essentially the market the VW GTI has filled for 20+ years.

Still, almost everyone at BMW looks at me like I'm crazy when I ask about a coupe. Their market data seems to indicate that a 1 Series coupe would flop. :bs:
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      01-12-2007, 09:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan@mwerks View Post
Still, almost everyone at BMW looks at me like I'm crazy when I ask about a coupe.
Reverse psychology, I say. Were there no market for the coupe, then Porsche Caymans, Z4 Coupes and the like would be long extinct.

While I would expect a 2 coupe to be more day-to-day and four-seasons practical than the above (as well as being a 2+2), who's to say that there is not a broad market out there for an entry-level car for those that have Z4 aspirations as well as 3 or 5-series aspirations. Why do manufactureres tend to assume that those spending less on a car need optimal practicality.

My first new car was a Miata. Didn't regret it for one day...
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      01-12-2007, 09:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudwest View Post
Reverse psychology, I say. Were there no market for the coupe, then Porsche Caymans, Z4 Coupes and the like would be long extinct.

While I would expect a 2 coupe to be more day-to-day and four-seasons practical than the above (as well as being a 2+2), who's to say that there is not a broad market out there for an entry-level car for those that have Z4 aspirations as well as 3 or 5-series aspirations. Why do manufactureres tend to assume that those spending less on a car need optimal practicality.

My first new car was a Miata. Didn't regret it for one day...
That's it - couldn't have said it better..
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      01-12-2007, 04:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudwest View Post
Reverse psychology, I say. Were there no market for the coupe, then Porsche Caymans, Z4 Coupes and the like would be long extinct.
Agreed. Given the above, it seems to me that the market is embracing coupes even further as of late than it had just a few years ago. It goes right on up to the rather impractical, yet utterly decadent luxo coupes from the likes of Mercedes-Benz, Bentley, possibly even Rolls Royce eventually (101EX concept). If there is to be a sedan I don't doubt it would be released first (as seems to be BMW custom), but I have a hard time believing no 1/2 series coupe. If coupes were so undesirable, why would they have brought back the 6er after all this time, especially after the lackluster sales of the 8 Series in this country? For that matter, why bother making a 3 series coupe anymore? Can you imagine the public outcry had BMW announced there would be no 2 door iteration of the e90?! Sorry, I just don't buy it.
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      01-15-2007, 02:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan@mwerks View Post
From our discussion I was able to glean that a 2-door 1 Series coupe is unlikely for any market, as is the possibility of a true wagon. The final mix will likely be 2-door softtop convertble, 3-door coupe, 4-door sedan and 5-door sedan.
From the photoshop pics I've seen and the descriptions I've read sounds like this may function similar to the Scion tC's liftback coupe design...

I might be wrong but I'm a Scion specialist here in florida and I sell ALOT of them to many types of people despite the publics harsh reception of the Scion brand back in 03 when they were first introduced to America. The liftback coupe design appeals to people in all situations...might be the design strategy they are going for with the coupe.

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      01-15-2007, 03:00 PM   #21
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.... right now the sloped roof 3-door is getting a lot of play...a lot of long looks in terms of trying to define an appropriate body, or format, for the next decade....
and the coupe, in spite of being a classic and totally in proportion to the 1-series size, may have the perception (to BMW) of signifying retro or been-there-did-that.
If BMW doesn't offer a traditional 2-door coupe, this liftback would be a great solution. The Scion has really grown on me. A sharp design with a new wrinkle to the coupe format.
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      03-14-2007, 06:47 PM   #22
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??? Where is my Coupe? Wasn't shown at the Geneva Auto Show! I have a 2000 323CI that needs to be replaced.
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