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      09-22-2011, 01:39 PM   #1
adrean8j
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@Roebling Road Raceway Vid

So I went to RR spring of '10 and never posted this video to the site. All of your trackstars out there tell me what you think (be nice). This is as close as I am getting to the track for the foreseeable future so I watch it from time to time to remind myself of what I missed this past summer of '11. Enjoy

***TURN VOLUME DOWN...CAMERA WAS OUTSIDE THE CAR SO IT IS LOUUUUUD***

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      09-22-2011, 03:05 PM   #2
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Wow that's a fast track! 4-5 gear all through. I can see taking turn 1 in 4 gear. Looks like a lot of fun. Nice driving
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      09-22-2011, 03:55 PM   #3
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Actually 3-4th all the way. Sometimes 5th on the straight for a few seconds.
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      09-22-2011, 05:46 PM   #4
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My point was you could be going much faster
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      09-23-2011, 06:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
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My point was you could be going much faster
Possibly...You are doing near 135mph by the end of the front straight and staying in 4th you lose a bit of torque for the rest of turns 1B and 2....I initially tried it in 4th and ended up with less torque and momentum that far up in the rev range. It is hard to describe without you seeing the tacho and brake points (for example Turn 1 is actually a two turns...initial turn in and then stab of brakes to shift weight of vehicle to allow it to setup easier for follow on turn and track out). In 4th gear you are actually losing speed and have less torque....at least that is the way I see/saw it

Coming in off of the front straight I am usually at or near the rev limit for 4th(or in 5th for 3-5seconds depending on traffic...this usually means in 4th )...heel/toe to 3rd as I am slowing down for the turn...this way I can concentrate on getting my line correct for the setup of 2 and 3
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      09-23-2011, 07:09 AM   #6
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Here's a turn by turn guide. That straight is amazing.

http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Turn_..._Raceway_track

...adding: I would guess that most cars hit top speed.

edit 2: Well maybe not top speed. I haven't gone that fast, so I don't know how much acceleration drops off.

Last edited by GaryS; 09-23-2011 at 07:43 AM..
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      09-23-2011, 07:30 AM   #7
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^^^Nice Gary much of what they say on there is true about this track....keep in mind that the lines will be different for....lets say Porsche versus BMW due to engine layout and drivetrain. Lines will also be different given HP levels as well. But the gist of what they have written is entirely true.
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      09-23-2011, 08:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
Here's a turn by turn guide. That straight is amazing.

http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Turn_..._Raceway_track

...adding: I would guess that most cars hit top speed.

edit 2: Well maybe not top speed. I haven't gone that fast, so I don't know how much acceleration drops off.
that was a perfect description and validated what I was saying. thanks Gary! btw mike skeen is the man.
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      09-23-2011, 08:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
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that was a perfect description and validated what I was saying. thanks Gary! btw mike skeen is the man.
Sorry man but what he was saying for gearing doesn't/didn't apply to our 1ers. My instructors would tell me to go into 4th and wonder why we were going so damn fast...so we would have to drop to 3rd....for the 1er specifically it is a most 3-4th gear track...I haven't seen any other 1ers on here running that track so I don't have anyone to back me up...but where E46 M3's were running 4th gear I would be in 3rd. Those passes on the front straight? 4th gear (ask Dan@United he was there )
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      09-23-2011, 09:16 AM   #10
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I agree our gear changes are different than narrow power band NA engines. we can take most turns in 3 gear where other cars need to drop down to 2 but I bet you can shave 10 seconds from your time if you take turn 1 in fourth. you should be able to take turn one at 95+ mph and just gradually accelerate through. last year I use to drive my local track in 3-4 gear. mostly 3rd. this year I am using more 4-5 and I have shaved 10 sec from last year time. keeping the rev range between 3000 and 5000 and peaking at 6000 for gear changes is the fastest way around the track imo.
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      09-23-2011, 09:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelblue View Post
I agree our gear changes are different than narrow power band NA engines. we can take most turns in 3 gear where other cars need to drop down to 2 but I bet you can shave 10 seconds from your time if you take turn 1 in fourth. you should be able to take turn one at 95 mph and just gradually accelerate through. last year I use to drive my local track in 3-4 gear. mostly 3rd. this year I am using more 4-5 and I have shaved 10 sec from last year time. keeping the rev range between 3000 and 5000 and peaking at 6000 for gear changes is the fastest way around the track imo.
Roebling is 3-4 everywhere except 5 on front straight. I also like to short shift from 3 to 4 entering the last turn just to get a smooth exit. Otherwise you have to shift up while in full turn at the exit which can upset the car. I don't feel any torque starvation doing this. I am hitting RR tomorrow with Coastal Empire PCA and will have the video camera rolling. I'll try to post a video and comments next week.
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      09-24-2011, 12:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syenisch View Post
Roebling is 3-4 everywhere except 5 on front straight. I also like to short shift from 3 to 4 entering the last turn just to get a smooth exit. Otherwise you have to shift up while in full turn at the exit which can upset the car. I don't feel any torque starvation doing this. I am hitting RR tomorrow with Coastal Empire PCA and will have the video camera rolling. I'll try to post a video and comments next week.
Thank you for the validation Tried to tell him but I guess you would have to be a RR vet
BTW I ran with CE PCA before...pretty good group Matter of fact I have my t-shirt from them out here in Iraq that I wear from time to time
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      09-26-2011, 07:34 AM   #13
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RRR is a fast momentum track... here's how I work this track in my M3:

Cruising speed:
T1- 5th to 4th
T2- 4th
T3- 4th
T4- 3rd
T5a/b-T8 - 3rd
T9 - 4th
Front Straight - 5th

9/10ths:
T1- 5th to 4th
T2- 4th to 3rd
T3- 3rd
T4- 3rd
T5a/b-T8 - 3rd
T9 - 4th
Front Straight - 5th

then make a mistake and spin out doing a 1080 in between 4 and 5a
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      09-27-2011, 08:28 PM   #14
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Unfortunately my video camera didn't work this past weekend, so I don't have any videos to post!

Had a lot of fun this past weekend and definitely got a little better at RRR. Took me a while but I found a line I liked in 1-2. Brake at the 4, then let it coast and scrub off speed all the way to the late corner apex. 2 is a little tigher turn than 1, so you naturally move to the outside of the track and are set up to cut back inside for a straight shot out of 2 and on to the short straight to 3. I liked it a lot better than the mid-turn braking technique most people do.

The car absolutely sails through 3. My favorite turn. I could run a good 5 mph faster than anyone else I ran with through here. I think our car just really likes those high-speed constant radius sweepers.

After finding the line through 1-2 late in the weekend I started trying to apply that to other turns. The PCA instructors seem to like for you to brake, then hold steady throttle through the turn, and accelerate out. All my experience playing video games (and let's face it, they're realistic enough now that you can learn a LOT from them. Anyone who disagrees is naive.) says this isn't the fastest way through a turn. So I tried harder to brake less and let the car coast and scrub off speed naturally before slowing down enough to angle out and accelerate out of the turn. It's a finer line to walk but it feels good when you hit it right.

Turn 5 is the toughest turn without a doubt. I could use another few weekends to keep practicing lines through there. The car suffers the most here. As much as the car likes high speed sweepers, it hates late apex turns. It just doesn't want to rotate midcorner like you need it to in 5.

6-7 is much like 4 only a longer turn. Don't really have much to say here.

9 is a fun high speed turn that the car behaved well in much like 3. Throttle steer is your friend here. I could hold a tighter and faster line than anyone else I was around. Really fun and you can carry a lot of speed down the long straight.

For lap time comparisons, my best lap on my "bonzai" run was in the 1:26's. I did this on my last run after I started getting more comfortable in 1-2. I could do 1:28's all day all weekend. Could probably do 1:27's all day after getting more comfortable in 1-2. My car has PS, M3 front arms, and Direzza Star Specs. Stock under the hood. I keep all the aids on because it's my daily driver and it's plenty fun with them on anyway. I'm not sure how much that might be holding me back, but it doesn't feel like much. Next mods will probably be M3 rear bushings and Dinan camber plates. Excited to go back, hoepfully in spring!

Oh... no lump mode but my oil temp was near 270 all weekend. Ambient temp was mid to upper 80's. I'll be making more of an effort not to go when it's that warm.
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      09-28-2011, 04:36 AM   #15
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^^^270 sounds about right for our vehicles in the area and on this track. That 1-2 turn mid-braking technique is just a very, very quick stab of the brakes to shift that weight to promote a bit of oversteer syndrome. Remember as well that the Porsche guys actually take a different line than our BMW's do on that track. I figured this out during my second HPDE there....my first one I had a Porsche Driver in my passenger seat and during my second one I had a BMW driver...the gave me two different lines for 1-2 and for 5.
I find 5 the hardest to PERFECT without promoting understeer OR ending up slowing down tooooo much.
Funny thing....the one time I absolutely got 5 perfect...I ended up carrying so much speed that I went 2 off @6-7....a bit of a shock cause I didn't expect to be going as fast as I was
I should be back by spring and I definitely hope to be there (who is running the show? Is it Florida Crown?) and the United BMW crew will probably be there as well
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