OEM oil is no 0w-30??

[Zombie_Head]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Does not matter where you live, the thinner the oil at startup the better. It is physically impossible for any oil to be too thin at cold start. Even the thinnest 0W16 will be many times thicker at 40C than even the thickest 10W60 at operating temp (100C and up).

It is your choice, but you should take a look at 10w-60 oil during cold startup and decide for yourself what happens.

As i said, cold startup is just one part of the decision which oil you go for, the normal temp and extreme temp (both depending on your conditions) must be considered.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Zombie_Head

It is your choice, but you should take a look at 10w-60 oil during cold startup and decide for yourself what happens.

As i said, cold startup is just one part of the decision which oil you go for, the normal temp and extreme temp (both depending on your conditions) must be considered.

Exactly. You choose the first number to be as thin as possible, choose the second number for your operating temps/climate/driving conditions. That is why I use a 0W40.

[Esteban]

Got an oil change last month while my car was in for the airbag recall. 0W-30 was used.

[YearOneOne]

Originally Posted by Mybimmer

10-40w is not right. Too thick for start up.

10w is not too thick for a warm climate

[Zombie_Head]

Take a good look at 10w-60 in cold weather, then tell me that you want to use that oil in cold start ups/cold weather conditions.

Choosing the correct oil is a very simple thing to do, i do not understand why people just say "i use what the dealer recommends" and your conditions are different (just be sure that is BMW long life and you are fine).

[Bimmer TV]

Originally Posted by Zombie_Head

Take a good look at 10w-60 in cold weather, then tell me that you want to use that oil in cold start ups/cold weather conditions.

Choosing the correct oil is a very simple thing to do, i do not understand why people just say "i use what the dealer recommends" and your conditions are different (just be sure that is BMW long life and you are fine).

Thanks for sharing this video! I used to manage a Jiffy Lube back in the 90's and early 2,000's (2 different ones) (laugh all you want), and I have been a long time car enthusiast and magazine reader. This is some of the best information I have ever received on the subject. Cheers!

[jcoop269]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

BMW US switching to a thinner oil "probably" has more to do with faster engine warm ups and hence lower emissions. I think IF I lived in a hotter climate I might use a slightly thicker oil of just change your oil more often. Personally I still use 0w40 LL1 Castrol oil in my 135i. But you can't go wrong with using what BMW says to use - sold at its dealers.

It would be curious to see some oil analyse on the two oils.

Dackel

You got it, Made in Germany Castrol Edge 0w-40 ALWAYS. Everyone has it and it's really the only LL01 I know to be left that isn't BWM TwinPower from the dealership. The best.

[chris_flies]

In Summation:


The first number, found with the W, indicates the relative COLD TEMPERATURE viscosity, measured in freezing conditions. 0W flows fastest cold, 5W is a tad slower, 10W is a thin syrup, 15W is a tasty syrup, etc.

Generally, if you live in a climate that experiences temperatures around or below 20 degF, a 0W oil is gonna be best for you, and will offer the best cold start protection (flows faster, fills those lifters quicker).

If you never or rarely dip below 30 degF, a 5W oil would offer more protection than a 0W, but either works fine.

If you never or rarely dip below 40 degF, 10W is a great choice, offering better protection immediately at start-up, and 15W if you're on the warmer side of things.


The second number, without a W is the relative OPERATING TEMPERATURE viscosity. The higher the number, the better protection this offers at high loads, high temps, etc. However, higher viscosity also means decreased fuel economy, and a greater amount of parasitic (right term?) loses in the engine. -20 offer great economy, but little serious protection; -30 is what nearly every manufacturer recommends now; -40 is on the thicker side of things, and is usually recommended for high performance applications, but reduce fuel economy; -50 offers the greatest protection, but is the most detrimental to economy, and is generally the most expensive.

For this number, it's almost always best (for the engine's longevity, at least) to go with the thickest viscosity you can find. For the economy-minded individual a -30, for the spirited-driving enthusiast a -40, and for the racers among us a -50.


I'm not a total expert, but I do understand the physics, and the basic principle of engine lubrication (more is better). I'm open to answer basic questions, and Engineering Explained has a great video on this, as does Gears and Gasoline on YouTube (fantastic channel, deserves your subscription!).

By the way, I'm running a 0W-40. Cold starts are fine (no lifter tick), and it feels great when warm, and doesn't seem to mind light track work.

[Zombie_Head]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

In Summation:


The first number, found with the W, indicates the relative COLD TEMPERATURE viscosity, measured in freezing conditions. 0W flows fastest cold, 5W is a tad slower, 10W is a thin syrup, 15W is a tasty syrup, etc.

Generally, if you live in a climate that experiences temperatures around or below 20 degF, a 0W oil is gonna be best for you, and will offer the best cold start protection (flows faster, fills those lifters quicker).

If you never or rarely dip below 30 degF, a 5W oil would offer more protection than a 0W, but either works fine.

If you never or rarely dip below 40 degF, 10W is a great choice, offering better protection immediately at start-up, and 15W if you're on the warmer side of things.


The second number, without a W is the relative OPERATING TEMPERATURE viscosity. The higher the number, the better protection this offers at high loads, high temps, etc. However, higher viscosity also means decreased fuel economy, and a greater amount of parasitic (right term?) loses in the engine. -20 offer great economy, but little serious protection; -30 is what nearly every manufacturer recommends now; -40 is on the thicker side of things, and is usually recommended for high performance applications, but reduce fuel economy; -50 offers the greatest protection, but is the most detrimental to economy, and is generally the most expensive.

For this number, it's almost always best (for the engine's longevity, at least) to go with the thickest viscosity you can find. For the economy-minded individual a -30, for the spirited-driving enthusiast a -40, and for the racers among us a -50.


I'm not a total expert, but I do understand the physics, and the basic principle of engine lubrication (more is better). I'm open to answer basic questions, and Engineering Explained has a great video on this, as does Gears and Gasoline on YouTube (fantastic channel, deserves your subscription!).

By the way, I'm running a 0W-40. Cold starts are fine (no lifter tick), and it feels great when warm, and doesn't seem to mind light track work.

You are correct there, trouble is dealerships will recommend and use only 1 oil weight no matter the climate conditions or your driving style.

I lived in Dubai for 20+ years and they use 5w30 on BMWs, Porsche, VWs and some Ford models.

I do not see that oil surviving 50c summers and lows of 35c during the night. That oil is great in winter over there, where 10c lows and 25c highs.

I remember running a 0w-40 in summer there, when i checked the dipstick after a spirited drive, the oil was as thin as water, oil pressure was at bare minimum (1 bar at idle) and oil temp easily hit well over 130c. Would never run that oil on even track days there either, yet the dealership would not run anything different.

Dealership can run whatever they want "strictly" and most of the time the local conditions are well outside their recommendations, yet when you get a new car you are stuck with what they recommend due to warranty reasons.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Zombie_Head

Take a good look at 10w-60 in cold weather, then tell me that you want to use that oil in cold start ups/cold weather conditions.

Choosing the correct oil is a very simple thing to do, i do not understand why people just say "i use what the dealer recommends" and your conditions are different (just be sure that is BMW long life and you are fine).

That is a terrible video. They only reason they put 10W60 in those motors was a a stop gap for faulty engine bearings. He also makes it seem like you only have two oil choices, 0W20 or 10W60, which is far from the case.

[captain slowly]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

In Summation:


The first number, found with the W, indicates the relative COLD TEMPERATURE viscosity, measured in freezing conditions. 0W flows fastest cold, 5W is a tad slower, 10W is a thin syrup, 15W is a tasty syrup, etc.

Generally, if you live in a climate that experiences temperatures around or below 20 degF, a 0W oil is gonna be best for you, and will offer the best cold start protection (flows faster, fills those lifters quicker).

If you never or rarely dip below 30 degF, a 5W oil would offer more protection than a 0W, but either works fine.

If you never or rarely dip below 40 degF, 10W is a great choice, offering better protection immediately at start-up, and 15W if you're on the warmer side of things.


The second number, without a W is the relative OPERATING TEMPERATURE viscosity. The higher the number, the better protection this offers at high loads, high temps, etc. However, higher viscosity also means decreased fuel economy, and a greater amount of parasitic (right term?) loses in the engine. -20 offer great economy, but little serious protection; -30 is what nearly every manufacturer recommends now; -40 is on the thicker side of things, and is usually recommended for high performance applications, but reduce fuel economy; -50 offers the greatest protection, but is the most detrimental to economy, and is generally the most expensive.

For this number, it's almost always best (for the engine's longevity, at least) to go with the thickest viscosity you can find. For the economy-minded individual a -30, for the spirited-driving enthusiast a -40, and for the racers among us a -50.


I'm not a total expert, but I do understand the physics, and the basic principle of engine lubrication (more is better). I'm open to answer basic questions, and Engineering Explained has a great video on this, as does Gears and Gasoline on YouTube (fantastic channel, deserves your subscription!).


By the way, I'm running a 0W-40. Cold starts are fine (no lifter tick), and it feels great when warm, and doesn't seem to mind light track work.

LOL!

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by captain slowly

LOL!

???

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

By the way, I'm running a 0W-40. Cold starts are fine (no lifter tick), and it feels great when warm, and doesn't seem to mind light track work.

When I bought my car(135i N54), new back in 2010 here in Germany(thru military car sales)... I used Mobil 1 0w40 European Blend - since it was LL1 approved back then(but not today, it doesn't have a LL approval)... Anyways... I kept reading about people here on 1Addicts preferring the German made Castrol. SO... I decided to try it on my third oil change. Now granted I had changed my oil & filter at: 500 miles, 1K miles and then again at 3K miles.

When I switched to German made Castrol RS Edge 0w40, a LL4 rated oil(which is backwards compatible to LL1) I was shocked at how much quieter my engine sounded on cold start - in the winter time. This was in January/February 2010. There was far less metallic tapping from the engine's lifters and the oil temps were almost two needle widths cooler - driving the same way on the Autobahn here. I was sold.

Since then Castrol stopped making that oil... so today I run Castrol FST Edge 0w40 oil(LL1 rated). And I always change my oil twice a year or at ~5K miles - which ever comes first. I generally change my oil in the Spring(when I take my car out of winter storage) and again in late summer(a few months before going into winter storage.

The cost of oil can be quite high over here in DE... but you can find a 5L jug for 44 euros. Mobil 1 on post sells for about $8 per quart... so its a wash in price. I do feel better running Castrol in my car. Asking which oil is best is like asking which religion is best. There is no answer... just a ton of "opinions". The above is my opinion on what oil to run.

Dackel

[Zombie_Head]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

That is a terrible video. They only reason they put 10W60 in those motors was a a stop gap for faulty engine bearings. He also makes it seem like you only have two oil choices, 0W20 or 10W60, which is far from the case.

He is showing the difference from one of the thickest oils you can purchase vs one of the thinnest you can get.

He also shows you how oil affects your driving style, which is key regardless of what weight you think is right.

Example shown in the video, you can not take a factory GT86 with 0w20 and track it in summer.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

The only reason they put 10W60 in those motors was a a stop gap for faulty engine bearings.

...What? Where are you getting this information?

In the late 1990s, early versions of the S62 were known for having a loud VANOS system. These engines were originally running the same Castrol 5W-30 (pictured) that served as BMW's mainstay for many years. I've been told that right before the slight redesign which resulted in a quieter VANOS on 2001+ S62 V8s, BMW changed the oil recommendation from 5W-30 to 10W-60 TWS to quiet the system down.

As far as I know, the S54, S65 and S85 have continue to score rod bearings years after the change...even after BMW enacted a recall and redesigned the bearings themselves. Keep in mind the S54, S65 and S85 have always run TWS 10W-60.


Old, but gold.


Some more pertinent information:

In doing some research, I've discovered that the new TwinPower Turbo 0W-20 is what's being used in BMW's new crop of B-series engines; B38, B46 and the B58, the latter of which replaced the N55. The N55 left the factory running 5W-30, but the new recommendation for the N55 is now 0W-30. I'm guessing the discontinued M TwinPower Turbo 0W-40 would've been a decent choice for the N55 as well.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Zombie_Head

He is showing the difference from one of the thickest oils you can purchase vs one of the thinnest you can get.

He also shows you how oil affects your driving style, which is key regardless of what weight you think is right.

Example shown in the video, you can not take a factory GT86 with 0w20 and track it in summer.

Oh, absolutely. You choose the second number for the oil temps you will be seeing. But there is no such thing as too thin at startup.

[Zombie_Head]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Oh, absolutely. You choose the second number for the oil temps you will be seeing. But there is no such thing as too thin at startup.

Actually there is, and again this depends on where you live. Running a 0 weight in a 40c summer morning vs a 10c morning makes a difference.

Originally Posted by Dackelone

When I bought my car(135i N54), new back in 2010 here in Germany(thru military car sales)... I used Mobil 1 0w40 European Blend - since it was LL1 approved back then(but not today, it doesn't have a LL approval)... Anyways... I kept reading about people here on 1Addicts preferring the German made Castrol. SO... I decided to try it on my third oil change. Now granted I had changed my oil & filter at: 500 miles, 1K miles and then again at 3K miles.

When I switched to German made Castrol RS Edge 0w40, a LL4 rated oil(which is backwards compatible to LL1) I was shocked at how much quieter my engine sounded on cold start - in the winter time. This was in January/February 2010. There was far less metallic tapping from the engine's lifters and the oil temps were almost two needle widths cooler - driving the same way on the Autobahn here. I was sold.

Since then Castrol stopped making that oil... so today I run Castrol FST Edge 0w40 oil(LL1 rated). And I always change my oil twice a year or at ~5K miles - which ever comes first. I generally change my oil in the Spring(when I take my car out of winter storage) and again in late summer(a few months before going into winter storage.

The cost of oil can be quite high over here in DE... but you can find a 5L jug for 44 euros. Mobil 1 on post sells for about $8 per quart... so its a wash in price. I do feel better running Castrol in my car. Asking which oil is best is like asking which religion is best. There is no answer... just a ton of "opinions". The above is my opinion on what oil to run.

Dackel

And this is the problem, most of us see oil as a religion and non of us will agree which is best (obviously).

[Gangplank]

Everything you wanted to know about oil (or don't) is on this site.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com

They even have a forum - w/ a thread on Dack's favorite German Castrol - https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...8643/FAQ_-_GC_(_German_Castrol_)#Post718643

And even a thread about why NOT to run the Shell Rotella T6 full synth that I used to run in my Suzuki GSXR-750 racebike. Hint: Shell R-T6 is high in phosphates. Good for engines, bad for catalytic converters. Race bikes (and big diesels) don't have them. Oh and since I changed my oil every 4 trackdays it made sense to buy the cheapest good oil avail.

For the e82 - I run what my Indy uses. Castrol. Same as Dack.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

And even a thread about why NOT to run the Shell Rotella T6 full synth that I used to run in my Suzuki GSXR-750 racebike. Hint: Shell R-T6 is high in phosphates. Good for engines, bad for catalytic converters. Race bikes (and big diesels) don't have them. Oh and since I changed my oil every 4 trackdays it made sense to buy the cheapest good oil avail.

Shell now makes a multi-vehicle version of T6 in 5W-30. Maybe it was in response to how popular the stuff is in gasoline-powered roadcars?

http://rotella.shell.com/products/sh...eavy-duty.html

[minirips2]

On cold startup-that would be -15F, my N52 was not a happy camper. I found out why they sell thinner brake fluid, too. My brakes were very touchy, and my clutch felt like I was pushing it through molasses, which I was! Thank goodness I had removed the CDV.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Zombie_Head

Actually there is, and again this depends on where you live. Running a 0 weight in a 40c summer morning vs a 10c morning makes a difference.

And this is the problem, most of us see oil as a religion and non of us will agree which is best (obviously).

Not sure where you live, but I have never seen ambient temps of 40C, let alone in the morning.

It is not a religion. Just data and facts.

I think you are missing my point about cold viscosity.

You pick the viscosity for the operating temp your car sees, that is the second number. In my case, that is a 40 weight.

At 100C, the Castrol 40 weight has a viscosity of 13.5 cSt. My car runs the oil normally at 140C so, lets just say at the slightly higher temp it is 12.0 cSt for arguments sake.

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/4ABA633F17A143FD80257AA90053665B/$File/EDGE%20Professional%20European%20PDS_July_2012.pdf

So, ideally, I want even the cold viscosity to be as close to that as possible. Even the thinnest oil I can think of, the newer 0W16, has a viscosity of 37 cSt at 40C.

http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/C10241.pdf

Normal starting temp is below 40C so will be even thicker. So even one of the thinnest oils you can get has a viscosity nearly 300% higher than what my car wants at operating temp.

That is why I say it is impossible to be too thin at startup. This is why all car companies are switching to 0WXX oils. I would not be surprised if they don't come out with a new, even thinner spec for cold temp. Not sure what they would call it, -5?

And agreed on the bobistheoilguy. If you want to talk oils, probably best place to do it.

[juld0zer]

0w oils tend to be made from higher quality base stocks.

There is nothing wrong with running what the manufacturer originally specified from the day it was born.

There are also many market regions in the world with similar operating conditions as yours. The local BMW head offices may not specify the same oil either.

My opinion is that this change has been driven by modern tighter emissions regulations, hence the 'FE' designation for this 0w30 oil. By making 0w30 applicable to 'old' generation engines such as the N54 and N55, the dealership also saves money and floor space from by needing to stock fewer oils.

I don't know about the US but over here, dealers do not seem to need to use genuine BMW oil. As long as it is LL01 for petrol, LL04 for diesel it seems. Aside from the M engines needing certain viscosities of course.