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      07-23-2010, 12:01 AM   #1
KVMan50
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REVIEW: Bavarian Soundwerks Speaker upgrade

I recently purchased the BSW Stage 1 Audio Upgrade for BMW 1 Series Coupe 07+ (E82) from Bavarian Soundwerks (bavsound.com). I was fairly depressed about the sound from my BMW "Professional" sound system in my 1 coupe. I have pretty well always replaced my car stereos and speakers and this car badly needed an upgrade.

I pulled the front door panel off to take a look and was appalled at how small the front speaker magnets were and how light duty the speaker basket was. Cheap POS! No wonder the stereo sounded pathetic... no clarity, no detail and no oomph. Also BMW uses a proprietary mount with 3 bolts, every other after market speaker comes with 4 bolt holes. I talked with a couple of car stereo dealers and both said they could do something awesome, but the costs were quite a bit higher to replace all the speakers as they would have to make custom mounts. 4 X 4 inch midrange and 4 X 1 inch tweeters is what comes in the car, not counting the subs under the seats.

The BSW speakers looked great, the reviews I found were all positive, so that's what I decided to do. I ordered them online at $519 plus shipping. They sent the confirmation emails and I waited for about 5 days for their arrival. When they arrived, I was very impressed on how well they were packaged. A solid box, filled with proper packing and each pair of speakers was wrapped in plastic and padding labeled with their mounting location. The speakers themselves are much higher quality that the BMW speakers including the correct cables for actual plug 'n play installation. The bavsound website has videos showing the install procedure and I watched it a couple of times, and then proceeded to do the install. The first front door took about 1 hour and the next door took about half that. I added Dynamat to the surrounding area of the speakers to firm up the door panel. The door panel is pretty solid anyway, but I had the dynamat already. The rear speakers were even easier, both took about 30 minutes.

I set the bass/treble controls to flat and listened to a bunch of different songs, playing with the controls. I settled on 1 bass boost and 1 treble boost (my kind of sound). I got my wife, her uncle - a musician, and my 24 year old son and everyone was impressed with how much better it sounded. Way more bass, way more clarity and more musical. Also much more efficient, so louder and punchier. I'm very pleased with the system. The stock headunit is adequate, but with the windows down, sunroof open and traffic noise, it could still use more punch and volume. With the windows up, it sounds excellent! I highly recommend this system.
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      07-23-2010, 05:57 AM   #2
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Linky to where you buy?
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      07-23-2010, 07:35 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieRacer View Post
Linky to where you buy?
Link is in the first sentence of that post and printed in the magnet of the speaker in the photo.
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      07-23-2010, 09:47 AM   #4
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Is your base system the HIFI (Logic 7) system?

Also, I am only asking this because of the last review on their speakers, but are you in any way sponsored or affiliated with BSW?
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      07-23-2010, 02:53 PM   #5
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the original post smells suspiciously like an ad to me. and I should know because I work in advertising.

I spent roughly twice that for rainbow components up front, earthquakes under the seat and an arc mini-amp to drive the whole thing.

sounds 10x better (including with the windows down).

people, forget BSW. make your hard-earned money work smarter and harder. start here: musicarnw.com

I'm just sayin'...
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      07-23-2010, 09:34 PM   #6
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The drivers in the pictures are from the OEM Logic7 system. These are very capable speakers. The problem with the L7 system is not the speakers, it is the processing (and the amp, to a lesser degree). Putting other speakers in there (I don't care how expensive) and reporting a night and day difference is a blatant lie.
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      07-23-2010, 10:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
The drivers in the pictures are from the OEM Logic7 system. These are very capable speakers. The problem with the L7 system is not the speakers, it is the processing (and the amp, to a lesser degree). Putting other speakers in there (I don't care how expensive) and reporting a night and day difference is a blatant lie.
Yeah I should have seen that as the labels on the back show that. Sometimes I am a pretty smart guy...
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      07-23-2010, 11:04 PM   #8
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I will be honest, my girlfriend had the front set from BSW installed while I was out of town (partially out of guilt for an earlier argument). Was originally going the Morel/Arc route but supplier issues complicated matters (damn ADMWs are hard to acquire). Personally anything would be an improvement over the base 'HiFi' speakers. It appears the L7 has better drivers. Wouldn't have spent the $$$ on BSW but am thankful for the better mid/highs from the new setup. Those of you who want a simple upgrade might consider them. Just need to address the underseats and a better amp to drive the front stage. Just my .02.
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      07-24-2010, 07:36 PM   #9
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oh.. I remember this thread about BSW.....
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      07-25-2010, 09:37 AM   #10
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the more things change, the more they stay the same...

: )
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      07-25-2010, 10:42 AM   #11
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I am not affiliated to BSW in any way. I live in Vancouver, this is my first BMW car, I am a technical computer guy who has loved music his whole rather long life and these speakers sound way better than stock. Bkochuk and kaigoss69... have either of you actually tried and replaced speakers or is this only your preconceived and wrong pompous a-hole opinions? What a bunch of pricks you two are. Try and have an open mind instead of critizing something you obviously know nothing about.
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      07-25-2010, 04:17 PM   #12
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Speakers are all about frequency response and wattage. If your stock speakers have a limited range, changing the speakers can make a difference (if you carefully select them based on specs). Typically the amplifiers in the car can output a decent range and reasonable wattage. I put speakers (Boston Acoustics) in one of my cars a few years back and it made quite a difference. Mostly because they had better mid and low frequency response than stock, and they could handle all the wattage the amp was supplying, so I got a louder cleaner volume than the $2 stock speakers. That was my primary reason to do it. Got sick of going down the highway with windows open and hearing distorted sound. At one point I added an Alpine amp for the speakers and it made a lot more difference. So I would think there is a degree of improvement in replacing the speakers, not as much I would think than changing the amplifiers and the head unit as well. But I have no idea of the specs of the amp or head unit, so I wouldn't know what would be the next step up.

Personally I don't have any problems with the sound my 128 has. It sounds way better than any of the GM cars I have owned. In the end the sound system is only as good as the source anyway, and my MP3's are not any better than the stock system can deliver. I spend the money on my home theatre system, as thats where I want really good sound. My 128 has better sound than my minimum requirements.

I would like to hear the difference though, Im curious.
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      07-25-2010, 04:19 PM   #13
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I understand your frustration. The guys who chimed in here have their opinions for a reason though. BSW has a tainted rep on this forum based on an earlier review. Long story short a fellow addict listed his 'unbiased' review without disclosing he had received the product free for testing purposes. The thread dragged out and BSW came out with egg on their face. Another member received the wrong tweeter and waited a considerable amount of time getting the issue resolved. I had no plans to purchase speakers from them but received them as a gift. They are an upgrade. The bang for the buck quotient is debatable. Glad to hear you are happy with your speakers. Cheers.
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      07-25-2010, 07:55 PM   #14
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@ kvman:

the previous thread bozola mentioned turned me off to BSW as a company.

glad you're happy.

yes, I did replace my speakers as I mentioned, and my system rocks. you yourself said you could use more "punch and volume."

mine has both.
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      07-25-2010, 11:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KVMan50 View Post
I am not affiliated to BSW in any way. I live in Vancouver, this is my first BMW car, I am a technical computer guy who has loved music his whole rather long life and these speakers sound way better than stock. Bkochuk and kaigoss69... have either of you actually tried and replaced speakers or is this only your preconceived and wrong pompous a-hole opinions? What a bunch of pricks you two are. Try and have an open mind instead of critizing something you obviously know nothing about.
I'm going to be in Vancouver next week, wanna get together?

As I have stated before, the L7 drivers are very good, with the right processing (and power). I bet you a month's salary that with the right processing, and amplification, you will not be able to hear the difference between the L7 speakers and most aftermarket component sets, including BSW.

Now without the proper processing, the L7 mids have some nasty peaks, and the BSW may be a bit "softer" sounding due to the paper or composite cone, but keep in mind that the OEM L7 processing is "optimized" for the L7 speakers and that the frequency response curve changes once you put different brand/make speakers in there. Also, to let you know, back in 2006 JBL put their prototype MS-8 processor in a 325i with L7 system, and they won a sound competition using those same speakers you just tossed out. Link: http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...0Nationals.pdf

Regarding the volume difference you have reported, the BSWs should not be much louder, as the L7 speakers are pretty darn efficient to begin with. Normally, aftermarket speakers are MUCH less efficient than OEM ones. The extra "punch" and "bass" you were reporting is what had me (and others) suspicious about the true intention of your post since the OEM amp cuts the mids off at 150Hz and any "punch" and "bass" would therefore not be coming from the door speakers anyways, but rather from the 8" woofers under your seats. Since you did not change those, the bass response should be the same as before. You did however put dynamat in the doors which would give the mids a bit more "snap", but not "punch" (it would have done the same thing for the L7 mids).

As far as my experience goes, I have been in car audio for 23 years, and I have installed more aftermarket systems than I care to remember. I have auditioned and installed some of the finest brand speakers on the market, including Focal, Hybrid Audio, Morel, Boston and CDT. I have had my current e90, and the previous one, apart a few times and installed Focal 100KP component speakers, Earthquake "subs", Morel CW-8 midbass speakers, and various amps and processors. I know this damn car inside and out by now.

What I am saying is that based on my experience, I do not believe for one second that the BSW speaker upgrade alone would have made such a huge difference that you had to come here raving so much about it. So you are either lying about it, or perhaps your subconscious just wanted you to like it that much more since you had spent that much money on some speakers that are probably not much better than what you already had, so it had you tweaking the bass and treble settings, and the volume, until it sounded that much better to you than the original set-up.

Call me a prick or whatever you want, I'm just tellin' how it is.
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      07-26-2010, 07:04 AM   #16
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I'm confused. Did the OP have the highest system from BMW or the mid-level (the mid-level was the base system in 08 and 09 in NA)?

The magnet structure (if that is what we are looking at from the back) of the BSW looks more impressive. But even if it is bigger, that does not by itself dictate that it is a better speaker.

I am far from an expert on car sterios. I've done some things over the years but I am better on home audio but even there it's a hobby. I am a mechanical engineer by education and I've tested raw drivers for Qts, VAS, and the 3db downpoint (all tests for woofers) and then designed enclosures to match. In a home audio environment, I believe that the quality of the speakers is by far the most important parameter to getting good sound. But quality and price are not real well aligned. Some pretty expensive components are not so great and some pretty inexpensive components can sound very good.

Cars are a tough environment because you cannot typically get a sealed enclosure (or one that is sealed except for a port) and if you do put a box in a car it is probably too small to couple correctly with the driver. Speakers cannot be very far away from the listener and cannot normally be aimed at them. So you get a lot of reflected sound. But one thing that is better about cars is you know where the listeners will be.

BSW has said they do not want to publish the frequency response or Qts, VAS, and 3 dp downpoint because there is so much fibbing on these parameters. Having tested drivers I will concur the published data is not very dependable. I still look at it, however. Even more interesting would be a frequency response curve installed in the car, before and after would be best, so we can see if any frequency range is over or under emphasized. I know of no effective way to illustrate dynamic response - my answer is you have to listen to the speakers play something you know well.

Jim
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Last edited by JimD; 07-26-2010 at 08:45 AM..
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      07-27-2010, 02:13 PM   #17
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What I know is this... if you look around hard enough, you can have a JBL MS-8 processor for about the same price of the BSW speaker kit. And the difference in sound improvement with the MS-8 and the OEM speakers would be relatively radical compared with just an speaker upgrade and the OEM HiFi system.
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      07-27-2010, 05:28 PM   #18
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If you have 2010/2011 Stereo base audio, I would want to include tweeters in your MS-8 kit... and while the MS-8 would get those underseat 6" sounding better, you're gonna probably end up wanting an inexpensive amp and a set of SWS-8...
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      07-28-2010, 07:03 AM   #19
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The JBL-MS8 looks very interesting to me. I had previously noticed a Alpine amp that had an automatic frequency response tuning option and this looks similar. Balancing the frequencies and doing some time shifting to improve imaging is something you can do in a car that would be difficult to impossible to do in a house - people usually will not limit their seating in a house like you are forced to in a car.

I also noticed the JBL-MS8 is 18W/Channel. Maybe that is with a lot of headroom, I don't know, for brief spikes. That would make it equivalent to a much bigger amp. But the wattage of this device seems to be in conflict with the suggestions of a bigger amp. I do not listen to music real loud anywhere but the mid level system in my 2009 seems adequate to me - both for volume and quality of sound. Maybe if I listened to a better system I would change my mind, however.

Jim
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      07-28-2010, 11:49 AM   #20
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The MS-8 has two head-unit speaker-amplifier ICs. In my opinion, the 18W/4 ohms and the 30W/2 ohm ratings already include headroom.

The MS-8 has been tried running all OEM speakers in some BMWs, and it does OK except on the woofers. I know Technic thinks that it might push the woofers OK, but he and I disagree on the likelihood of this working out. Driving a woofer in a door-size chamber is different than a small sealed box under a set - the latter being much less efficient - and so I expect that an amp will be required on underseat 8" woofers as a rule.

But I'm willing to be wrong
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      07-28-2010, 08:09 PM   #21
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sounds like there are some good options out there for '10 owners...
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      07-29-2010, 07:12 PM   #22
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So glad the thread is staying civil! Sounds like BSW is an OK upgrade. With obvious alternatives. Reminds of one of my fav quotes...

How fast you want to go depends on how much money you wanna spend!

Hence...

How good do you want it to sound depends on how much money you wanna spend.

Nevertheless. I am tempted by BSW, but the mentioned thread caused me to think twice. Positive unbiased feedback is great!
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