Double clutch tranny soon

[oldblue]

From motorauthority.com:

BMW will use the launch of its upcoming M3 Sedan to introduce its first dual-clutch gearbox. The company is expected to show the sedan and touring versions at an upcoming American motor show, which leaves Los Angeles and Detroit in the running. According to a recent report from Auto Telegraaf, the new dual-clutch gearbox called “M DCT” will get seven forward gears, however a 6-speed manual transmission will also be available.
Co-developed with Getrag, the new gearbox will feature a shift lever like the one seen in the new X5 as well as the paddle shifters, and should offer faster and smoother acceleration than the conventional six-speed or the outgoing SMG.



Hopefully, that will mean that the same transmission will work its way to the 135 as well.



Mike

[inTgr8r]

I'm sure it will eventually.
It be nice to see. They need to do something since the SMG has been pulled from most applications.

I'd certainly consider it.

[Road Runner]

If its similar to the DSG system used in VW and Audi it should be quite an impressive combo. I have the DSG in my current GLI, its quite impressive and the shifts truly are smooth. But as good as it is, and as great as the paddle shifters are in cornering and such, I still find its not as enjoyable as a proper manual. My 2 cents...

[FinInk]

Originally Posted by old blue

From motorauthority.com:




Hopefully, that will mean that the same transmission will work its way to the 135 as well.



Mike

I doubt it. Just as the SMG was exclusive to the M's so will this dual clutch. It'll be one of their points to buy a M3 since horsepower can be surpassed by the 135/335i.

[Robert]

Maybe... since competition is heating up. All the audis will have dsg as options or what not.

[krassanova]

Considering the fact that the M DCT is taking the place of the SMG transmission, it is highly unlikely that it will find its way into the 1-Series unless BMW develops an M1. The SMG is only in the M-Cars, and since the M DCT is taking the SMG's place, it goes to follow that the M DCT will only be found in M-Cars as well.

[mikey]

Originally Posted by finink

Just as the SMG was exclusive to the M's

Originally Posted by krassanova

The SMG is only in the M-Cars

I believe the M54 equipped E46/E60/E61/E85's all could have been ordered with SMG. If a 5er touring had SMG, what's stopping BMW from putting a DCT in the 1er? It may not be "M" spec -- but then again, there are many M accents incorporated in the 1er that BMW doesn't typically add until the end of a chassis lifecycle (which this clearly is not). Seems like yet another piece of information we've got to wait for...

[sectos]

Originally Posted by mikey

I believe the M54 equipped E46/E60/E61/E85's all could have been ordered with SMG. If a 5er touring had SMG, what's stopping BMW from putting a DCT in the 1er? It may not be "M" spec -- but then again, there are many M accents incorporated in the 1er that BMW doesn't typically add until the end of a chassis lifecycle (which this clearly is not). Seems like yet another piece of information we've got to wait for...

it's not the same tranny
smg2 on m3 e46 and smg-c on "normal" e46
80ms response vs 150ms
6 programs vs 2 programs

[mikey]

Originally Posted by sectos

it's not the same tranny
smg2 on m3 e46 and smg-c on "normal" e46
80ms response vs 150ms
6 programs vs 2 programs

True, but BMW has placed some form of SMG transmissions in non-M cars. So it may or may not be a true M transmission, but in the past the option has been there. The 135i clearly portrays the sporting image that suits a dual clutch type transmission, if for no other reason than competitive companies offering similar packages as mentioned.

But hopefully the quantity of M goodies that the 1er is loaded with warrants an "M" transmission.

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by sectos

it's not the same tranny
smg2 on m3 e46 and smg-c on "normal" e46
80ms response vs 150ms
6 programs vs 2 programs

not quite the same performance level but the same basic idea. all the SMGs were the standard manual transmissions with electric hydraulic units to control the clutch and the shifting.

the SMG was also available in the 545i and 645i

[sectos]

Originally Posted by mikey

True, but BMW has placed some form of SMG transmissions in non-M cars. So it may or may not be a true M transmission, but in the past the option has been there. The 135i clearly portrays the sporting image that suits a dual clutch type transmission, if for no other reason than competitive companies offering similar packages as mentioned.

But hopefully the quantity of M goodies that the 1er is loaded with warrants an "M" transmission.

the smg-c is magneti marelli

Originally Posted by BMWeber

not quite the same performance level but the same basic idea. all the SMGs were the standard manual transmissions with electric hydraulic units to control the clutch and the shifting.

the SMG was also available in the 545i and 645i

indeed and I love mine
I'm hoping that the 135i will have a smg or dsg like tranny even if it's not the same as for the m3

[inTgr8r]

SMG was most definitely NOT an M only tranny.
Yes it started there, but it was available in many different cars.
I've personally driven SMG in an E46 330ci ZHP, and in a Z4.

[NC]

I doubt it. Just as the SMG was exclusive to the M's so will this dual clutch. It'll be one of their points to buy a M3 since horsepower can be surpassed by the 135/335i.

The 2008 M3's V8 is rated at 420 HP - how are you going to squeeze out an additional 120 HP from the 135/135i? :iono:

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by NC

The 2008 M3's V8 is rated at 420 HP - how are you going to squeeze out an additional 120 HP from the 135/135i? :iono:

^LOL +1....
Also they don't design trannies for what aftermarket tuners might do.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by Road Runner

If its similar to the DSG system used in VW and Audi it should be quite an impressive combo. I have the DSG in my current GLI, its quite impressive and the shifts truly are smooth. But as good as it is, and as great as the paddle shifters are in cornering and such, I still find its not as enjoyable as a proper manual. My 2 cents...

I know exactly what you mean...
There's nothing quite like a well executed heal & toe in the twisties.

Loosing that extra driver involvement, would be my biggest fear in choosing DSG.
It wouldn't be an easy decision.

[theslik1]

Originally Posted by NC

The 2008 M3's V8 is rated at 420 HP - how are you going to squeeze out an additional 120 HP from the 135/135i? :iono:

Yeah, it's a mystery...

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

I know exactly what you mean...
There's nothing quite like a well executed heal & toe in the twisties.

Loosing that extra driver involvement, would be my biggest fear in choosing DSG.
It wouldn't be an easy decision.

I have a E46 M3 with a SMG and my Wife has A GLI with the DSG. the DSG is nice quick and smooth but does not give you the control of the SMG. The DSG will down shift and up shift on you even when in manual mode and Primarily acts just like an automatic. its fun but not enthusiast fun. there is also to much engine breaking with the DSG making the shifts smooth but most likely losing some performance.

The SMG on the other hand does exactly what you want it to. shut of the traction control put it in level 6 and it lights up the tires shifting into 2nd. If your in manual mode the only time it will shift on you is coming to a stop so you don't stall. combine the best of both trannies (witch I hope BMW will do) you'll have an awesome transmission

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by BMWeber

I have a E46 M3 with a SMG and my Wife has A GLI with the DSG. the DSG is nice quick and smooth but does not give you the control of the SMG. The DSG will down shift on yo even when in manual mode and Primarily acts just like a automatic. its fun but not enthusiast fun. there is also to much engine breaking with the DSG making the shifts smooth but most likely losing some performance.

The SMG on the other hand does exactly what you want it to. shut of the traction control put it in level 6 and it lights up the tires shifting into 2nd. If your in manual mode the only time it will shift on you is coming to a stop so you don't stall. combine the best of both trannies (witch I hope BMW will do) you'll have an awesome transmission

Interesting post.... great comparison.
Let's hope BMW designs the software to behave more like the SMG did.

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Interesting post.... great comparison.
Let's hope BMW designs the software to behave more like the SMG did.

Im sure they will. The software of DSG has always been my annoyance as it really does limit the fun. DSG is a nice concept but VW really tried hard to make it drive exactly like an automatic.

I've driven SMG in numerous iterations, as well as DSG, and there is no question that SMG is a good performance-orientated gearbox but I think I would still rather have a proper gearbox.

[ppDoc]

Originally Posted by theslik1

Yeah, it's a mystery...

bigger turbos, decrease weight, and add a proCEDE v2, change tires.

[R32]

Originally Posted by MPower

Im sure they will. The software of DSG has always been my annoyance as it really does limit the fun. DSG is a nice concept but VW really tried hard to make it drive exactly like an automatic.

I've driven SMG in numerous iterations, as well as DSG, and there is no question that SMG is a good performance-orientated gearbox but I think I would still rather have a proper gearbox.

agreed. at this point, the dsg's only advantages over a torque converter slushbox is less drivetrain loss and faster shifts, at the cost of signficantly higher mechanical complexity.

there isn't a dual clutch transmission yet that can handle over 250 hp or so. mitsu evo x is supposed to have one and they are over 300. it will be interesting to see what bmw's offering will look like.

[Genericuser1]

Many automakers are adding a Dual Clutch transmission to their line ups. Volvo will get one shortly, Mitsubishi will debut theirs on the Evo X MR version, I think Chrysler will have one out soon. It will spread.