F8X M3/M4 vs 1M specs

[Mpro]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

The restricted dog photo is epic

Originally Posted by Artemis

Ha, the plot is thickening !

That might indeed be a sensible explanation for the wild figure on the notorious 2010 screenshot and the speculation about a powerful phantom Pyrat (1M CSL ?).

So maybe it was no typo, but a reference to a real 1M (aggressive set-up for testing by car journalists). Compare the 2010 and 2013 screenshots: 11/03 (March 2013). The 2013 screenshot features a car built in March 2011, thus amongst the first that were built (apart from pre-production cars built late 2010). Car journalists started testing the 1M from May 2011 onwards. And maybe the car they got to drive was the one with unrestricted power (unlocked with a software package, alike software packages for delimiting the speed limiter). All 1Ms produced for consumers (not for press tests) got electronically detuned to 340 hp.

True or false/coincidence ?

Anyways, if this happens to be true (which remains speculation, of course), then:

• ± 400 hp = aggressive Press set-up of the 1M for which the engine was actually designed and manufactured ("scharfe Presse-Setup wofür der Motor selbst eigentlich auch konstruiert und ausgelegt ")
• 340 hp = 'politically correct' electronic limitation ("politisch elektronisch eingebremst") to just under the E46 M3 hp value (which was 343 hp) - hey, it should remain a 1er;
• the detuned 1M has a significant power margin - far from the limit;
• original 1M power = trespassing M3 territory;
• BMW might have been worried about fast wear and tear of the aggressive press set-up - lots of power is merciless in straining mechanical engine parts + risk of younger demographic underestimating the power output and crashing 1Ms too easily;
• car journalists did not drive 'doped' 1Ms, no they were offered to drive the ones with unrestricted power output. Porsche and Ferrari: eat this !

Now I also understand why a 1M forum fellow who works at a BMW dealership, and who put an aggressive tune on his 1M (± 400 hp), told that he did not mind voiding the warranty by fitting the tune "because the 1M engine is strong enough to handle the tune".

So the 1M is actually not underpowered: no it is electronically restricted (muzzled). But the full power can be unlocked with a software package. So, does anyone wants Santa Claus to bring software package E89X-11-03-502 ?
Ooh, don't we all like those wild conspiracy theories. If true, then it might have cracked the code of the notorious 2010 screenshot mystery ?

Okay Dackel, move posts #35 and following from this thread into a separate new thread called "Was the 1M detuned to 340 hp ?"

Attachment 918334

Hey Luc,

Cool pic!
Reminds me of someone who's waiting for me at home...

The bodyshape of these guys is the same as our beloved cars!
Maybe he's also the reason why I like my 1M so much.
Only regret is not naming him 'Pyrat' when I bought him in 2004, but that would have been telepathy.

But he's a real teddy(bear)!!

[ozinaldo]

It is now revealed that S55 redline starts at 7500 rpm, 500 later than N54T.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by robertm

I'm so corn-fused. Is this TwinPower turboed car going to be twin turbo (two turbos) or twin scroll (single turbo)?

Really liking the specs. 430 something hp and 3300 something lbs will be a fantastic drivers car!

I'm thinking I could get into one of these in a few years. A 4 door, six speed without I-drive/nav and no sunroof would fit me nicely. First thing I'd do though is have someone program the auto rev match to be permanently off. I can rev match myself thanks very much!

The new F80 M4(and M3 sedan) will be called: TwinPower, but have TWO turbos unlike the N55 TwinScroll, single turbo with two inlets on the turbine.

I think BMW is playing with us.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by b33g33

It's definitely Twin-turbo

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

It is a bi-turbo (two turbos)

Originally Posted by Dackelone

The new F80 M4(and M3 sedan) will be called: TwinPower, but have TWO turbos unlike the N55 TwinScroll, single turbo with two inlets on the turbine.

So disappointing that BMW did not simply call it "Twix Turbo"...

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by Artemis

So disappointing that BMW did not simply call it "Twix Turbo"...

Attachment 918660Attachment 918661

Dang. I just brushed my teeth before going to bed.



Now I want some chocolate.

[HERR FSTIR]

Originally Posted by b33g33

It's definitely Twin-turbo (as in a turbo on each cylinder bank like our 1Ms). It seems like they took the block from the N55 and added the two turbos in a similar configuration to the N54.

This quote made me recall a comment posted by Scott26 in August 2010 regarding development of the 1M power plant:

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I am going to give you a clue.... The 1M powertrain is a Hybrid.

And when I mean Hybrid do not think of the current meaning of "Hybrid" - ie Alternative power , Electricity etc.... and use the original meaning of hybrid.

" When Two seperate entities become one".

Remember BMW evaluate every idea to determine what is the solution?

We now can clearly see what was implied by the term hybrid; the N55 block would be fused with the N54 manifold and twin turbo plumbing scheme (with improvements of associated cooling systems).

And now we finally have come full circle. What was intended for the 1M, but could not be successfully developed under stringent time and cost constraints, ultimately is the powerplant for the next generation M3/M4.

I believe Scott26 later revised his statement, and indicated the N55/N54 hybrid would be allocated for the forthcoming F8x M3/M4. Perhaps somebody can locate that post.

[Advevo]

I also posted this in reaction to the nurburgring footage of the M3 M4


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330
"The rear end is a major improvement over the E9x M3. You can really feel it"

Nice marketing talk!


You can see on all the footage how big the car really is. It more an M5 taking on the nurburgring and not an E36 or E46 M3.

You can see in the slides how much time you have to correct it. That means it s wheelbase is pretty large.

As a fun car you really need a less long wheelbase to get more agility and then need faster responses to catch a car out of a slide. For me it brings more exitement to drive a car like the 1M.

I really like the auto blip on downshifts and all the weight savings now bring it on in a smaller 2 series M car.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by HERR FSTIR

This quote made me recall a comment posted by Scott26 in August 2010 regarding development of the 1M power plant:




We now can clearly see what was implied by the term hybrid; the N55 block would be fused with the N54 manifold and twin turbo plumbing scheme (with improvements of associated cooling systems).

And now we finally have come full circle. What was intended for the 1M, but could not be successfully developed under stringent time and cost constraints, ultimately is the powerplant for the next generation M3/M4.I believe Scott26 later revised his statement, and indicated the N55/N54 hybrid would be allocated for the forthcoming F8x M3/M4. Perhaps somebody can locate that post.

I also think this is exactly what happened and what was intended since some time for this generation of M3.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Advevo

I also posted this in reaction to the nurburgring footage of the M3 M4


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330
"The rear end is a major improvement over the E9x M3. You can really feel it"

Nice marketing talk!


You can see on all the footage how big the car really is. It more an M5 taking on the nurburgring and not an E36 or E46 M3.

You can see in the slides how much time you have to correct it. That means it s wheelbase is pretty large.

As a fun car you really need a less long wheelbase to get more agility and then need faster responses to catch a car out of a slide. For me it brings more exitement to drive a car like the 1M.

I really like the auto blip on downshifts and all the weight savings now bring it on in a smaller 2 series M car.

It is BIG, no doubt about it and you can't really cover BIG with other strengths, as you finely explained in your post.

[Jay-K]

its insane.. its breakthrough in the use of extensive carbon fiber..
drive shaft.. never thought that was possible.

[OrangeCrush]

Imagine how light it would be if it didn't keep growing in size. I guess most people want the extra legroom and luggage space...

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Imagine how light it would be if it didn't keep growing in size. I guess most people want the extra legroom and luggage space...

I will imagine it right now!

I guess if exact same construction technology and materials would be applied to a 1M body and chassis and everything else (engine, equipment etc.) remaining exactly the same as it is, then it would be around 150 kg. lighter if not more, a 1300-1350 kg. 1M (DIN norm) compared to its actual 1500 (1495 to be exact). It would perform at the level of a GT3 on track and accelerate on straights better than a F10 M5 (till 200 km/h at least, before starting to suffer from aero), probably sub 4.0 seconds to 60 very easy (since Motor Trend drag race managed a 4.2 for the 1M, there is no way it would not improve a minimum 0.3 seconds after that diet).

Nothing like imagination

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

I will imagine it right now!

I guess if exact same construction technology and materials would be applied to a 1M body and chassis and everything else (engine, equipment etc.) remaining exactly the same as it is, then it would be around 150 kg. lighter if not more, a 1300-1350 kg. 1M (DIN norm) compared to its actual 1500 (1495 to be exact). It would perform at the level of a GT3 on track and accelerate on straights better than a F10 M5 (till 200 km/h at least, before starting to suffer from aero), probably sub 4.0 seconds to 60 very easy (since Motor Trend drag race managed a 4.2 for the 1M, there is no way it would not improve a minimum 0.3 seconds after that diet).

Nothing like imagination

Thanks OZ! Hopefully they use the same weight saving tech on the M2...along with sharing the M4's engine...maybe just detuned. I will then consider selling the 1M for it....or keep the 1M and get the M2...that will be up to the wife though...

[as7920]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I see cars in the earlist stage but I have other projects to work on that I cannot afford to be distracted as I have many projects not only for cars but I also conceive stuff for BMWTV.de The German only BMW TV channel which in some cases do not involve cars. With each project now we have started to do Pre-visualisation on the computer because we can show it to the director and production crew and explain this is the angles we want to get the perfect shot.


The time window for this car is extremely tight and originally enthusiasm was not apparent until Dr. Kay Segler came to the M Division.
We had initially toyed with the idea of an 1M when we were conceiving the Coupe and did work with evaluation models then using the engine from the
E46 and the upgraded E46 CSL engine but it proved to be too heavy for the car.

Originally in the early days of marketing the standard 135i was originally meant to be an M model.

The 1M that stands before you now has had possibly the most progressive stage from thought-production turnaround for a BMW. There had to be a lot of arm-twisting in the BMW Board because of the tight window between generation 1 and generation 2 of the Coupe. The proposal was greenlighted when BMW decided to use the Coupe model for the BMW eDrive evaluation.
Therefore slightly extending it's life cycle.

When I first saw the car it was in a design studio as a full scale claymodel but since then some designers ideas have to make way for aerodynamics and engineering. The initial engine proposal was the N55 but they were having issues that cannot be solved within the time window. BMW Greenlit this car in July 09, now over a year later we see it as it intended , although testing still commences until the launch. Valvetronic was the main cause of the time delay but BMW have spent some time on this and are using the N55 as a basis for the next M3.

The best way to describe the engine of the 1M is a "Hybrid" but in the original form of Hybrid, nothing to do with "alternatives", but it is not a straightforward transplant.

There is a lot of this car that will carry over for the next generation 1M in which that car will switch to four cylinders to which the M Division engineers are already working on the basics without time constraints or restrictions.
1M (E82) is showing what is possible in a small timeframe 1M (F22) will show what is possible once you do not have restrictions.

This will be what you are after:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...&postcount=533

Mark.

[ozinaldo]

BMW confirmed that M3/M4 will have the active sound which will not "play" a pre-recorded or artificial tune but real sound of the ENGINE only (not exhaust) via car's speakers

Since this "technology" made its way in both high-end (F10 M5) and lower-end performance models (M135i) before, now I am certain that future M2 will also feature it.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

BMW confirmed that M3/M4 will have the active sound which will not "play" a pre-recorded or artificial tune but real sound of the ENGINE only (not exhaust) via car's speakers
Since this "technology" made its way in both high-end (F10 M5) and lower-end performance models (M135i) before, now I am certain that future M2 will also feature it.

See: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...98&postcount=1

[MrRoboto]

Some glad I have a 1M.

[Mahlzeit]

Originally Posted by Artemis

See: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...98&postcount=1

I'm gonna hack mine so that it plays cowbell under hard acceleration because moar cowbell.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Mahlzeit

I'm gonna hack mine so that it plays cowbell under hard acceleration because moar cowbell.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by Jay-K

its insane.. its breakthrough in the use of extensive carbon fiber..
drive shaft.. never thought that was possible.

Lexus LFA has one no? Of course, that's 10x the price of the M3/4.

So, still a very impressive achievement.

[ozinaldo]

This is what I had to post as my comment on all this debate continuing in relevant F80 thread with full speed. It was a reaction to a fellow Forum member:

"Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico View Post

I am amazed by how this little thing has most here with your panties in a bunch.

I have owned an E46 M3, now E90 M3 & 1M.

I recently drove both the M135i and the M5 and they sound fantastic. Who gives a damn about this as long as the sound is believable and great.

Get a life people. I wish my 1M had this system. It needs it."

And my response is as follows:

"With due to respect to a fellow 1M owner, I disagree. In fact, I believe if you go and ask this in the 1M Forum as a poll, I bet you will be in absolute minority who thinks this is a much needed feature.

Not that the car has enough engine noise, in that sense yes it needs it.

But, it sure doesn't need to "fix" this lack of engine noise through controversial technology. And there will be lots of people like me who will think that "believable" is not good enough.

Because 1M is all about simplicity and rawness. It is a straightforward machine and doesn't need to cover its inherent weaknesses with anything, the rest of the car is good enough to make you forget about that and no need to try to make it feel like "perfect". I need some kind of intimacy with a car that I really love to drive and own, I don't need technology tries to show me that it is better than it actually is.

The fact that this technology is essentially in use just to imitate something which is not there, at least not as much as it used to be in the past, is in a way an admission of guilt and I perceive it as cheating, with good intention maybe but still it feels like cheating.

That's my 2 cents about all this."

[ozinaldo]

146 posts in just a few hours, and I guess moderators started to get really irritated about the way that "active sound" debate was going on, they must have felt that it is getting out of control and will lead to countereffective results. So they just closed the thread. I got lucky and my post that I quoted above was the penultimate one. Hope didn't help them taking this decision and I thought there was some interesting arguments in that thread from both sides