Base 128i suspension upgrades w/ minimal drop

[snub-nose 28]

Originally Posted by gjm120

I think front toe gets thrown off and creates the most wonky driving. There is a threaded tie rod with a clamping nut that is easy to adjust toe, but probably very easy to make a bigger mess as well.

Hopefully someone who has done this will chime in. I obviously need to do more research before starting the project.

Chiming in here if I may:
When you are doing the M3 lower control arms/tension strut mod and, you delete the locating pin, (to move to inner-most range limit of motion) then you adjust each outer tie rod end [I]outward [I]by exactly 3.5 turns. Quite straight-forward, not too bad task. Just did it yesterday. The 4-whl alignment indicated it was perfect, the 'straight-ahead spec' being 0.06 d. toe-in.
****** Thanks to fe1rx for this invaluable insight!!

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by snub-nose 28

Chiming in here if I may:
When you are doing the M3 lower control arms/tension strut mod and, you delete the locating pin, (to move to inner-most range limit of motion) then you adjust each outer tie rod end [I]outward [I]by exactly 3.5 turns. Quite straight-forward, not too bad task. Just did it yesterday. The 4-whl alignment indicated it was perfect, the 'straight-ahead spec' being 0.06 d. toe-in.
****** Thanks to fe1rx for this invaluable insight!!

Thanks for the input. I haven't started this yet so the help is timely.

If I leave the pins in I've been told the additional camber from the M3 arms is about -0.75deg. If I decide I'm happy with that much camber and don't knock out the pins, is 3.5 turns still about right?

[squidge]

Originally Posted by gjm120

Thanks for the input. I haven't started this yet so the help is timely.

If I leave the pins in I've been told the additional camber from the M3 arms is about -0.75deg. If I decide I'm happy with that much camber and don't knock out the pins, is 3.5 turns still about right?

It's probably "about" right, but you should still absolutely get an alignment.

[snub-nose 28]

Re: pins delete or not?

The soft alloy pins are there for 1) assured alignment from factory, and 2) to build in understeer, cuz the attorneys want it that way!

You/Me/us by contrast, as drivers, discerning to the point of ocd at that,
want to remove the understeering flaw of 1series. Dam* the worms.

Remove the pins and be done with renegade attorneys practicing car stuff!

You can revert to 'attorney spec' any time-just align the mating holes.

Q: Why keep them? Why contemplate front mods and retain the pins? Counter intuitive. Just sayin'...get an alignment after your mods- as recommended countless times on every BMW forum in the universe.

[snub-nose 28]

Originally Posted by gjm120

Thanks for the input. I haven't started this yet so the help is timely.

If I leave the pins in I've been told the additional camber from the M3 arms is about -0.75deg. If I decide I'm happy with that much camber and don't knock out the pins, is 3.5 turns still about right?

Yes, it is right. Down at that level the 'attorney pins' have no true influence as regards toe-in. Maybe on the margins, but that is what the alignment (re)sets.

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by snub-nose 28

Yes, it is right. Down at that level the 'attorney pins' have no true influence as regards toe-in. Maybe on the margins, but that is what the alignment (re)sets.

I'm leaning toward removing the pins. One (maybe silly) thought is that the car is still under warranty and I didn't want to give BMW an excuse to void any part of the wtty.

As to alignment - without a doubt I'll get one. I have read where the car can be difficult to drive after suspension mods for even short distances. Just want to get to the shop without drama.

[snub-nose 28]

Originally Posted by gjm120

I'm leaning toward removing the pins. One (maybe silly) thought is that the car is still under warranty and I didn't want to give BMW an excuse to void any part of the wtty.

As to alignment - without a doubt I'll get one. I have read where the car can be difficult to drive after suspension mods for even short distances. Just want to get to the shop without drama.

I understand the warranty item. More attorneys. Just kiddin'.

Car drove perfectly with the set-up as described. PERFECT. FLAWLESS geometry. I went for the alignment to close the loop, with a printout. DMTS

The 'stories' did not reset tie-rod end adjustment is my guess - as I read them too.. I stumbled on it in fe1rx threads (bless that man and his contributions to this forum-clearly among the most insightful) Read them...several times.

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by snub-nose 28

I understand the warranty item. More attorneys. Just kiddin'.

Car drove perfectly with the set-up as described. PERFECT. FLAWLESS geometry. I went for the alignment to close the loop, with a printout. DMTS

The 'stories' did not reset tie-rod end adjustment is my guess - as I read them too.. I stumbled on it in fe1rx threads (bless that man and his contributions to this forum-clearly among the most insightful) Read them...several times.

yep. I've read his threads and learned a lot.

I've 1 more freebie oil change am probably naive thinking I can put M3 fr control arms on and the dealer won't notice I've modified the suspension.

Question - is there any tweaking in the rear to get the car driveable? I'm changing out std for sport suspension in addition to the control arms. The alignment shop is 1 - 7 miles away (2 choices).

[gjm120]

Well I finally got around to doing the upgrades this past weekend. Installed a sport suspension (135i I bought off of here with low miles) and the M3 front control arms. I had the struts assembled with new hardware but did the install myself.

It's done and the difference in ride is very noticeable. Stiffer and much better steering response. I am really happy. Nearly a rough ride as I'm still on run flats, but I love the road feel and tight steering. It's obvious the suspension was designed around run flats.

Didn't get much drop which is what I wanted. I'm actually surprised at the slight amount of drop. My car is an AT ( I know mistake ) and loaded up so it's as heavy as most 135's. Could be that my suspension had 40,000 miles and this one had around 10,000.

I turned the toe arms outward 3 turns as recommended by someone on this site and it worked great. I feel I don't even need an alignment. Will probably drive it a little bit to let things settle before getting an alignment. Or maybe leave it alone to wear out the tires to force me to buy non RF's.

I passed on putting on the 135i sway bar for two reasons. One I was just beat up from the whole job and tired of being under a car. Also, since the base 128i doesn't have a rear sway bar I was concerned about suspension balance by having the front so buttoned up with the stock rear. Does this make sense?

[Gangplank]

It will likely settle a bit more with a few hundred miles. Suspensions settle in a bit.

In the 128 section there is a lot of info re: front sways.

[gjm120]

[QUOTE=Gangplank;21165919]It will likely settle a bit more with a few hundred miles. Suspensions settle in a bit.

In the 128 section there is a lot of info re: front sways.[/QUOTE

Thanks.
Should I wait for it to settle to get an alignment?

[HP Autosport]

[QUOTE=gjm120;21165989]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

It will likely settle a bit more with a few hundred miles. Suspensions settle in a bit.

In the 128 section there is a lot of info re: front sways.[/QUOTE

Thanks.
Should I wait for it to settle to get an alignment?

It's not likely going to settle any if you installed used dampers and springs. Did you torque down the thrust arms with the suspension loaded? If not, that may affect the overall spring rate a bit and maybe add some ride height in the process.

If you are going to add the larger front 135i front bar, you should also add the rear to keep it balanced. That said, the E8x and E9x chassis don't respond well to too large of a rear bar due to the lack of LSD. Depending on the current balance of the car, the 135i front bar may benefit or hurt it.

[gjm120]

[QUOTE=HP Autosport;21181073]

Originally Posted by gjm120

It's not likely going to settle any if you installed used dampers and springs. Did you torque down the thrust arms with the suspension loaded? If not, that may affect the overall spring rate a bit and maybe add some ride height in the process.

If you are going to add the larger front 135i front bar, you should also add the rear to keep it balanced. That said, the E8x and E9x chassis don't respond well to too large of a rear bar due to the lack of LSD. Depending on the current balance of the car, the 135i front bar may benefit or hurt it.

Yes did torque the arms with the suspension loaded. It has settled a little, but, not much chance in ride height. That is fine with me as the thread title shows. I'm pleased to have a firmer more responsive feeling car with a little lowering.

Based on your and other advice, I'm going to hold off with the 135i front sway. Someday when I get around to addressing the rear suspension, I'll add a sway and then look at upgrading the front.

Thanks for the input.

[gjm120]

Got the car aligned after the suspension work. Much less camber up front than many others have seen, but, I left the pins in so not too surprised.

I wanted a little closer to 0 toe. This attached is what I got. On the car I believe 0.18deg is 5/64". I'm assuming the convention of positive toe means toe-in.

Any opinions? Should I be pleased with this? Will I experience abnormal tire wear?

I will say I'm really happy with the way the car now handles.

[John_01]

Positive toe means Toe-IN, which is what you want for street usage.

+0.18 degree per side front toe is a bit high. That is the upper limit of the toe spec. Its not a problem as the car obviously drives well. Tire wear should be even. I would probably just wait until the next alignment. The car is likely to settle more after the suspension install anyway.

The steering is likely to feel more responsive with less front toe-in. For a performance / street alignment, front toe-in around +0.04 to +0.08 degree per side would ideal IMO. Rear toe around +0.12 to +0.18 is fine, because it will drift out of spec more than the front. The rear seems ok as it is.

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by John_01

Positive toe means Toe-IN, which is what you want for street usage.

+0.18 degree per side front toe is a bit high. That is the upper limit of the toe spec. Its not a problem as the car obviously drives well. Tire wear should be even. I would probably just wait until the next alignment. The car is likely to settle more after the suspension install anyway.

The steering is likely to feel more responsive with less front toe-in. For a performance / street alignment, front toe-in around +0.04 to +0.08 degree per side would ideal IMO. Rear toe around +0.12 to +0.18 is fine, because it will drift out of spec more than the front. The rear seems ok as it is.

Thanks. I actually had asked for front toe to be set at the low end of the spec, but, this is what I got. I have to say steering is more responsive than it was two weeks before due to putting on M3 front arms and a 135i suspension. So if this won't eat up tires I'm a happy bunny.