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[mattryan]

Winter's coming and I'm debating whether or not to get another set of wheels and winter tires or just change my tires to all season... Is the 135 horrible in the snow?

[miiipilot]

I ran Michelin A/S Plus in Cleveland, Ohio. We get a lot of snow (Lake effect)

Ran like a champ except for 1 day, which there was over 12 inches of snow in my condo complex. Couldn't get traction b/c the snow lifted the car. I will run them this winter again and we will see how well they do with 10000 miles of wear on them. I'm not skirred.

[RimasRS]

With car torque 400nm RWD I don't think so... Though I don't know what kind of winters do you have over there. And if you want to drive those tires during the summer you will not get best performance out of them also. So what's the point?

[FDM68]

I did the conti DWS before and had no problem even upto 8 inches of snow. This was on my 325 a bit back. Last year I did have snow tires on my 1er and had no problem. Went up and down hills and through the nasty stuff pretty well. Getting ready to put Conti DWS on my wifes mini for winter.

[MikeinAlexandria]

Living in Canada, if I were you, I would go for real snow tires. All season tires are meant to allow you to get around in moderate climates year round. I tried my all seasons in just a tiny but of snow and ice last winter and they just didn't get much traction. Also, real snow tires have tread compounds that are designed to stay soft and flexible at below freezing temps. All seasons and summer tires get very hard as they get cold, which further reduces traction.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by mattryan

Winter's coming and I'm debating whether or not to get another set of wheels and winter tires or just change my tires to all season... Is the 135 horrible in the snow?

All-season tires do not belong on 300hp rear wheel drive sports coupes.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GaryS

All-season tires do not belong on 300hp rear wheel drive sports coupes.

Why not? It's not like it's a high performance car with great handling. It's a moderately quick and comfortable GT car. I put Michelin A/S on ours, as my M Coupe has PS2's and we needed something that could handle snow when we go to see family. They suit the car in my opinion. They handle about the same as the stock RFT's ride a ton better, especially over expansion strips and wear like iron. Plus they handle snow fine and provided you shift early and go easy on the right pedal, the 135i is actually quite easy to drive in snow and ice.

Sure, it's easy to light them up, and they will squeal a bit if you really get on it in first, but so would the stock Bridgestones. Sure, I know that it would be a little crisper with PSS or similar tires, but that would just further expose the middling handling of the 1er. If you're trying to get every ounce of handling out of the car, then of course two sets of tires, one summer and one proper set of winters would be ideal, but for all around purposes, which I personally think is more of the focus of the 135i, they strike a reasonable sacrifice.

[BrokenVert]

1) this topic gets discussed every fall and as such is easily searchable.

2) why would you buy allseasons in leu of winter tires? Do you not plan on running summer tires anymore?

3) with proper snow tires (I use Dunlop D3s) the 1 is perfectly fine in most snow. It can become a handful but I've only stuffed my car into a snowbank once (I live in Syracuse, the snowiest city in CONUS and it's very hilly)

4) if you don't think that with a few cheap upgrades and proper tires that the 1 isn't a high performance car than we are obviously driving different cars.

5) you will not go anywhere in a moderate snow with all seasons (all seasons=no seasons)

[Red Bread]

1) Agreed, this is frequently discussed, especially this time of year

2) I have a car that's much more fun to drive, has a limited slip and gets tracked, something the 1er just isn't suited to without significant changes

3) I have driven the 1er with a/s tires in snow and ice and can't say I miss full snow tires, it plain works

4) I can buy that, I also suspect that we might just have different expectations and experiences that lead us to different opinions on this matter

5) I disagree with this, but accept that you believe it. I will note that I've actually driven a 1er in snow, with A/S and suspect you have not

I'm not saying you're wrong on any of these things, in fact I quite value your opinion on a car that I think we both enjoy quite a bit. I just think it's possible for two people to own similar cars and have quite different expectations for it and enjoy them in different ways.

To be fair, if I lived in Toronto or NY and didn't have a second, snow capable car, I'd be more inclined to get full snows on the 1er and not a/s, but I also don't think it's the travesty that some do to put a/s tires on the 1er.

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Why not? It's not like it's a high performance car with great handling. It's a moderately quick and comfortable GT car. I put Michelin A/S on ours, as my M Coupe has PS2's and we needed something that could handle snow when we go to see family. They suit the car in my opinion. They handle about the same as the stock RFT's ride a ton better, especially over expansion strips and wear like iron. Plus they handle snow fine and provided you shift early and go easy on the right pedal, the 135i is actually quite easy to drive in snow and ice.

Sure, it's easy to light them up, and they will squeal a bit if you really get on it in first, but so would the stock Bridgestones. Sure, I know that it would be a little crisper with PSS or similar tires, but that would just further expose the middling handling of the 1er. If you're trying to get every ounce of handling out of the car, then of course two sets of tires, one summer and one proper set of winters would be ideal, but for all around purposes, which I personally think is more of the focus of the 135i, they strike a reasonable sacrifice.

Lets see.. whats wrong with this response.....

Maybe that the OP is in CANADA.. and i think there is a little bit more snow and or sub 40 deg weather there then in TEXAS!! even if visiting the family is in a cold climate, that is a world of difference from having to drive every day back and forth to work and hope not to get stuck, or slide off the road.

and what does HP / stlye of car have to do with it... ever see a caprice / crown vic ( taxi or police car) try to accelerate from a stop light in the snow / light snow????? nobody is talking about doing laps with snowtires, just driving everyday in regular situiations is enough of a chore.

Snow tires are a world of difference better ( i use dunlop d3's ) They are on the car for 3 or 4 months, and they handle / handled all i could throw at them thru 6 snowstorms and a blizzard that left the roads covered for days but i never once got to work late.

also remember summer tires dont work very well in sub 40 deg weather.. they are rock hard, and offer a lot less grip.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Why not?

I don't see the point. If I was willing to sacrifice that much performance and fun factor, I would drive a V6 Accord. Anyway, I would definitely rather own a 128i with summer and winter performance tires than a 135i with all-season tires.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

.

2) that's fair. I don't, but I also don't like to drive a compromise car, it's bad enough that we don't have an LSD, but I don't see how owning an M coupe makes you less inclined to want the best for your car.

3) it may work in Texas. But my uncle lives in Houston and I've seen his "winters" and all seasons are fine for that purpose. NY winters and subsequently Toronto winters (I'm in the same snow belt as the OP) are far worse. And it's a different type of snow.

4) That's also fair, the 1er is the fastest car that I've personally owned, so my opinion in that matter is probably a bit skewed.

5) no I haven't driven a 1er in snow with all seasons, but I don't items to, I've had enough close calls in snow as I want to, on full snow tires.
I also may have spoken a bit hastily, in a capable snow car (like my 302 AWD Mountaineer) all seasons are more than enough. My Merc can outdrive my 1 in the snow with it's eyes closed on it's BFGs. But the 1er is not a snow car, and it needs all of the advantages it can get.

I value your opinion too, it's nice to have a difference of opinion on this forum be civilized for once and not a you suck and are wrong cause a vert thing.

Ive driven from NYC to Syracuse through the middle of the state during winter a hundred times, and it's not cake walk in the snow. 8% grades that last for miles both up and downhill, dodging idiot trucks, and slow semis. Even doing it once with frozen washer fluid jets(first frost/snow of the season guess I didn't get all of the summer fluid flushed out, that one sucked! Solved by revving the crap out of the engine on a straight and level portion, underhood temps up to 270 and melted it after a few minutes)

But it's all a moot point because the OP lives in Canada and isn't it law there that between November and march all cars must wear proper snow shoes?

I got screened about at the border the last time I went to Toronto.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GaryS

I don't see the point. If I was willing to sacrifice that much performance and fun factor, I would drive a V6 Accord. Anyway, I would definitely rather own a 128i with summer and winter performance tires than a 135i with all-season tires.

Don't be silly. I've tracked an M3 with a/s rubber, and it's actually more fun than super sticky rubber. If you're scared of sideways and opposite lock, it might be worth looking into that Accord, but if you actually want to have fun in near-legal limits, you might be surprised how fun a moderately powerful car on a/s rubber can be.

For those that think there's really a big performance difference, have you driven on Pilot A/S tires? I'd think that in sub 100 degree temps, I could do lap times within 2% of the times of the OE RFT's. Are they PSS's or Star Specs, no but they're not far off of tires I see recommended frequently like the Hankooks and better than many "summer" tires like Yoko S-Drives and Toyo T1-R's.

I know it's an easy phrase to remember that all seasons = no seasons, but I've actually got experience with them. As for snow, I've dealt with New Mexico winters, including runs up the Santa Fe ski area and to Taos a few times, so I'm not just dealing with the once a year Dallas ice storms. I can vouch for the absolute uselessness of PS2's in sub 40 degree temps and wouldn't for a second consider using them in snow.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Don't be silly. I've tracked an M3 with a/s rubber, and it's actually more fun than super sticky rubber. If you're scared of sideways and opposite lock, it might be worth looking into that Accord, but if you actually want to have fun in near-legal limits, you might be surprised how fun a moderately powerful car on a/s rubber can be.

It rains here, a lot, so we don't need bad tires to have fun sliding around on track; and I assumed the OP was talking about street anyway. But whatever. You are now arguing in favor of worse performance over better performance, so I'm going to move on.

[fourtailpipes]

i have a slightly different opinion on allseasons. i've been using kumho asx allseasons every winter since 2005/2006. this includes my e46 m3 and 135i. i agree that they are neither fish nor fowl, meaning they're definitely not as good as snowtires in the snow, and they're not as good as summer tires in the dry, but with NJ winters, the vast majority of what i'm dealing with is not snow, but slushy slop and rain. the kumhos offer GREAT wet performance, quite good performance in slop, acceptable performance in small amounts of snow, and are way less disappointing than snow tires on the 75% of the winter days that are just cold/dry in my area. i have the liberty of working from home anytime there's more than a little snow, so that's not a concern for me. in short, allseasons aren't necessarily pointless... they just may not serve the interests of the majority.

[JimD]

In plan to put "ultra performance" all seasons on my 128i when the tread is gone from the OEM tires due to the higher tread wear rating versus summer performance tires. I will probably give away some cornering but I only run an autocross once a year and would finish well away from first regardless of my tires. I have a SUV to drive in bad weather so the bimmer will probably stay in the garage regardless.

I drove for nearly 30 years in snow country. My first car was a 1966 mustang which I assure you is harder to drive in slick conditions than any bimmer. I used all season, snow, and studded snow tires on the 66. The studs help a lot on ice but are not legal anymore. The difference between all season and snow tires is nowhere near what people who have not used both claim. You cannot go in deep snow with a car anyway due to limited ground clearance. The snow under the car will lift the wheels off the pavement. I don't really see the point of snow tires in most circumstances. If you feel you want to drive summer performance tires in the summer and will only use the alternates in snow, maybe it makes sense. But even then I would probably make the alternates all season. They are normally quieter, wear longer, and better on most days when it is more wet/sloppy than snow on the road.

Jim

[Kamal]

Running all season tires on an AWD car is fine in the winter... for our cars, RWD and 300hp+, proper winter tires in a must. I'd recommend some sort of "performance winter" tire instead of a "studless winter" tire.

[Brian@bavarianx]

Check out the new General G-Max AS-03! They received some pretty good reviews for rain and snow!!!

[ken1137]

The last time i was in Toronto and Midland in the Winter the snow drifts were taller than the houses. I would recommend snow tires with good ice traction due to your colder climate.

[timhatimay]

It seems like everyone is omitting the important part of tires...braking and turning!

I've used A/S tires on the car (Michelin Pilot A/S PluS), and have now changed to Blizzaks. There is a major difference in the cars manners, grip, and control. Accelerating is only a small piece of the puzzle, and really the least important part. Also, I got stuck 3-4 times with the AS tires, and only got stuck once with the winters, and that was with snow at my front bumper. They turn and stop well, and inspire much more confidence. My tail was out and spinning on every turn with the AS tires. The car also tends to drift more and slide into ruts (not Tokyo drift, but shift slowly according to the slope of the road).

If you get any snow or ice at all, I highly recommend dedicated snows. I've used both, and can say they are significantly better.

Tim

[M3Newbie88]

I like how everyone is talking about snow when no one has mentioned the effect of the lower temperatures.. hence the person in Texas will never encounter this. In Toronto there won't be many massive snow storms but once we get one they are brutal.. recent winters are mild however again once it gets cold it is friggin cold.. understand A/S tires are good to a certain temperature. Once it drops below that the grip and material of the tire does not hold up.. just think of a brick on an ice rink..

Like others have said.. get good snow tires and good summer tires.. it equals the same.. and like in Quebec snow tires are mandatory.. why endanger your life.. heck your endangering others lives.. just my 2 cents.

[JimD]

I believe those who talk about temperature effects on traction have been reading too many tire commercials. It is a minor effect. Winter tires have to be able to not fall apart on a sunny warm winter day so they cannot have a big difference in the compound.

Whether you will be happy with all season is probably largely a function of your expectation. I know I have to take it easy when the weather is bad and I have gotten by for decades on all season. Maybe I could have gone a little bit faster with snow tires. I don't know but I know I didn't get stuck and got where I was going with the all seasons. If you try to drive like you do on dry pavement, you are going to get into trouble regardless of what tires you use.

If you want maximum performance you need specialized tires. If you just want to get where you are going when it snows, my experience is very good with all seasons. I will also say, again, that snow on the roads is fairly rare and only lasts for a few hours, at least where I've lived. I've purposely gone outside the city to find some to have fun but in terms of me getting somewhere I really needed to go, it has been an awfull lot more slush and wet than snow. Ice is a mess regardless of your tires (unless you can run studs or put on chains).

The last time we got significant snow where I live now I almost took the bimmer out with it's summer performance tires just to reference for threads like this. The only reason I didn't is I didn't want to get run into. Tires are not the primary issue in adverse conditions. Drivers are the primary issue.

Jim