1M Coupe Longdrifts

[Sylon]

Awesome car control, well done sir.

[eeghie]

awesome, where do you teach?

Does this mean you got yours already or was it a 'loaner'?

[GoingTooFast]

The secret of Advevo's drifting ability... left-foot braking :

(...)the technique is still beneficial when the driver needs to decelerate and slide at the same time. In rear wheel drive, left foot braking can be used when the car is at opposite lock and about to spin. Using throttle and brake will lock the front tires but not the rears, thus giving the rears more traction and bringing the front end around.

(...)left-foot braking can induce a mild oversteer situation, and help the car "tuck", or turn-in better. Mild left-foot braking can also help reduce understeer.

Additionally:

To counter the effect of the turbocharger's lag time (...) the driver uses his left foot to brake the car while his right foot accelerates to keep the turbocharger in optimal load. Left foot braking is very hard on the brakes which are put into extreme stress but is very efficient in keeping the turbo spinning.

That's the reason why Advevo states the following:

Originally Posted by Advevo

Yeah i have used the sport button. I have the idea that with sport on, the turbo s react a little bit faster. That s what you need in a drift. The fastest throttle input as possible. That gives more control.

In fact, left-foot braking is VERY effective in getting 'The fastest throttle input as possible' from both turbo and naturally-aspirated engines because one doesn't need to take the foot off the throttle when decelerating. Thus, smooth, immediate acceleration is ready whenever needed.

[///1M]

Wow - very impressive.

[M3Power79]

Spotted on a well known Dutch website :

http://www.autoblog.nl/archive/2011/...erlands-asfalt

I would not like it , they mentioned your first and lastname!

Tomorrow the cops are after you

[GoingTooFast]

On a second look at these long drifts:

Originally Posted by Advevo

we can see that actually Advevo isn't using the LFB technic because the brake lights are off.


Advevo,

Does it mean the 1M is a better balanced car than the M3 E46 or is just that your skills evolved?

[Peteypab2133]

nice driving ! Dont make that car more rare than it already is (aka insurance claim )

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Peteypab2133

nice driving !

Yeah! It's a shame that Advevo doesn't like to talk much about its drifting technic or the differences that he finds between the many good cars he has owned in terms of balance and drift ability - between 1M and M3 E46, for instance.

I'm sure we would all have a lot to learn from him. He goes into all the trouble of making these excelent vids but then he doesn't say much about how to do it... which makes them sort of pointless...


Advevo,

Stop 'showing-off' and teach 1M owners something...

[hollysmac]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Advevo - weren't you the guy with the e46M3 who was worried about drifting the 1M. ??? I remember something about you wondering IF the turbos would kill the ability to trow teh car sidewas in mid turn. Clearly this is NOT a problem for the 1M.


I wonder how many miles/kilometers ppl wil get out of their rear tires on a 1M. Some 135i guys only get 9K miles out of the rear!


Dackel

I was thinking the same thing.I think 9k miles is optimistic

[SilverII]

nice

[lavaletta]

Whoever was doing the filming from the outside of the curve had nuts of steel!!!

[biglare]

Nice Vids!

[Advevo]

I am not showing off. That s the last thing i would do.

I am just sharing it with you guys because i know you all like such drifts. And Because it s a 1M

The car is stock psi.

The corners were very long ones so i did not use left foot braking. But i always have the leftfoot at the brakes to be fast if something goes wrong.

The other movie of me which is shown here i use the leftbraking more because you go from faster corners to slower corners then you need to brake while drifting so you use throttle to keep the car sideways and brake also to slow down for a sharper corner.

When you do drifting like this and there is no room for error. Then you have to learn to use leftfoot braking.

When i drive a racecar which has a seq shifter i do all the braking leftfoot.

some movie footage of it.

There are lot more movies on my Youtube channel about racing drifting trackdays on the limit etc. You can learn from them.

http://www.youtube.com/user/advevo?feature=mhsn


If you have any more questions i will answer.

[M3Power79]

Leftfoot braking I completely don't have "feeling" in it. When i push i end up with my face at the window

[marcel b]

Originally Posted by M3Power79

Leftfoot braking I completely don't have "feeling" in it. When i push i end up with my face at the window

lol, so true (talking from experience)

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Advevo

I am not showing off. That s the last thing i would do.

I was teasing you.

Originally Posted by Advevo

I am just sharing it with you guys because i know you all like such drifts. And Because it s a 1M

The fact is, people like to watch such drifts BUT sure 1M owners would like even more to be able to do it because the car seems to be made for that.

We know that you are a pro driver and many here aren't (the vast majority I suppose) therefore it would be nice if we could learn from your experience.

Originally Posted by Advevo

The corners were very long ones so i did not use left foot braking. But i always have the leftfoot at the brakes to be fast if something goes wrong.

The other movie of me which is shown here i use the leftbraking more because you go from faster corners to slower corners then you need to brake while drifting so you use throttle to keep the car sideways and brake also to slow down for a sharper corner.

When you do drifting like this and there is no room for error. Then you have to learn to use leftfoot braking.

Thank you for your explanation and your availability to answer to our questions. So, my first questions to you are:


1. What do you recommend people to do to learn how to use LFB in drifting?

2. How do you initiate such a long drift like those shown in your 1M's vid?

3. Would you do it the same way if the road wasn't so wet?

4. Do you use LFB to 'catch' the car if the slide angle is too big or you just ease the throttle?

5. When using LFB in drifting do you give a quick tap on the brake pedal or just lightly tap it?

6. In what situation is there overlap between brake and throttle pedals action?


I'm sorry for so many questions but the 1M is ALL about driving so it's about driving we should talk the most.

[Advevo]

Thank you for your explanation and your availability to answer to our questions. So, my first questions to you are:


1. What do you recommend people to do to learn how to use LFB in drifting?

Just learn in the road. Try everyday just to put youre left foot easy on the brake. Try to get feeling in it. Don t try in a drift though. Just try in 2 or 3rd gear in a straight line.

2. How do you initiate such a long drift like those shown in your 1M's vid?

Because it s a turbo i mostly have 5% throttle before i start the drift so turbo lag is at a minimum. The most dangerous part is to start the drift. Especially with turbo with high NM. You end up going into a dougnut faster then a drift
You need to react fast with the steeringwheel when the power comes in. The rear diff is going to lock and the back will let go very hard. You need to react fast. Then you ease off throttle a little bit and steer the car with throttle.

3. Would you do it the same way if the road wasn't so wet?

Yes it s the same way only you need to have even faster responses you get less time to react and the speed is even higher.

4. Do you use LFB to 'catch' the car if the slide angle is too big or you just ease the throttle?

Both.

5. When using LFB in drifting do you give a quick tap on the brake pedal or just lightly tap it?

No it s always just lightly tap it's real smooth.

6. In what situation is there overlap between brake and throttle pedals action?

You can use it for

When you drift from a highspeed corner to a low speed corner.
Or when you go a little wide you ease over the brake padel to get nose more to the inside.
You can use to get the speed down in a drift. To use throttle and brake on same time.
When things go wrong you can react real fast to get as much speed out of the car before things go really wrong.


But please try it on closed tracks or very big wet or snowy parking lots. It s not an easy thing i am doing this very often on track and driftinstruction days on closed tracks.

[EmmDrei]

Originally Posted by Advevo

>> 1. What do you recommend people to do to learn how to use LFB in drifting?

Just learn in the road. Try everyday just to put youre left foot easy on the brake. Try to get feeling in it. Don t try in a drift though. Just try in 2 or 3rd gear in a straight line.

I beg to differ in one point, Andre. Even though I'm not a drift expert, I once had to learn left foot braking though (fwd rallye cars).

Imho the best (and safest) way to get a feeling for the brakes, in your left foot, is karting. Indoor karts are fairly safe to train yourself and then, once you actually know your left foot does, what you want it to do, then I'd try it in a car.

@GoingTooFast: Something you have to realize though, when you see racers and drifters use certain driving techniques, then most of the time you are looking at cars, that i.e. have an adjustable or at least optimized brake bias. A stock car doesn't. Modern cars usually do not even have a brake balance anymore, the ABS system has to take care of that.

You won't learn driving techniques by reading about them, it's learning by training. Those techniques have to be trained and re-trained over and over again until they work like instincts. Just like a soldier that takes his rifle apart. He has been drilled so often, that he can do it blindfolded, with his hands behind his back, etc. He doesn't think about it. You will and as long as you do that, chances are you'll always be too slow to react. And something else to bear in mind: a capable driver does not react to the car (minutely, in the sense of balancing, yes he does), he makes the car do what he wants it to do. As long as you are reacting, you're not driving the car, the car is driving you.

[Mark M]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Wet public road plenty of trees, ditches, no side-barriers and a 1M with DSC off. So "Plan B" is no option. Man, you got to trust your excellent driving skills for any such undertakings. Kudoes to you.

If you'd challenge me for that, I will either chicken out or you can post the video of my attempt on YouTube with a title "1M crash on public road". So I'll live with the "don't try this at home" advice.

Agree 100%. Props to him for his excellent car control skills. Me on the other hand.....My stones aint big enough for that. My luck, I'd wrap the new 1M around a pole or a tree and then sit there crying like a girl.

I've done dozens of CCA and other driving schools or tracks all over Eastern US. Great fun. But I have also once had an accident on public roads in my XI that could have been avoided if I were smart enough to keep DSC on. Guess you could say, with age I lose some of my propensity towards risk.

[EmmDrei]

Originally Posted by Mark M

Props to him for his excellent car control skills.

If I may say something to that: I have had the pleasure to actually sit next to Advevo while he did that. Both in a 1M, as well as in a 911. I have also had the pleasure to sit next to the undoubtable king of car control (Walter Röhrl) while he was driving a short special stage in a 911. None of what Advevo does is luck. It is a mixture of an enormous talent, as well as well trained skill. Imho he is not that far away from someone like Röhrl. A lot closer at least, than I will ever be. But for someone with less talent I think it is safe to always add a little "kids, don't try this at home".

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

None of what Advevo does is luck. It is a mixture of an enormous talent, as well as well trained skill.

That's what I'm sayin'... if we are going to learn it better be from the best.


Of course one has to practice till it becomes 'muscle memory' and do it in safe conditions all at the same time.

However, what would you be practicing if you didn't know what to practice in first place, right?!

We need to know the basic principles.

Since I have had my Cayman (which has a Rear Mid-engine, Rear-wheel drive layout) I'm used to left-foot braking for two reasons:

1. Brake pedal feeling in the Porsche is awesome, the best I've ever experienced so it's a WAY easier to modulate the braking force even with my left foot because the brake pedal has a nice progressive feel/resistance to it. One thing that I found out with LFB is how much more difficult it is to perform with the over-assisted brakes from the majority of modern cars;

2. LFB is useful to help a mid-engine rwd car such as the Cayman to rotate slightly on moderate speed corners to avoid understeering when carrying too much speed into the corner while keeping the power up with pedal overlap.


Drifting with a 1M is an entirely different story, though!

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Advevo

2. How do you initiate such a long drift like those shown in your 1M's vid?

Because it s a turbo i mostly have 5% throttle before i start the drift so turbo lag is at a minimum. The most dangerous part is to start the drift. Especially with turbo with high NM. You end up going into a dougnut faster then a drift
You need to react fast with the steeringwheel when the power comes in. The rear diff is going to lock and the back will let go very hard. You need to react fast. Then you ease off throttle a little bit and steer the car with throttle.

So, it all comes down to how gentle you are on the throttle and to know when to let loose the steering wheel?

In which gear and at what speed were you drifting the 1M in that vid?

Originally Posted by Advevo

3. Would you do it the same way if the road wasn't so wet?

Yes it s the same way only you need to have even faster responses you get less time to react and the speed is even higher.

Are you saying that it's easier to drift and control it on the wet than in the dry even when you have so much low-end torque?

Aren't things less predictable on the wet?

Originally Posted by Advevo

4. Do you use LFB to 'catch' the car if the slide angle is too big or you just ease the throttle?

Both.

How do we know which one and when to use?

Originally Posted by Advevo

6. In what situation is there overlap between brake and throttle pedals action?

You can use it for

When you drift from a highspeed corner to a low speed corner.
Or when you go a little wide you ease over the brake padel to get nose more to the inside.
You can use to get the speed down in a drift. To use throttle and brake on same time.
When things go wrong you can react real fast to get as much speed out of the car before things go really wrong.

Are you saying that when you go a little wide by virtue of LFB you then ease off the brake pedal in order to get the nose closer to the inside of the corner?

Isn't it the other way around?