Slow start, slightly rough idle

[1mm2]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

Of course, if it is the HPFP I'll have to pay up.

I thought they were covered beyond the standard warranty no?

[CarJunkie]

Not for the 1M, engine code N54T, only for the N54 in 135, 335.

I am at the dealership now. They confirmed that I have extended limited warranty for injectors through 10 years or 120,000 miles. They will run diagnostics today. I am on the hook for $125 if it is not the injectors, but it is a risk I am willing to take.

[ayao]

Originally Posted by vocan

I thought they were covered beyond the standard warranty no?

There are a few things that 1M owners and other people with N54T engines (335is, Z4sDrive35is) miss out on: extended HPFP coverage and extended turbo wastegate rattle coverage. How this trend did not continue to include injectors I do not know.

However, I think there may be a California emissions clause in the owner's manual (for Cali vehicles only) which increases coverage to 7/70k in the event that a failed component (including HPFP and turbos!) leads to a failed smog test.

[CarJunkie]

No codes. Started normally for the tech, but it was warm. All of the injectors gave normal readings and pressure was normal. The are going to keep it overnight and recheck in the morning so it can be a true cold start.

[mrphil]

Is there some type of reference number for the injectors issue?

I have a slight rough idle, took it in to the dealership, the checked injectors,plugs, coils and was told all is fine

[nachob]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

No codes. Started normally for the tech, but it was warm. All of the injectors gave normal readings and pressure was normal. The are going to keep it overnight and recheck in the morning so it can be a true cold start.

Any updates?

[CarJunkie]

Just got the car back from the dealer. Fuel pressure was within spec, all injectors passed testing both when warm and on cold start, and they did a choke test that apparently makes it UNLIKELY that there is enough carbon buildup in the intake to cause problems. On the carbon buildup, there is no way to be sure without doing a scope. According to my SA our cars (unlike others including 3-series) require that the intake manifold be removed for the inspection, so they didn't recommend doing it without justification.

It remains possible that the issue is a bad tank of gas, but I have not used a new station to fill up lately. The Chevron I normally use has never given me any problems.

I am going to keep my appointment with the independent shop for next week and have them inspect the valves, walnut blast as necessary, and install my ER charge. I just called them and they have a very small fiber optic scope and can usually inspect the valves through a sensor port. If they need to walnut blast, they would need to remove the manifold. They also use a chemical treatment from BG if the buildup is mild, which would usually can also be done through a sensor port.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

Just got the car back from the dealer. Fuel pressure was within spec, all injectors passed testing both when warm and on cold start, and they did a choke test that apparently makes it UNLIKELY that there is enough carbon buildup in the intake to cause problems. On the carbon buildup, there is no way to be sure without doing a scope. According to my SA our cars (unlike others including 3-series) require that the intake manifold be removed for the inspection, so they didn't recommend doing it without justification.

It remains possible that the issue is a bad tank of gas, but I have not used a new station to fill up lately. The Chevron I normally use has never given me any problems.

I am going to keep my appointment with the independent shop for next week and have them inspect the valves, walnut blast as necessary, and install my ER charge. I just called them and they have a very small fiber optic scope and can usually inspect the valves through a sensor port. If they need to walnut blast, they would need to remove the manifold. They also use a chemical treatment from BG if the buildup is mild, which would usually can also be done through a sensor port.

Thanks for the update! Let us know if walnut thing makes a difference!

[1mm2]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

Just got the car back from the dealer. Fuel pressure was within spec, all injectors passed testing both when warm and on cold start, and they did a choke test that apparently makes it UNLIKELY that there is enough carbon buildup in the intake to cause problems. On the carbon buildup, there is no way to be sure without doing a scope. According to my SA our cars (unlike others including 3-series) require that the intake manifold be removed for the inspection, so they didn't recommend doing it without justification.

It remains possible that the issue is a bad tank of gas, but I have not used a new station to fill up lately. The Chevron I normally use has never given me any problems.

I am going to keep my appointment with the independent shop for next week and have them inspect the valves, walnut blast as necessary, and install my ER charge. I just called them and they have a very small fiber optic scope and can usually inspect the valves through a sensor port. If they need to walnut blast, they would need to remove the manifold. They also use a chemical treatment from BG if the buildup is mild, which would usually can also be done through a sensor port.

Thanks and good luck.

[CarJunkie]

So here is the update:

Valves were inspected with a boroscope and looked pretty good. He recommended a BG chemical clean with my next oil change. It was not bad enough to effect performance or require a walnut blast. I will be changing the oil myself soon, but will take the car back to the shop for a BG valve treatment in a month or two when I have the time. According to them, it is much easier to do that every 30-40k miles than to wait until there is enough buildup to require the walnuts.

Here is the odd part:
I had a full tank when the problem began. Before scheduling my trip to the dealer (before I realized that there may be a warranty) I had poured a bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner into the gas tank which was about 3/4 full and topped up the tank to full. I drove the car about 30 miles over the next two days. On the morning I took the car to the dealer, It started slightly better and reportedly started normally for the tech when he did a cold start the following morning.

It roared to life for me the day I dropped it off at the indy shop, basically back to normal after driving about 60 miles with the Techron treatment. Considering everything has checked out well (no codes, HPFP and injectors OK per dealer, valves minimally coked per indy shop) it may have just been a bad tank of gas, or some sludging in the system which has cleared up quickly.

[WP1]

Need help!

My car was misfiring on cylinder 5 (history short), the dealer is replacing all the injectors under the extended warranty.

BUT, the dealer is telling me that I MUST do the carbon blast at the same time since they are linked. Is that is a true fact, why is no cover? cost is over $1K

This was yesterday and I call BMW head quarter and build a case because if they are linked then why is not cover.

Can the dealer do only the injector and I have the carbon blast done else where?


Thanks,

[CarJunkie]

You should have the right to go elsewhere for the work you have to pay for. I had a BG valve treatment (its a chemical treatment, valves weren't bad enough to need walnut blast) at an independent shop and it cost $300. I believe they had quoted about $450 if they needed to do the walnut blast.

[CarJunkie]

UPDATE:
I have had the valves cleaned and definitely had some improvement after running a tank with Techron last fall. This spring, I have had a lot of "rich" smell when cold, have had 1 instance of a long crank, and the idle is rough. The the car does not run well when driving at low rpm's. I had a misfire on cylinder 5 a couple weeks ago that gave codes.

I just replaced my plugs and coils (updated Eldor coils). The plugs for cylinders 3, 5 and 6 looked pretty fouled. The plugs were new about 1 year ago, but were in the car when going through all of my tuning. I am pretty sure the coils (original, Bosch) were going caput. It idled perfectly when I started it up after the install. Looking forward to tomorrow morning's commute to see how it behaves when cold.

Question: I have a Schaben tool which should be able to reset the LVS adaptations, which is usually done when replacing coils. I kept getting the message that the operation could not be completed. Anyone know if the Cobb software interferes with this? Are there any issues with not resetting the LVS, which I assume would eventually adapt to the new coils?

[hot-j]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

Question: I have a Schaben tool which should be able to reset the LVS adaptations, which is usually done when replacing coils. I kept getting the message that the operation could not be completed. Anyone know if the Cobb software interferes with this? Are there any issues with not resetting the LVS, which I assume would eventually adapt to the new coils?

Not when swapping coils. They are plug and play... no coding required.

[CarJunkie]

I do believe it is recommended to reset the LVS when replacing coils.

I was able to do it after correcting the procedure. The on screen instructions from the Schwaben tool are a bit clunky. There is a notice when selecting "Reset LVS values" that says the engine must be running, so I was starting the engine before proceeding. That resulted in a message that the operation could not be completed.

It was successful when I started the procedure with the engine off/ignition on. It then prompted me to turn off the ignition, then prompted to start the engine, then I got a "reset successful" message.

Now to go drive!

[CarJunkie]

The car runs great once warm, but still doesn't like low rpm's when cold and the startup still isn't quite right. I suspect leaking injectors, since there isn't much else it could be. I stopped by the dealer yesterday (where they did testing on the injectors and fuel pumps about 1500 miles ago and all passed, tested when warm and again the next day when cold.) The SA said BMW absolutely will not replace the injectors unless they fail the test. I am hesitant to shell out cash for another hour of diagnostics, but I may eventually do just that.

I also have a pretty good indy shop. I may ask them to test and replace them, which would cost less, and then try my luck submitting the extended warranty reimbursement form to BMW. Has anyone had success with that???

For now, I am asking people who have the ability to monitor their lambda's to see if a new anomaly I am seeing is common or not . . . it may be evidence of leaking injectors, but probably not evidence that is admissible in BMW court. New thread on that topic:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1369327

[hot-j]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

I also have a pretty good indy shop. I may ask them to test and replace them, which would cost less, and then try my luck submitting the extended warranty reimbursement form to BMW. Has anyone had success with that???

I did exactly that. They will question your indys qualifications and require paperwork faxed back and forth a couple of times. A pita.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by hot-j

I did exactly that. They will question your indys qualifications and require paperwork faxed back and forth a couple of times. A pita.

Did your shop prove the injectors were leaking, or did they just replace them?

[hot-j]

Spark plugs/coils were replaced 30 days beforehand, car developed a few missfires, while investigating the issue found 4 fouled plugs/oil contamination with gasoline. It was the only possible explanation. Injectors were replaced and issue was resolved. Funny enough this happened 2 weeks prior to receiving letter of extending warranty.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by hot-j

Spark plugs/coils were replaced 30 days beforehand, car developed a few missfires, while investigating the issue found 4 fouled plugs/oil contamination with gasoline. It was the only possible explanation. Injectors were replaced and issue was resolved. Funny enough this happened 2 weeks prior to receiving letter of extending warranty.

Good to know, thanks!

[hot-j]

I should clarify. The plugs were fouled with gasoline. And the oil was contaminated with gasoline too. The way I wrote it about made it sound like the plugs were contaminated with oil.... they weren't.

[CarJunkie]

Update again:

I continue to have long cranks when the car has sat for 1-2 hours after running, now even after sitting all night about half the time. Its idles rough, and does not like to rev when cold. Sputters under load at low rpms when cold. It runs great when warmed up, but still feels like it skips a beat every second or so when idling.

I also noticed today that the estimated fuel consumption, which used to be accurate to 0.1MPG, is now off by 1.4MPG if I calculate it at time of fill-up. It is using more fuel than the computer thinks it is.

When monitoring AFR's on the Cobb, the lambda's never max out when coasting in gear, which they should do when fuel is cut off.

It has to be the injectors. Going to dealer next Monday to get them rechecked. If they won't replace them, I will have my indy shop do it and try to get reimbursed.