VO for sale in OR

[DCYT]

I am one of those guys cross shopping 1M and M2 .....

Other than 1M cars from BMW dealers going for mid 40's CDN (high 30's USD), all the private sales are asking for high 50s CDN (high 40s USD).

At this rate, I am going to wait it out to see what the M2 has to offer (on top of 4yrs of warranty and free maintenance worth about $6000 and getting to pop its cherry which is priceless)

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by DCYT

I am one of those guys cross shopping 1M and M2 .....

Other than 1M cars from BMW dealers going for mid 40's CDN (high 30's USD), all the private sales are asking for high 50s CDN (high 40s USD).

At this rate, I am going to wait it out to see what the M2 has to offer (on top of 4yrs of warranty and free maintenance worth about $6000 and getting to pop its cherry which is priceless)

lol...LINK?

i will buy a 2nd 1M for high-30Ks.....have never seen ANY, even salvaged cars, for that much....but i appreciate your effort to try and drive down the market.

[DCYT]

Here is one:

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/BMW/M/Lav...PO&orup=2_15_7

After conversion, it's $40k USD with only 43k miles.

There have been 3-4 sold at this price in the last 12 months since I've been tracking the Canadian prices.

Not downplaying but the reality in Canada.

BMW dealers are selling CPO cars at $45-50k CDN while private sales are selling at 55-60k

IEDEI, you going to make a 8 hour drive to Montreal to buy this car?

[champignon]

Originally Posted by DCYT

Here is one:

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/BMW/M/Lav...PO&orup=2_15_7

After conversion, it's $40k USD with only 43k miles.

There have been 3-4 sold at this price in the last 12 months since I've been tracking the Canadian prices.

Not downplaying but the reality in Canada.

BMW dealers are selling CPO cars at $45-50k CDN while private sales are selling at 55-60k

IEDEI, you going to make a 8 hour drive to Montreal to buy this car?

As I have posted before, I bought mine (VO with 26K Miles) 2.5 months ago for $47,500 USD ex Montreal. The dealer ended up eating about $4000 US on his costs, including US Duties, change of the cluster from km to miles, and shipping from NY State to the far West (Idaho), and these things were included in the price I paid. In addition he was wired US$, and would have had to pay to convert those to Canadian $, unless he chose to keep them in US currency, entailing additional cost probably around 1% or more.

Making allowances for the mileage difference, I'd say the two deals are relatively similar.

I have been watching these cars on Autotrader, ebay, and other sites including Craigslist. I'm not sure that a single one I have been watching has sold in the last 3 months.

So maybe there are a few sales here and there, but the ones you can follow on the public for sales sites in the USA, show high prices but few to no sales at those prices.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by DCYT

Here is one:

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/BMW/M/Lav...PO&orup=2_15_7

After conversion, it's $40k USD with only 43k miles.

There have been 3-4 sold at this price in the last 12 months since I've been tracking the Canadian prices.

Not downplaying but the reality in Canada.

BMW dealers are selling CPO cars at $45-50k CDN while private sales are selling at 55-60k

IEDEI, you going to make a 8 hour drive to Montreal to buy this car?

where is the mid-40s like you said? where is the CPO? I call BS. you can't find me one as they are not around.

look up the rest of Autotrader ads....they're all in the mid to upper 50s.

[DCYT]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

where is the mid-40s like you said? where is the CPO? I call BS. you can't find me one as they are not around.

look up the rest of Autotrader ads....they're all in the mid to upper 50s.

Do you read or know what the exchange rate is?

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by DCYT

Do you read or know what the exchange rate is?

lol Most Americans never travel out of the states and don't monitor currency rates, nor know the current strength of the USD.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by DCYT

Do you read or know what the exchange rate is?

yes I am well aware. nice diversion to try and get out of your exaggerations. the fact remains you have nowt to support your claims of low prices. You found the highest mileage 1M possible with no CPO and it's almost $50k CAD.

where are the '$45k CAD CPO'd 1Ms' that are so easily available according to you? They don't exist....except in your imagination!

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by DCYT

I am one of those guys cross shopping 1M and M2 .....

Other than 1M cars from BMW dealers going for mid 40's CDN (high 30's USD), all the private sales are asking for high 50s CDN (high 40s USD).

At this rate, I am going to wait it out to see what the M2 has to offer (on top of 4yrs of warranty and free maintenance worth about $6000 and getting to pop its cherry which is priceless)

This is almost certainly the right move.

Unless the M2 is a total dud- you're going to be looking at a fantastic car for similar money. The 1M has to really charm you (as it has me) for it to be a rational purchase at current prices.

On Canadian cars, importation pains aside, I suspect the basis may have to do with the fact that there are three times as many 1Ms per capita in Canada vs. the U.S. (which, coincidentally, is the largest market for M cars by a healthy margin).

I haven't done the homework- and I imagine most don't- but are there any future sale concerns with a Canadian car?

[Jet Mech]

Originally Posted by cSurf

This is almost certainly the right move.
I haven't done the homework- and I imagine most don't- but are there any future sale concerns with a Canadian car?

That's what I was thinking...a Canadian car might not be an easy sell to a collector in the future.

[DCYT]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

yes I am well aware. nice diversion to try and get out of your exaggerations. the fact remains you have nowt to support your claims of low prices. You found the highest mileage 1M possible with no CPO and it's almost $50k CAD.

where are the '$45k CAD CPO'd 1Ms' that are so easily available according to you? They don't exist....except in your imagination!

Here is the one I looked at in May that I turned down.

Price is in CDN as well the mileage is in KM and not MILES.

From BMW Ottawa, CPO'ed for $49995 CDN which works out to $41666 USD

I was able to negotiate this to $46k CDN.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by cSurf

I haven't done the homework- and I imagine most don't- but are there any future sale concerns with a Canadian car?

I think there might be IF the instrument cluster was not converted to miles from km, however I am not sure if you could even import and/or register the car in a US state without doing that first. Even if you COULD do that, I certainly would NOT do that.

My car, which is a VO former Canadian car, is now in Idaho. There were some hoops to jump through to get it registered, and being as my state is extremely anal about rules and regulations, I had to go so far as to produce the invoice from the Canadian BMW dealer who changed out the instrument cluster to read in miles, and to get a statement from the dealer that the mileage on the car is true and correct and that the cluster was changed out by a certified BMW technician. I was provided with a title from a US state, which the Canadian dealer obtained in the process of transferring the vehicle to me.

All of the above took 3 visits to the DMV, and multiple emails and phone calls to the Canadian dealer to resolve. In addition I needed to call BMW of NA several times to get the vehicle transferred over as a US vehicle in my name rather than as a Canadian vehicle.

The car itself differs in a couple of minor ways from most or all sold in the USA. Instead of the Tire pressure monitoring system with the sensors in each wheel (which I detest and which in my experience tends to malfunction much more often than it provides useful information) the car has the tire warning system used in Canada and most of the rest of the world which is external to the tires and wheels themselves. I count this as a plus. Note that some other imported cars sold in the USA have the same system without sensors in the wheels, including VW through at least the 2013 model year. The actual options configuration is also slightly different in that the car has essentially every option available EXCEPT for navigation, something that they called the "executive package," which I think was not sold in the US.

Otherwise the car is identical.

The only other difference is that even though the car still has almost 3 months of factory warranty left, the "maintenance package" does not transfer from Canada to the USA, so if the car needed an oil change or brakes or anything else covered by the maintenance package you would have to either take it back to Canada to get those services or pay for them yourself. Finally, I have been told that I probably can't get a US BMW extended warranty on the car, which I wouldn't do anyway since the car is not my DD.

I doubt that any of this would diminish the resale value of the car in the USA now that it has a US instrument cluster and the factory warranty is about run out anyway. The absence of navigation might reduce the resale price, but then there are many USA 1Ms that don't have navigation, either.

When it would come time to resell it would be a US car titled in a US state, with an instrument cluster in miles, being sold to someone else in the US, which should not present any additional problems.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by champignon

I think there might be IF the instrument cluster was not converted to miles from km, however I am not sure if you could even import and/or register the car in a US state without doing that first. Even if you COULD do that, I certainly would NOT do that.

My car, which is a VO former Canadian car, is now in Idaho. There were some hoops to jump through to get it registered, and being as my state is extremely anal about rules and regulations, I had to go so far as to produce the invoice from the Canadian BMW dealer who changed out the instrument cluster to read in miles, and to get a statement from the dealer that the mileage on the car is true and correct and that the cluster was changed out by a certified BMW technician. I was provided with a title from a US state, which the Canadian dealer obtained in the process of transferring the vehicle to me.

All of the above took 3 visits to the DMV, and multiple emails and phone calls to the Canadian dealer to resolve. In addition I needed to call BMW of NA several times to get the vehicle transferred over as a US vehicle in my name rather than as a Canadian vehicle.

The car itself differs in a couple of minor ways from most or all sold in the USA. Instead of the Tire pressure monitoring system with the sensors in each wheel (which I detest and which in my experience tends to malfunction much more often than it provides useful information) the car has the tire warning system used in Canada and most of the rest of the world which is external to the tires and wheels themselves. I count this as a plus. Note that some other imported cars sold in the USA have the same system without sensors in the wheels, including VW through at least the 2013 model year. The actual options configuration is also slightly different in that the car has essentially every option available EXCEPT for navigation, something that they called the "executive package," which I think was not sold in the US.

Otherwise the car is identical.

The only other difference is that even though the car still has almost 3 months of factory warranty left, the "maintenance package" does not transfer from Canada to the USA, so if the car needed an oil change or brakes or anything else covered by the maintenance package you would have to either take it back to Canada to get those services or pay for them yourself. Finally, I have been told that I probably can't get a US BMW extended warranty on the car, which I wouldn't do anyway since the car is not my DD.

I doubt that any of this would diminish the resale value of the car in the USA now that it has a US instrument cluster and the factory warranty is about run out anyway. The absence of navigation might reduce the resale price, but then there are many USA 1Ms that don't have navigation, either.

When it would come time to resell it would be a US car titled in a US state, with an instrument cluster in miles, being sold to someone else in the US, which should not present any additional problems.

Interesting- thanks for the info.

Absence of navigation is likely a plus for collectibility.

[frenzy757]

Was in a similar boat. Went with the 1m. I am not too fond of the M2 looks tbh...not sure why.

M2 will be faster, but 1m is special to me. Plus I am sure dealers are going to mark it up. So really I was estimating at least 60-65k for one if I wanted one immediately after options and all.

[COChris]

This is a deal at $49,900.

Am I missing something?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/BMW-1-Series-C....c100408.m2460

[champignon]

Originally Posted by COChris

This is a deal at $49,900.

Am I missing something?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/BMW-1-Series-C....c100408.m2460

Car was in an accident in July of 2012, however no details are given in the Carfax obtainable from the dealer's actual website (not on ebay).

Of some slight interest, they have been trying to sell this car since at least April. I know because I was considering both this car and the one I actually bought (ex-Montreal, Canada) at the same time. At the time this car was offered at, I believe, $52,900 OBO and the one I bought (with 6 or 7000 less miles on it) had been reduced to around $49,999 OBO, both simultaneously on ebay.

Given the time and effort of getting a car out of Canada, I first made an offer on this car; I believe I offered $48.5K or $49K. They responded saying that we were "too far apart" for them to counter and that they would not sell it for under $51,900. I made an offer of $45K on the Canadian car, they countered with $47.5 delivered to me in Idaho with a US miles Cluster on it, duties and transport paid, and I accepted. The rest is "history."

I did google reviews for this dealer in Chicago and what I could find was, shall we say, "mixed." I'm not sure how much stock to put into this being as online reviews for almost every 2nd hand car dealer out there are "mixed" at best, it seems like there are always dissatisfied former customers and they are the most likely to post online reviews.

Fast forward now to late July, 3 months later, and they still are trying to sell the car, have it on rolling ebay "buy it now OBO" listings, and the asking price is just a tiny bit above what I offered them 3 months ago. What does this mean?

I think it means at the least that you could probably buy it for around what I offered them 3 months ago, e.g. somewhere between $48 and $49K. It also means that LOTS of people have probably considered buying it, and for some reason no one has done so. Could it be that the car doesn't look as good in person as it does in the listing, and that people have inspected it and decided not to buy it? Can't know. Could it be that the actual resale market for 1M Coupes is thin, at any price approaching $50K and higher? Don't know.

What I do know is that this is the cheapest listed 1M with relatively low mileage in the USA that I know of, it has been the cheapest listed 1M for months, and for some reason it has not sold. Caveat Emptor!

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by champignon

Car was in an accident in July of 2012, however no details are given in the Carfax obtainable from the dealer's actual website (not on ebay).

Of some slight interest, they have been trying to sell this car since at least April. I know because I was considering both this car and the one I actually bought (ex-Montreal, Canada) at the same time. At the time this car was offered at, I believe, $52,900 OBO and the one I bought (with 6 or 7000 less miles on it) had been reduced to around $49,999 OBO, both simultaneously on ebay.

Given the time and effort of getting a car out of Canada, I first made an offer on this car; I believe I offered $48.5K or $49K. They responded saying that we were "too far apart" for them to counter and that they would not sell it for under $51,900. I made an offer of $45K on the Canadian car, they countered with $47.5 delivered to me in Idaho with a US miles Cluster on it, duties and transport paid, and I accepted. The rest is "history."

I did google reviews for this dealer in Chicago and what I could find was, shall we say, "mixed." I'm not sure how much stock to put into this being as online reviews for almost every 2nd hand car dealer out there are "mixed" at best, it seems like there are always dissatisfied former customers and they are the most likely to post online reviews.

Fast forward now to late July, 3 months later, and they still are trying to sell the car, have it on rolling ebay "buy it now OBO" listings, and the asking price is just a tiny bit above what I offered them 3 months ago. What does this mean?

I think it means at the least that you could probably buy it for around what I offered them 3 months ago, e.g. somewhere between $48 and $49K. It also means that LOTS of people have probably considered buying it, and for some reason no one has done so. Could it be that the car doesn't look as good in person as it does in the listing, and that people have inspected it and decided not to buy it? Can't know. Could it be that the actual resale market for 1M Coupes is thin, at any price approaching $50K and higher? Don't know.

What I do know is that this is the cheapest listed 1M with relatively low mileage in the USA that I know of, it has been the cheapest listed 1M for months, and for some reason it has not sold. Caveat Emptor!

there are lots of 1Ms selling for mid 50s all the way to upper 50s....they sell fairly quickly so you don't see them or remember them. The lower priced ones are often crashed like this one....and hence they don't sell.

It's also wise to remember this is a 'niche' car in low production numbers so often they need the "right owner" to come and buy it.

Ordinary people think "why would I spend $55k on a 4 year old $50k BMW with no warranty"?

1M buyers (like me) think "omg I need a 1M"

[champignon]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

The lower priced ones are often crashed like this one....and hence they don't sell.

"

Most of the time Carfax will give more information if the accident is significant, such information as where on the car the damage occurred, if the airbag(s) deployed, if the car needed to be towed away, etc.

My guess is that someone ran into this car causing minimal damage (or vice versa) however the driver of the car not at fault was obligated to get a police report in order to file an insurance claim.

A small fender bender without significant body damage or any frame damage hardly disqualifies a car from consideration.

My 1M had front bumper underspoiler damage from "curbing." Initially I had intended to get it repaired at a body shop however when I got under the car on a lift I saw that the damage was more than I had thought. Therefore, I "invested" $1100 in having the front bumper replaced and painted/matched at a body shop. A minor accident could easily have produced the same result, e.g. a replaced front bumper painted in a body shop.

Should that disqualify a car from being resold and result in a lower resale price? I don't think so, as the car now has a brand new bumper and is "better" than it was when I took delivery of the 3.5 year old car.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by champignon

Most of the time Carfax will give more information if the accident is significant, such information as where on the car the damage occurred, if the airbag(s) deployed, if the car needed to be towed away, etc.

My guess is that someone ran into this car causing minimal damage (or vice versa) however the driver of the car not at fault was obligated to get a police report in order to file an insurance claim.

A small fender bender without significant body damage or any frame damage hardly disqualifies a car from consideration.

My 1M had front bumper underspoiler damage from "curbing." Initially I had intended to get it repaired at a body shop however when I got under the car on a lift I saw that the damage was more than I had thought. Therefore, I "invested" $1100 in having the front bumper replaced and painted/matched at a body shop. A minor accident could easily have produced the same result, e.g. a replaced front bumper painted in a body shop.

Should that disqualify a car from being resold and result in a lower resale price? I don't think so, as the car now has a brand new bumper and is "better" than it was when I took delivery of the 3.5 year old car.

I think lack of info should drive a price down. Easy to speculate on the type of accident- both better or worse.

I'm wonder what happened to the Moss Motors 1M. That car was a steal (if it, indeed, did avoid flooding). It looked a little rough around the edges, but it had all maintenance and was straight (no accidents). They would have let it go for 48.5k.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by cSurf

I think lack of info should drive a price down. Easy to speculate on the type of accident- both better or worse.

I'm wonder what happened to the Moss Motors 1M. That car was a steal (if it, indeed, did avoid flooding). It looked a little rough around the edges, but it had all maintenance and was straight (no accidents). They would have let it go for 48.5k.

A car with significant "question marks" is probably not the best for a long distance purchase, sight unseen. This doesn't mean that if you went out there and had it inspected that you should rule it out.

As to the Chicago car, I have now been told that this dealer has had it on the lot for 2 years, and that it has gone through this time outdoors, unprotected from the weather, probably not very good for its finish, its seals, or some other parts.

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by champignon

This will be true if the people who are looking at used 1Ms are the same sorts of people looking at new M2s. At this point, the answer is unknowable.

Past experience with limited production BMWs that become collectible would suggest that the 1M probably cannot retain ~100% of its original MSRP as the cars age and accumulate miles.

To take but one example, the Z3M Coupe, of which only around 3000 were made and sold into the US market, has become a cult car. I even own one, plus another of its weaker sister, the Z3 Coupe.

Originally, the Z3M Coupe went for around $40,000 in (year) 2000 dollars. I don't know the exact purchasing power of the 2000 dollar vs. the 2015 dollar, but I think it is safe to say that a $40K car in 2000 would likely be a $60K or $65K car in 2015.

Forgetting about a few garage queen cars with hardly any miles at all, and concentrating on the S52 engine Z3M Coupes that represented about 75% of the total production, a good Z3M Coupe with 50,000 miles give or take 10K miles, will sell for $25 to $30K today.

So, after 15 years you are left with up to maybe 50% of the purchasing power on resale of your very lightly used Z3M Coupe.

While I think it is possible that the 1M will do better than this, I'd be surprised if it did very much better.

$40k IN 2000 is about $56K in 2015. close

[champignon]

Originally Posted by SoCalDave

$40k IN 2000 is about $56K in 2015. close

Of course the real number would be inflation as it effects automobiles, not the CPI in general. And given all the changes in cars such as mandated safety equipment, comparisons would be very much apples to oranges in any event.