BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-26-2016, 12:33 AM   #23
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanDavies View Post
Having had an AA tune earlier this season and having just moved over to an Epic Motorsports tune, the *only* thing the AA tune has going for it over epic is a bunch of marketing fluff.

I got excellent customer service, complete honesty, a product that was exactly as promised, and better power from Epic. I haven't had any experience / know anyone who has with BPC, but I couldn't hold an opinion more strongly between Epic / AA....
'My butt dyno says!'

Bold claims, but of course no dyno verification. I always er on the side with the most information provided, and AA is far and away the leader on that front. You would be the ONLY person I've see with this tune thus far, so it's hard to establish a trend on one person's experience.

Back in my M52 days, one guy got an Epic Tune over the canned Shark Injector tune and made literally nothing. On the M3s, I've seen that they spent a lot of time perfecting their tune, but again, with actual empirical evidence, it's really heresy.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2016, 07:01 AM   #24
RyanDavies
Lieutenant
63
Rep
448
Posts

Drives: 2012 128i MSport
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (2)

The Conti Challenge cars ran Epic tunes before moving to Bosch Motorsports ECUs.

Bold assumptions being made on your part. I've got no interest in sharing my dyno numbers publicly (it's a competition car), but suffice to say the Epic tune also makes more power than the AA, especially down low, and at the top of its rev range.

It also resolved a throttle hang on lift that every single competition vehicle I'm aware of running an AA tune on an MSV80 deals with. Same with absurd throttle mapping (80% throttle at 20% pedal pressure, data logged) That alone was worth the money spent.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2016, 09:02 AM   #25
Ryan13
Private First Class
73
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: Z4MC, Z4MR, M3, E36, M2, 535
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Leesburg, VA

iTrader: (0)

I can't say either way, but certainly appreciate the discussion. I'm looking to benefit from your collective experiences.

Presume AA is the header to get? Seems to be a fair price. For the tune, I certainly don't want to deal with a CEL because of O2 sensors or CATs. I've read about the throttle lag...would love to not have that.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2016, 09:56 AM   #26
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanDavies View Post
The Conti Challenge cars ran Epic tunes before moving to Bosch Motorsports ECUs.

Bold assumptions being made on your part. I've got no interest in sharing my dyno numbers publicly (it's a competition car), but suffice to say the Epic tune also makes more power than the AA, especially down low, and at the top of its rev range.

It also resolved a throttle hang on lift that every single competition vehicle I'm aware of running an AA tune on an MSV80 deals with. Same with absurd throttle mapping (80% throttle at 20% pedal pressure, data logged) That alone was worth the money spent.
'The Epic tune makes more power than X, but I can't/won't prove it'

I don't care what they run, without numbers you're telling people to 'trust you' isn't cutting it when the most powerful cars are running BCP or AA tunes. It's a reoccurring theme with you:

- Make a bold claim.
- Never substantiate it
- Have a condescending* attitude when speaking to others on the matter, as if you have all the answers already.

Epic made tunes for the Spec E46s, but when a member bought their tune for the M52tu he netted 3whp at peak, and zero additional peak torque, far below the other options offered. I'll gladly link that to anyone who wants to know.

This isn't a dig at Epic, it's just me allowing people to have access to information to make an educated purchase.

Last edited by Taskmaster; 04-29-2016 at 11:18 AM..
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2016, 10:18 AM   #27
AlexR6
Private
AlexR6's Avatar
Italy
20
Rep
79
Posts

Drives: BMW E82 125i
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Italy

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanDavies View Post
I've got no interest in sharing my dyno numbers publicly (it's a competition car),
128i with stock engine ECU cannot be called "a competition car"... and if you want to do it, there is nothing to keep secret because you are not going to get more than 280 hp at the flywheel with full exhaust+tune....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanDavies View Post
It also resolved a throttle hang on lift that every single competition vehicle I'm aware of running an AA tune on an MSV80 deals with. Same with absurd throttle mapping (80% throttle at 20% pedal pressure, data logged) That alone was worth the money spent.
I have Evolve tune (and stock headers) and got no absurde throttle pedal mapping and no throttle hang on lift (I have it but only with clutch pedal pressed). My dyno test output was 260 hp at the flywheel. On the same bench a stock 130i has about 252 hp. So.... nothing special and nothing for competition use... but in any case a good result
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2016, 01:08 PM   #28
RyanDavies
Lieutenant
63
Rep
448
Posts

Drives: 2012 128i MSport
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexR6 View Post
128i with stock engine ECU cannot be called "a competition car"... and if you want to do it, there is nothing to keep secret because you are not going to get more than 280 hp at the flywheel with full exhaust+tune....



I have Evolve tune (and stock headers) and got no absurde throttle pedal mapping and no throttle hang on lift (I have it but only with clutch pedal pressed). My dyno test output was 260 hp at the flywheel. On the same bench a stock 130i has about 252 hp. So.... nothing special and nothing for competition use... but in any case a good result
Is that so? A 128 won the 2015 STX ProSolo Finale / Overall championship last year. Both my car and that car are competition-only vehicles. We're restricted by ruleset to stock ECU....

Why is flywheel output relevant? FWIW, I'm significantly above 252 flywheel, but less than 280. FWIW, I think 280 flywheel is perfectly reasonable for a full-tilt build on the stock ECU, without ruleset. I'd estimate based on my numbers, and those I've seen, that a 3-Stage manifold, 3-in exhaust, tune, intake, and custom header (the off-the-shelf options are not very well optimized) would get there. Reducing flywheel / clutch mass (that's illegal for my ruleset, along with the 3-stage manifold on an N52) would also make a substantial difference in drivetrain loss.

I'm hardly being condescending (I think that's the word Axiom meant to use, although an assumption that I haven't spent any time on the dyno, or testing parts combinations is pretty condescending). Given that the folks competing at the top level of the sport spend tens of thousands of dollars a year to do so, I don't have a lot of interest in quantifying or nullifying any advantages I've got above the competition to satisfy forum junkies. Little to gain, a lot to lose.

I had an AA tune on the car. I switched from Active to Epic (and spent the money to do so). The difference is night and day, and repeatable. My Active tune was "the best they could do for me", and the Epic tune is still being farther optimized, a few hours on the dyno will improve it more.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2016, 02:14 PM   #29
Ryan13
Private First Class
73
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: Z4MC, Z4MR, M3, E36, M2, 535
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Leesburg, VA

iTrader: (0)

4-clutch differential with 3.64 gears on the way from Diffsonline.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2016, 02:52 PM   #30
chris82
Brigadier General
chris82's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
3,856
Posts

Drives: 128i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NY NY

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2009 BMW 128i  [9.80]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanDavies View Post
The Conti Challenge cars ran Epic tunes before moving to Bosch Motorsports ECUs.

Bold assumptions being made on your part. I've got no interest in sharing my dyno numbers publicly (it's a competition car), but suffice to say the Epic tune also makes more power than the AA, especially down low, and at the top of its rev range.

It also resolved a throttle hang on lift that every single competition vehicle I'm aware of running an AA tune on an MSV80 deals with. Same with absurd throttle mapping (80% throttle at 20% pedal pressure, data logged) That alone was worth the money spent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexR6 View Post
128i with stock engine ECU cannot be called "a competition car"... and if you want to do it, there is nothing to keep secret because you are not going to get more than 280 hp at the flywheel with full exhaust+tune....
Yea, um, I don't think anybody will find your numbers (or care for that matter). After all, this is the 1addicts NA section, about 5 people come in here a day...
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2016, 04:36 PM   #31
RyanDavies
Lieutenant
63
Rep
448
Posts

Drives: 2012 128i MSport
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (2)

Given that I've had plenty of competitors point out other things about my build I've posted on about here (non 1-series owners, largely), I'll pretty openly disagree with that.

I'll see myself out, I'm merely attempting to help folks as best I reasonably can.

Last edited by RyanDavies; 04-26-2016 at 04:47 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2016, 06:07 PM   #32
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanDavies View Post
Is that so? A 128 won the 2015 STX ProSolo Finale / Overall championship last year. Both my car and that car are competition-only vehicles. We're restricted by ruleset to stock ECU....

Why is flywheel output relevant? FWIW, I'm significantly above 252 flywheel, but less than 280. FWIW, I think 280 flywheel is perfectly reasonable for a full-tilt build on the stock ECU, without ruleset. I'd estimate based on my numbers, and those I've seen, that a 3-Stage manifold, 3-in exhaust, tune, intake, and custom header (the off-the-shelf options are not very well optimized) would get there. Reducing flywheel / clutch mass (that's illegal for my ruleset, along with the 3-stage manifold on an N52) would also make a substantial difference in drivetrain loss.

I'm hardly being condescending (I think that's the word Axiom meant to use, although an assumption that I haven't spent any time on the dyno, or testing parts combinations is pretty condescending). Given that the folks competing at the top level of the sport spend tens of thousands of dollars a year to do so, I don't have a lot of interest in quantifying or nullifying any advantages I've got above the competition to satisfy forum junkies. Little to gain, a lot to lose.

I had an AA tune on the car. I switched from Active to Epic (and spent the money to do so). The difference is night and day, and repeatable. My Active tune was "the best they could do for me", and the Epic tune is still being farther optimized, a few hours on the dyno will improve it more.
Trust me dude, you haven't spent as much time on the dyno as I have, and even then, how much power are we talking, what mods?

OP, my numbers with OE tuning (not recommended)
19whp/15wtq gains over stock with intake manifold, intake and tune


AA's numbers, essentially the same modifications:


+26whp/32wtq

Here is another active powered car



Quote:
The Red and Blue lines correspond to Before and After, as you can see the broken DISA valve was a big hindrance to not only the performance but efficiency of the motor too.
Once repaired, a custom tune (Green Line) in cooperation with Active Autowerke was installed to take full advantage and netted us with some very healthy results
And for BPC

Remember that high RPM drop off on N52k cars? They corrected that as well.




ESS's tune - they don't have a header specific one

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1187652


Does this mean that AA or BPC produce the MOST power all the time? No, but the results are easily verifiable and can be referenced and compared against everyone else on the forum.

Or you can just trust the other guy whose answer amounts to "just take my word for it"
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2016, 07:22 AM   #33
Kgolf31
Brigadier General
Kgolf31's Avatar
459
Rep
4,531
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC, 2012 128i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (4)

Seems like I still have that issue...(I attached my snapshot).

Look guys, Ryan isn't a typical forum troll. I know him personally and he (as well as me) has bent over backwards with trying to figure out the best tune with the best gains.

STX Ruleset (which we are HELD to, consists of the following modifications).

Stock ECU
No Manifold Change
CAI/Headers allowed
Custom Exhaust allowed, must use a 100 cell in OE location.
Tune.

With that being said, I am okay with AA results I currently have, I would like more.

I am continuing with getting another tune from AA to incorporate my 3" exhaust build, along with more aggressive throttle mapping (to eliminate this stupid throttle hang), and an aggressive RPM limiter.

You can see in the picture my RPM limiter is currently configured as a soft limiter, you can see how the HP levels out til redline.

I will privately share my results with Ryan, and he will share his with mine. As fellow competitors with the same car, I trust him with my information, and vice versa.

And what Ryan says is true, we throw stupid money at our cars to make them the top of the top. Hell, I have close to $700 in 3 exhaust pieces, not including Fab work.


Also, people calling the 128i on a stock ECU not competitive...where should I post all my trophy's from last year?
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2016, 08:32 AM   #34
AlexR6
Private
AlexR6's Avatar
Italy
20
Rep
79
Posts

Drives: BMW E82 125i
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Italy

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
Also, people calling the 128i on a stock ECU not competitive...where should I post all my trophy's from last year?
You can also race on a stock car... is that a competition car? Well, it seems so because you are using it in a competition... so it's my mistake because I read it as "pro race car".

I also won some trophies in amateur motorbike racing but that does not mean my bike was a competition bike, it was only a track-day motorbike and had no problem in sharing with other guys my bike spec
Appreciate 1
      04-27-2016, 12:55 PM   #35
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
Seems like I still have that issue...(I attached my snapshot).
That's the DISA closing for a 4th stage, I asked Bob to bump it up higher and see what happens.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=105

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1206386&page=6


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
Look guys, Ryan isn't a typical forum troll. I know him personally and he (as well as me) has bent over backwards with trying to figure out the best tune with the best gains.
Understood, I'm not actively conspiring to make anyone fail, but if someone didn't actively have their head up their ass in EVERY SINGLE THREAD, maybe they could learn something. Or not, we know he already knows everything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post

STX Ruleset (which we are HELD to, consists of the following modifications).

Stock ECU
No Manifold Change
CAI/Headers allowed
Custom Exhaust allowed, must use a 100 cell in OE location.
Tune.

With that being said, I am okay with AA results I currently have, I would like more.
Well aware of all of that. But the ruleset allows you to move the cats within 6" of the stock location.

So you plan involved moving to a single exhaust with a 100cell high flow cat, I know because we actually talked about this. MY only suggestion was to place that merger as far back as you could BEFORE the Cat, which spawned a discussion of him talking down to everyone on "well race teams do things this way."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
I am continuing with getting another tune from AA to incorporate my 3" exhaust build, along with more aggressive throttle mapping (to eliminate this stupid throttle hang), and an aggressive RPM limiter.

You can see in the picture my RPM limiter is currently configured as a soft limiter, you can see how the HP levels out til redline.
I already told you what the issue is, having them bump the redline (to something like 7200rpm) will not change that DISA hump, you have to ask them to move the DISA transition itself. WHY this wasn't done by any tuner in the first place, I don't know. It's something I noticed on all the graphs, not just AA and BPC.

Also, never experienced this throttle hang you're speaking of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
I will privately share my results with Ryan, and he will share his with mine. As fellow competitors with the same car, I trust him with my information, and vice versa.
As opposed to people who aren't competing with you, and have the same car? Obviously your choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
And what Ryan says is true, we throw stupid money at our cars to make them the top of the top. Hell, I have close to $700 in 3 exhaust pieces, not including Fab work.
I don't doubt that you have spent a considerable sum of money, and I don't think anyone assumes you're doing it to be slower. I know people who have quadrupled what you have both spent - COMBINED on this car. But throwing money at it, doesn't mean you have the "right answer"

Anyhow, I guess you guys where so worried about defending the money spent and each other, you missed some gems I dropped for you:

Quote:
Does this mean that AA or BPC produce the MOST power all the time? No...
I actually know they don't. I believe (and I'll have a hard time back this up) that AA's off the shelf header tune is essentially a CEL delete and doesn't really include cam timing changes, or removal of things like the Cat overheat protection (as seen on one of your graphs I believe) simply put, it's good off the shelf, but there is definitely room for improvement:



I'm pretty sure this is a comparison between the off the shelf tune (manifold only?) and the dyno tune (from AA)

When I inquired about the actual tune itself, they said they don't stock their dynotune files, so I don't think customers will be getting this one.

And based on the date of the dyno ( and the thread it came from) It predates the AA headers, and might have been the first HEADER tuned car they did in person (vs remotely)

Anyhow, this is what they SAY they offer with the off the shelf tune:



I'm still skeptical, but I've seen a few 240whp+ around the forums now. It's hard to argue with a company that did put down the most power and torque of any tuner thus far.
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2016, 01:42 PM   #36
Kgolf31
Brigadier General
Kgolf31's Avatar
459
Rep
4,531
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC, 2012 128i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (4)

See, didn't know anything about a 4th Stage. I'll talk to Karl about tuning this further. There are multiple times where this was an issue for me. Thank you.



Anyways, for a N51, these are impressive numbers. I think there can be more tweaking though

PS - Just like Ryan mentioned earlier...plenty of Non-128i owners have discovered our public threads on our builds. There are some things that should just be kept secret

As for the throttle hang, watch the video thru the finish and coasting to the start...I'm completely off the throttle but my OBDII is still picking up throttle input.

Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2016, 01:52 PM   #37
AlexR6
Private
AlexR6's Avatar
Italy
20
Rep
79
Posts

Drives: BMW E82 125i
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Italy

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
As for the throttle hang, watch the video thru the finish and coasting to the start...I'm completely off the throttle but my OBDII is still picking up throttle input.

One question, do you really feel car pushing or did you find out this issue by looking at data from OBD?
I ask you this because a throttle position different from 0 doesn't necessarily means that the car is accelerating. It can be done for different reasons, e.g. throttle partially open but no fuel injection for reducing engine brake or to have a faster pedal response if you change your mind and press the gas pedal again.

Honestly when I lift off the gas or brake hard but don't press the clutch pedal, I don't feel any autonomous acceleration by the engine. Instead if I brake hard and immediately press the clutch pedal I can see engine rpms stop for 1 second at 2500/3000 rpms like the engine is accelerating.
Appreciate 1
      04-27-2016, 01:55 PM   #38
Kgolf31
Brigadier General
Kgolf31's Avatar
459
Rep
4,531
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC, 2012 128i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexR6 View Post
One question, do you really feel car pushing or did you find out this issue by looking at data from OBD?
I ask you this because a throttle position different from 0 doesn't necessarily means that the car is accelerating. It can be done for different reasons, e.g. throttle partially open but no fuel injection for reducing engine brake or to have a faster pedal response if you change your mind and press the gas pedal again.

Honestly when I lift off the gas or brake hard but don't press the clutch pedal, I don't feel any autonomous acceleration by the engine. Instead if I brake hard and immediately press the clutch pedal I can see engine rpms stop for 1 second at 2500/3000 rpms like the engine is accelerating.
There is push, I just try and drive around it.

It's very easy to notice when you drive a car without it. My Z4M does not have this issue. When you lift off the throttle you get instant engine braking with the accompanying engine note (and exhaust pop).

When you do the same in the 128i, there is no exhaust pop and there is a very easily identifiable 1-2 second delay before you get any exhaust drone on deceleration...There is never an exhaust pop because you're still technically on throttle.
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2016, 02:16 PM   #39
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Well, I'm not asking for any trade secrets, just trying to make sure people get the most for their dollar.
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2016, 02:42 PM   #40
Suprgnat
Слава Украине!
Suprgnat's Avatar
Ukraine
2281
Rep
2,427
Posts

Drives: 2013 128i LMB 6MT ZMP Slicktop
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2013 128i  [9.58]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan13 View Post
I've been pouring over the threads for the last month or so...the first big decision was to go 128 or 135. Picked up a 2009 128 manual earlier this week after working thru all the different options. The car is going to be a track car for my wife...I have a couple ZMs with Z4MC being the track car for myself.

The 128 is a non-sport version, so it doesn't have all the suspension bits. But I got a smoking deal on the car, so putting money into won't be painful. On to the upgrade list.

First the maintenance items...gaskets for the Oil Filter Housing, Oil Pan, and Valve Cover. The OFHG is definitely leaking, I'm changing all the others as insurance. The other items are standard fair...fluids for brake, coolant, transmission, power steering, air and cabin filters.

For suspension, I went with the ST-XTA coil overs. Added front and rear sway bars from ECS (28mm front, 15mm rear) along with HD control arms in the rear (non-sport has no rear bar, so had to add all the bits). M3 subframe bushings, M3 differential bushing, RE transmission mounts. Haven't picked a motor mount yet, but will probably just stay stock or grab the 335is passenger side mount.

For brakes, I just kept the rotors and added cool-stops. I can't see a real need to upgrade yet, but let's see how she works them on the track.

I'm still on the fence about which LSD. Talked with Performance Gearing and MFactory, just haven't landed on final.

Not doing exhaust, headers, or engine mods at this point. Seems like a lot of cash for so little return. It's her car that she will probably street from time to time, I can't see her liking extra volume for the sake of volume.

I was all set to add Msport Seats from a seller in the classifieds section, but they were black, she only wants tan. Still searching, but it may be black ones after he first track day in the standard seats.

The wheels are stock 17x7...I'm planning to go square with 225/45 Continential ExtremeContact DW. Can pick them up from Tire Rack for $115 per tire, seems cost effective for a tire.

Am I missing anything? Change anything??
Welcome to the 1addicts forum!
__________________
Inertia is the enemy!
My car's photo history: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1570551
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2016, 02:44 PM   #41
Ryan13
Private First Class
73
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: Z4MC, Z4MR, M3, E36, M2, 535
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Leesburg, VA

iTrader: (0)

Really learning a great deal from the discussion. I decided to go with AA since I'm getting the headers from them -and- their new exhaust!!! Yes, I'm now the test mule for their exhaust. Also means by default, I'm getting their tune. I don't want any CELs and I want to drive the car on the street some of the time.

I asked them about the throttle hang discussion, here is what he said..."guys are using an N54 manifold and giving up a lot of low end to get top end...that causes some issues". I'm not knowledgeable enough to debate the subject, so not sure if he was accurate in his description of WHY the throttle hang is occurring.

Anyhow, the car is pretty much stripped on the rack, parts going on now. Exhaust and headers will be here next week. AA states it will be a little more aggressive than the BPE, we'll see. He stated another 7-10hp from the exhaust. Will report back.
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2016, 04:07 PM   #42
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Not to make a AA vs BPC thread, but I suggest you talk with BPC about the N54 manifold with Alfa N, they seemed like they were the ones who pioneered the swap and tuning, and have the numbers to back it up.
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2016, 06:55 PM   #43
Fume
First Lieutenant
52
Rep
374
Posts

Drives: '19 Porsche 718 Cayman GTS
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan13 View Post
Really learning a great deal from the discussion. I decided to go with AA since I'm getting the headers from them -and- their new exhaust!!! Yes, I'm now the test mule for their exhaust. Also means by default, I'm getting their tune. I don't want any CELs and I want to drive the car on the street some of the time.

I asked them about the throttle hang discussion, here is what he said..."guys are using an N54 manifold and giving up a lot of low end to get top end...that causes some issues". I'm not knowledgeable enough to debate the subject, so not sure if he was accurate in his description of WHY the throttle hang is occurring.

Anyhow, the car is pretty much stripped on the rack, parts going on now. Exhaust and headers will be here next week. AA states it will be a little more aggressive than the BPE, we'll see. He stated another 7-10hp from the exhaust. Will report back.
Wait, they're still working on that new axle back exhaust for the 128i? I remember AA had a post about it a while ago, even had a video of it, but then had no new news for almost a year or something. Or is it another new exhaust that's supposed to work well with their headers?
__________________

New Car: 2019 Porsche 718 Cayman GTS | Stock for now
Old Car: 2013 BMW 128i | 6MT | BMW Performance Grills | CDV Delete | SSK | Performance Exhaust | M3 RSFB | TCKR DA

Appreciate 0
      04-27-2016, 07:17 PM   #44
RyanDavies
Lieutenant
63
Rep
448
Posts

Drives: 2012 128i MSport
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (2)

The throttle hang is something in the stock and AA tune, fwiw. It's for emissions purposes (lots of unburned hydrocarbons slamming throttle plate shut directly from WOT.

They'll deny it happens, and claim that nobody else has the issue. I could see it being hard to notice on the street, but it is a huge bear (along with the brake pretensioning) on corner entry. It affects the balance of the car significantly, and doesn't allow as much consistent front weight transfer, reducing grip and making it harder to drive. I would happily have traded 10whp to have that singular issue resolved. Ditto for the non-linear throttle. Having logged both tunes throttle position calibration, the AA tune would give over 80% of throttle to the motor with <25% pedal travel. Makes for a "faster" feeling car on tip-in, but much harder to modulate on exit.

The stock rear muffler is a gigantic bottleneck, as is the resonator. Should open up a large bit of power.

FWIW, I did look into the BPC Alpha-N tuning, but there's no way for Kyle or I to do it legally under our current rule set.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST