Suspension upgrade - what else while is up?

[Gangplank]

Cross positing to see if anyone has any input...

I'm getting ready to upgrade my M-sport struts & shocks to coilovers. They have 56k miles on them and about due. Its always intereseting to me when people say the stock suspension is soft. I find it is soft w/ roll side to side but over damped and jarring when hitting square edge bumps (i.e. over dampened on the high speed dampening). Even with non-runflats it is too harsh.

I'm going to replace them w/ coilovers next weekend.

I've got new coilover shocks
+ swift springs that we're recommended by Harold at HPA shop.
++ new BMW top hats
++ New Monroe rear upper strut mounts to replace the stock rear upper mounts.

What else should I replace while I've got things apart? I already have the front M3 control arms installed. But are there any other rubber parts that should be replaced at about 60k on the suspension when it's apart?

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[elitesales305]

I will be keeping a close eye on this venture your on.. as I will be in the same boat in about 10k

[Gray_Panther]

How is the suspension up at 56k miles?

[chris_flies]

You could upgrade your bushings to poly units, but that'll probably shoot NVH levels through the roof. I'd really recommend some Dinan camber plates, the price is extremely reasonable (for a Dinan product) and they just completely change the character of the car's handling. It's much more eager, and has a much reduced tendency to understeer.

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by Gray_Panther

How is the suspension up at 56k miles?

My experience with shocks from driving various types of cars, trucks and more specifically racing motorcycles is that non-serviceable shocks have a life span. It is not set in stone but between 50k - 60k on a set of stock shocks you can feel the difference. The fluid and seals break down over time from heat and friction. All oils wear out and shocks and shock oil are no different. (Even Billy's lifetime shocks will wear over time if you put them on a shock dyno).

Stock shocks are NOT a lifetime wear item. So my personal preference is to replace shocks at around 60k in my own cars. If you drive & expect a level of performance then you can feel the difference between a new shock and one at 60k. Personally mine are due. If you wan to buy them from me and reuse them I'll gladly sell them at a reasonable price:

Originally Posted by chris_flies

You could upgrade your bushings to poly units, but that'll probably shoot NVH levels through the roof. I'd really recommend some Dinan camber plates, the price is extremely reasonable (for a Dinan product) and they just completely change the character of the car's handling. It's much more eager, and has a much reduced tendency to understeer.

Definitely not going to polly units. I would describe the stock BMW 135i N55 ride as harsh as it is now, so I'm not looking to increase it. I have the M3 front upper and lower control arms. I went with what I feel are top of the line shocks and springs. I had considered a set of Dinan camber plates. After putting on the M3 control arms I'm at -1.4 camber right now. This is a DD car but I am planning to track it at some point in the next few years. At that point I'll probably plan to refresh and add the Dinan plates.

[desertman123]

Following this too. I saw what we should replace if we're putting new shocks in, but I'm interested in see what we DON'T need if we're going with coilovers. I'm looking to get some soon(tm).

[swagon]

BMW has a whole suspension refresh package. Not sure what exactly is in it now, it's in the ETK. Might be worth checking it out. It's what I used on the 3er at 60k miles.

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by desertman123

Following this too. I saw what we should replace if we're putting new shocks in, but I'm interested in see what we DON'T need if we're going with coilovers. I'm looking to get some soon(tm).

I think coil overs simply bolt-in, since they need special spring hats, and probably want to use their own hardware. I remember seeing that someone makes coilover-specific adjustable camber plates for varying spring sizes (OE, 2.5", etc.) that allow for something crazy like -3.5 degrees with M3 arms!

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by swagon

BMW has a whole suspension refresh package. Not sure what exactly is in it now, it's in the ETK. Might be worth checking it out. It's what I used on the 3er at 60k miles.

I looked at the refresh kit on ECS they have two. One that is BMW and one assembled from aftermarket items (look to be the same parts). I already picked up a set of front BMW top hats and rear upper shock mounts (Strut Mate). Other than that the parts mostly look to be re-usable bots and washers... Any specific rubber parts that I need to replace? On the shock I am using the the bumpstops and dustshields are built in and the BMW stuff is not reused.

Originally Posted by chris_flies

I think coil overs simply bolt-in, since they need special spring hats, and probably want to use their own hardware.

In this case yes they bolt-in and reuse the BMW top hats.

[Havocsteve]

Anyone running with the B12 kit from Bilstien? It's a slight drop about 50mm but comes with everything. I'm starting to get the dreaded noise when going over a bump so I'm in for new shocks soon.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

I looked at the refresh kit on ECS they have two. One that is BMW and one assembled from aftermarket items (look to be the same parts). I already picked up a set of front BMW top hats and rear upper shock mounts (Strut Mate). Other than that the parts mostly look to be re-usable bots and washers... Any specific rubber parts that I need to replace? On the shock I am using the the bumpstops and dustshields are built in and the BMW stuff is not reused.






In this case yes they bolt-in and reuse the BMW top hats.

I'm pretty sure that is because the bolts are aluminum and not re-usable per bmw.

Just get the whole suspension checked.

[gjm120]

I'd consider doing M3/1M front control arms while the work is being done. It's a big improvement in road feel and steering response with a little increase in NVH.

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by gjm120

I'd consider doing M3/1M front control arms while the work is being done. It's a big improvement in road feel and steering response with a little increase in NVH.

Originally Posted by swagon

I'm pretty sure that is because the bolts are aluminum and not re-usable per bmw.

Just get the whole suspension checked.

Good advice!

Originally Posted by gjm120

I'd consider doing M3/1M front control arms while the work is being done. It's a big improvement in road feel and steering response with a little increase in NVH.

Already installed...

[snub-nose 28]

Originally Posted by Havocsteve

Anyone running with the B12 kit from Bilstien? It's a slight drop about 50mm but comes with everything. I'm starting to get the dreaded noise when going over a bump so I'm in for new shocks soon.

A 2" drop in the rear is a slight drop? I suggest for street car quite noticeable!

At the front it's virtual lockdown as far as ride and compliance is concerned.

Slammed ricer look when underway, passenger+gear for a weekend.

Garage queen? Well, ok, it's your car. 50mm on a 1er is not slight.

As to noise, I forecast the punishing ride will make noise a mere background

annoyance.

Post some pix and discussion-willing to be totally off-base on this...

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by snub-nose 28

A 2" drop in the rear is a slight drop? I suggest for street car quite noticeable!

At the front it's virtual lockdown as far as ride and compliance is concerned.

Slammed ricer look when underway, passenger+gear for a weekend.

Garage queen? Well, ok, it's your car. 50mm on a 1er is not slight.

As to noise, I forecast the punishing ride will make noise a mere background

annoyance.

Post some pix and discussion-willing to be totally off-base on this...

2-inches ain't a slight drop. My Eibach's dropped about 1.3", and they're considered an aggressive spring...

[Gangplank]

Whoa holly thread jack.

50 mm is slammed and looks terrible in my opinion. Do what you like.

In researching, reading and talking to people who know a LOT about e82s (like Harold at HPA) excessive lowering does not improve performance. My personal opinion is that it's a hack fix for poor poor suspension. People want what they want tho. Poking tires and firm suspension.

Having raced motorcycles for a few years I know that good suspension set up right does not need to be harsh. It can be compliant and grip. I'm not lowering my car much here in this upgrade. Maybe 15mm or 1/2". Any more may actually reduce performance on our cars depending on the coilovers you choose.

[snub-nose 28]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Whoa holly thread jack.

50 mm is slammed and looks terrible in my opinion. Do what you like.

In researching, reading and talking to people who know a LOT about e82s (like Harold at HPA) excessive lowering does not improve performance. My personal opinion is that it's a hack fix for poor poor suspension. People want what they want tho. Poking tires and firm suspension.

Having raced motorcycles for a few years I know that good suspension set up right does not need to be harsh. It can be compliant and grip. I'm not lowering my car much here in this upgrade. Maybe 15mm or 1/2". Any more may actually reduce performance on our cars depending on the coilovers you choose.

HTJ LOL

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Whoa holly thread jack.

50 mm is slammed and looks terrible in my opinion. Do what you like.

In researching, reading and talking to people who know a LOT about e82s (like Harold at HPA) excessive lowering does not improve performance. My personal opinion is that it's a hack fix for poor poor suspension. People want what they want tho. Poking tires and firm suspension.

Having raced motorcycles for a few years I know that good suspension set up right does not need to be harsh. It can be compliant and grip. I'm not lowering my car much here in this upgrade. Maybe 15mm or 1/2". Any more may actually reduce performance on our cars depending on the coilovers you choose.

Yeah, 50mm is a lot imo. My BMW Performance Suspension is 10mm lower than the stock M Sport suspension and I really wouldn't want to go any lower. I don't have to worry about scraping anything, driveways or speed bumps (scraped a speed bump in another car once, what a sinking feeling). At 50mm I"d be pretty worried about clearance and would want to take driveways sideways. lol

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Good advice!



Already installed...

Oops. Never mind.

[Gangplank]

Appreciate the input tho. ;-D

[chris_flies]

It all depends on what you want, really...

Do your research, there are tons of resources regarding the effect certain things have on the handing of your car. I'm not an expert, but I'm happy to answer questions about my experiences...

[MightyMouseTech]

To answer your original question , I would also replace the front sway bar end links and the rear lower shock mounts.

Might be a good time to install an M3 front sway bar with bushings, at the same time.