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      11-04-2013, 09:25 AM   #243
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Do you sell the e92 m3 front swaybar as well? I couldn't find it on your site.
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      11-20-2014, 04:08 AM   #244
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I Always buy OE

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Originally Posted by BMW86 View Post
Based on this info I'd rather pay the extra $$$ and get the ///M stamped parts. They could well be the same but I'm prepared to pay the difference to ensure they are full M spec.
>>I gotta say, my experience has been 100% negative when buying "OEM" parts rather than actual Original Equipment. I've wasted so much money having to buy the original equipment parts AFTER buying the cheaper OEM parts and having them break on me. So never again. A couple hundred bucks is way cheaper than the alternative.

I'm sure there have been folks who can get away with it and had good luck with non stamped parts...but for me, never again.

I am to sensitive to the performance difference to tolerate anything less.
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      11-23-2014, 01:59 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by matreyia View Post
>>I gotta say, my experience has been 100% negative when buying "OEM" parts rather than actual Original Equipment. I've wasted so much money having to buy the original equipment parts AFTER buying the cheaper OEM parts and having them break on me. So never again. A couple hundred bucks is way cheaper than the alternative.

I'm sure there have been folks who can get away with it and had good luck with non stamped parts...but for me, never again.

I am to sensitive to the performance difference to tolerate anything less.
Superior materials and processes usually do cost more.
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      11-23-2014, 10:07 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matreyia View Post
>>I gotta say, my experience has been 100% negative when buying "OEM" parts rather than actual Original Equipment. I've wasted so much money having to buy the original equipment parts AFTER buying the cheaper OEM parts and having them break on me. So never again. A couple hundred bucks is way cheaper than the alternative.

I'm sure there have been folks who can get away with it and had good luck with non stamped parts...but for me, never again.

I am to sensitive to the performance difference to tolerate anything less.
Yeah, that's where I am as well.
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      11-23-2014, 11:09 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by matreyia View Post
>>I gotta say, my experience has been 100% negative when buying "OEM" parts rather than actual Original Equipment. I've wasted so much money having to buy the original equipment parts AFTER buying the cheaper OEM parts and having them break on me. So never again. A couple hundred bucks is way cheaper than the alternative.

I'm sure there have been folks who can get away with it and had good luck with non stamped parts...but for me, never again.

I am to sensitive to the performance difference to tolerate anything less.
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Yeah, that's where I am as well.
So you guys are saying the TRW arms have broken on you or that you can tell the difference between them and the ones from the dealer.
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      11-25-2014, 02:50 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post
Superior materials and processes usually do cost more.
The question is whether the TRW parts with the M logo clearly ground off, have any different functional materials/processes than the TRW parts with the M logo not ground off.

Some of us think not, others are suspicious. There's no way anyone is going to prove it, either way.
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      11-25-2014, 04:46 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
The question is whether the TRW parts with the M logo clearly ground off, have any different functional materials/processes than the TRW parts with the M logo not ground off.

Some of us think not, others are suspicious. There's no way anyone is going to prove it, either way.
One thing is for sure, the BMW markup is ground off in the process too.
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      11-25-2014, 06:42 PM   #250
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Does anybody want to donate a FULL set of original M parts and a set of TRW parts?
I can do a whole slew of tests to determine material properties and will let you know if there is a difference
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      11-25-2014, 09:32 PM   #251
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Funny...I'll repost this here....



This is one of the arms that is physically on my personal car. I now have about 15K miles on these and will be going on two years pretty soon. List of mods are in my sig.

I can also say without a doubt this is common. We sell fuel system upgrades and we have bought a lot of BMW LPFP assemblies. We used to order them in two different ways. OE and OEM...but after a while of ordering OE and finding it to be a complete waste of money, we stopped. Given we no longer sell complete Stage 1 kits with an OE pump, there was no reason to continue paying the extra fee for something that was going to get disassembled and rebuilt anyway. However this is what we saw when we ordered both types.

1. BMW OE replacement. This is a VDO assembly that comes with a part number molded in to the top hat, a sticker, and a little blue stamp on it. Oh and the box had an extra sticker on it with the BMW part number.

2. VDO BMW OEM replacement. This is a VDO assembly that comes with a part molded in to the top hat (but ground off), a sticker, and a little blue stamp on it.

The difference in this case is that we have the ability to bench test them (there is no performance difference) and we also completely disassemble them. Again, there is absolutely no difference.

The funny thing is that the OEM was cheaper but actually costs them more because they have to go in and grind off the part number.

The other funny thing...one time we ordered quite a few pumps and they apparently didn't have enough of the OEM pumps...so they removed the OE pumps from the boxes and sent those as OEM......score! OE pumps for the OEM price that didn't have the numbers etched out.

All that said, I'm not trying to talk anybody into or out of anything...just provide factual information based on our experiences.
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      11-25-2014, 09:43 PM   #252
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Didnt we establish before that TRW sells OE BMW and their own OEM part. The M is ground off because of legal reasons for them to sell a OEM class part.
I dont think they even care which is which - I assume the batch is ordered, they make them all to spec perhaps 20% more than ordered, than they make a % of them OEM by grinding off labels
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      11-25-2014, 10:21 PM   #253
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Fwiw, my indy refuses to install OEM parts that people bring in because they're tired of being blamed when the cars come back with issues. OE BMW only, to the extent that they're turning away business.

Clearly some OEM is better than others, and sometimes you won't have issues (most the time, even), but if you want to install it and forget it, consistently, OE is the only way to go.
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      11-27-2014, 07:08 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
The question is whether the TRW parts with the M logo clearly ground off, have any different functional materials/processes than the TRW parts with the M logo not ground off.

Some of us think not, others are suspicious. There's no way anyone is going to prove it, either way.
TRW says there's no difference, logic dictates there's no difference...

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
Didnt we establish before that TRW sells OE BMW and their own OEM part. The M is ground off because of legal reasons for them to sell a OEM class part.

I dont think they even care which is which - I assume the batch is ordered, they make them all to spec perhaps 20% more than ordered, than they make a % of them OEM by grinding off labels
exactly... being able to specifically sell off only low quality items (or specifically send only the high quality items to BMW) is an absurd idea if you look at how large scale manufacturing takes place, let alone the safety repurcussions of selling a potentially faulty item.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Fwiw, my indy refuses to install OEM parts that people bring in because they're tired of being blamed when the cars come back with issues. OE BMW only, to the extent that they're turning away business.

Clearly some OEM is better than others, and sometimes you won't have issues (most the time, even), but if you want to install it and forget it, consistently, OE is the only way to go.
pretty sure it's already been said but

there's a difference between aftermarket OEM and the contracted OEM.. in this case, TRW is the company BMW paid to make the parts.. the right moulds, accurate specs, the right materials to the right grade etc.

there are OEM's that can make the same part for the aftermarket though, which may be of lesser quality... which is fair enough IMO, i agree sometimes parts can just be worse, of course.

the only reason any mechanic would turn away proper OEM stuff like say this TRW is if they want to push OE for a higher profit margin...

FWIW, i'm up to.. uhhh it'd be ~25k miles, and there's not a bad mark on them... will probably be putting them in the GF's' car soon too.

and As SteveAZ said, fuel pumps are another perfect example.. so are coils, and probably countless other components on our cars.

Last edited by flinchy; 11-27-2014 at 07:14 AM..
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      11-27-2014, 08:46 AM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
TRW says there's no difference, logic dictates there's no difference...



exactly... being able to specifically sell off only low quality items (or specifically send only the high quality items to BMW) is an absurd idea if you look at how large scale manufacturing takes place, let alone the safety repurcussions of selling a potentially faulty item.


pretty sure it's already been said but

there's a difference between aftermarket OEM and the contracted OEM.. in this case, TRW is the company BMW paid to make the parts.. the right moulds, accurate specs, the right materials to the right grade etc.

there are OEM's that can make the same part for the aftermarket though, which may be of lesser quality... which is fair enough IMO, i agree sometimes parts can just be worse, of course.

the only reason any mechanic would turn away proper OEM stuff like say this TRW is if they want to push OE for a higher profit margin...

FWIW, i'm up to.. uhhh it'd be ~25k miles, and there's not a bad mark on them... will probably be putting them in the GF's' car soon too.

and As SteveAZ said, fuel pumps are another perfect example.. so are coils, and probably countless other components on our cars.
Not sure how they're getting more margin when people bring oe parts in vs when people bring oem parts in...?

Being by the actual manufacturer guarantees nothing. E.g. There isn't an oem thermostat for the s62 that doesn't run too cool. If you want to run at the proper temp, OE is the only option.

Glad the oem lottery worked out for you on this occasion. By no means am I saying that 100% of the time it won't work out-- just that it doesn't work out often enough that it's not worth the extra hassle for the savings, imo.
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      11-27-2014, 09:48 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Not sure how they're getting more margin when people bring oe parts in vs when people bring oem parts in...?

Being by the actual manufacturer guarantees nothing. E.g. There isn't an oem thermostat for the s62 that doesn't run too cool. If you want to run at the proper temp, OE is the only option.

Glad the oem lottery worked out for you on this occasion. By no means am I saying that 100% of the time it won't work out-- just that it doesn't work out often enough that it's not worth the extra hassle for the savings, imo.
I think the point of this thread is the investigation of these particular parts not OE vs OEM. I don't think anyone disputes the fact that there can be differences in parts. However this particular thread's focus is control arms not thermostats. People have put in work in contacting the manufacturer to verify that these parts are the same. Distributors have put up pictures showing how they are identical. People who have bought and installed them are weighing in with their experiences. You are trying to discount that, why? You have no experience with these particular parts, you keep talking about a shop which has a particular policy that works for them but that still has nothing to do with this.
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      11-27-2014, 10:59 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FactorX81 View Post
I think the point of this thread is the investigation of these particular parts not OE vs OEM. I don't think anyone disputes the fact that there can be differences in parts. However this particular thread's focus is control arms not thermostats. People have put in work in contacting the manufacturer to verify that these parts are the same. Distributors have put up pictures showing how they are identical. People who have bought and installed them are weighing in with their experiences. You are trying to discount that, why? You have no experience with these particular parts, you keep talking about a shop which has a particular policy that works for them but that still has nothing to do with this.
Ah. Because i don't think one set being good proves all are. You're buying factory seconds. Some will be better than others.
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      11-27-2014, 11:05 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Ah. Because i don't think one set being good proves all are. You're buying factory seconds. Some will be better than others.
Nonsense, pure nonsense. Factory seconds? Where does that come from? The manufacturer didn't say that, they said they were the same. I guess you have seen more than one set of these and had there be a large variation. You have no evidence of anything you are saying.
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      11-28-2014, 11:35 AM   #259
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Nonsense, pure nonsense. Factory seconds? Where does that come from? The manufacturer didn't say that, they said they were the same. I guess you have seen more than one set of these and had there be a large variation. You have no evidence of anything you are saying.
BMW probably has a contract for a set number of parts they will buy from TRW. Though the more parts TRW makes in a manufacturing run, the lower their overall cost to produce the part (which obviously exceeds the contract volume they sell to BMW), therefore they sell what BMW does not buy, since it is good for their profits and good for those who buy the exact same parts for less. They just have to grind off the M logo to not violate their BMW contract.

My experience with the automotive industry shows this is a very common practice and not to be equated with part manufacturers who outsource cheap production to China or Asia to make aftermarket parts and increase their margins.
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      11-28-2014, 11:50 AM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Man View Post
BMW probably has a contract for a set number of parts they will buy from TRW. Though the more parts TRW makes in a manufacturing run, the lower their overall cost to produce the part (which obviously exceeds the contract volume they sell to BMW), therefore they sell what BMW does not buy, since it is good for their profits and good for those who buy the exact same parts for less. They just have to grind off the M logo to not violate their BMW contract.

My experience with the automotive industry shows this is a very common practice and not to be equated with part manufacturers who outsource cheap production to China or Asia to make aftermarket parts and increase their margins.
This is precisely my point the term factory seconds implies parts that are in some way damaged usually cosmetic and therefore cannot be sold as new.
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      11-28-2014, 11:57 AM   #261
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The TRW suspension components I've had look exactly like factory except for the ground off logo.
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      11-30-2014, 01:53 AM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Not sure how they're getting more margin when people bring oe parts in vs when people bring oem parts in...?

Being by the actual manufacturer guarantees nothing. E.g. There isn't an oem thermostat for the s62 that doesn't run too cool. If you want to run at the proper temp, OE is the only option.

Glad the oem lottery worked out for you on this occasion. By no means am I saying that 100% of the time it won't work out-- just that it doesn't work out often enough that it's not worth the extra hassle for the savings, imo.
not margin, the part is more expensive so at the same margin, the value is higher.

it's not a lottery, it's the exact same part, i don't get what's so complex

if you look at the part that you get the car with from BMW, you're guaranteed it's the right one from OEM.

just go look at your coils next time if you want confirmation of this.
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      11-30-2014, 05:14 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
not margin, the part is more expensive so at the same margin, the value is higher.

it's not a lottery, it's the exact same part, i don't get what's so complex

if you look at the part that you get the car with from BMW, you're guaranteed it's the right one from OEM.

just go look at your coils next time if you want confirmation of this.
Still not sure what you think is in it for the Indy-- if I'm bringing the parts, they make no money on them either way.
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      12-01-2014, 03:18 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Man View Post
BMW probably has a contract for a set number of parts they will buy from TRW. Though the more parts TRW makes in a manufacturing run, the lower their overall cost to produce the part (which obviously exceeds the contract volume they sell to BMW), therefore they sell what BMW does not buy, since it is good for their profits and good for those who buy the exact same parts for less. They just have to grind off the M logo to not violate their BMW contract.

My experience with the automotive industry shows this is a very common practice and not to be equated with part manufacturers who outsource cheap production to China or Asia to make aftermarket parts and increase their margins.

Thanks you Iron Man! This is the most logical explanation of why they are cheaper. It should be stickied at the beginning of the thread!
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