Wheel & tires - track use

[smq42]

I've looked through the 1M forums and decided to go with dedicated track wheels with a square setup: Apex ARC-8, 18x10 ET 25 on order!!!

I plan to set up w max camber possible on stock suspension (can't decide between aftermarket camber plates vs upgrading entire suspension; therefore, decided to wait and see how it feels stock)

Now, I'm having trouble picking tires. I have limited track experience and have been told to wait for a while before getting R-compound tires. So, what tires would people recommend?

I have Michelin PSS on my OEM wheels and loved them last year for the track also. They're just too expensive to go through a set very weekend. So, I need tire advice that balances performance and cost.

Thanks!

[TXmtrhed]

Hankook RS3 is a great choice, handle and wear well at the track, in fact they'll probably heat cycle out before you wear them out. Could try Nitto NT05 but they don't last as long IMO and their grip is similar.

[smq42]

Originally Posted by TXmtrhed

Hankook RS3 is a great choice, handle and wear well at the track, in fact they'll probably heat cycle out before you wear them out. Could try Nitto NT05 but they don't last as long IMO and their grip is similar.

Is Hankook RS3 considered "R-compound?"

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by smq42

Is Hankook RS3 considered "R-compound?"

Sure is. That is the tire we are using on our Chump car. In fact, most teams seem to be using the RS3 now. They recently changed the tread wear rating from 140 or so up to 200. Don't think they really changed anything about the tire, just changed the tread wear rating up to the minimum rating required by Chump. It is a big enough market for them to do this.

[hoki06]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Sure is. That is the tire we are using on our Chump car. In fact, most teams seem to be using the RS3 now. They recently changed the tread wear rating from 140 or so up to 200. Don't think they really changed anything about the tire, just changed the tread wear rating up to the minimum rating required by Chump. It is a big enough market for them to do this.

The RS-3 is not an R-compound tire, just a very sticky "extreme summer" tire. The RS-3 is categorized the same as BFG Rivals and Dunlop ZIIs, none of which are R-compounds. Once you break into the 100 treadwear range, like a Nitto NT-01 or Toyo R888, then they're considered R-comps.

[smq42]

Thx guys.

Would RS-3 be a bad idea for someone with limited track experience (<10 track days)?

[craina]

Originally Posted by smq42

Thx guys.

Would RS-3 be a bad idea for someone with limited track experience (<10 track days)?

Nope, they will be fine. Just be careful if you encounter low air temps, you will need to let the tires warm up a bit before pushing them.

From what I understand you will probably need camber plates unless you want to run a square 265 setup. I have read that with 275 up front you will need more negative camber than the stock mounts will offer.

I have Apex 18x10 et25 square and 275/35 Hankook RS3 sitting in my shed. I am waiting on my camber plates to be delivered then I will report back after I get it all installed. I plan on having my shop start at -2, maybe -2.5 degrees

[smq42]

Originally Posted by craina

Nope, they will be fine. Just be careful if you encounter low air temps, you will need to let the tires warm up a bit before pushing them.

From what I understand you will probably need camber plates unless you want to run a square 265 setup. I have read that with 275 up front you will need more negative camber than the stock mounts will offer.

I have Apex 18x10 et25 square and 275/35 Hankook RS3 sitting in my shed. I am waiting on my camber plates to be delivered then I will report back after I get it all installed. I plan on having my shop start at -2, maybe -2.5 degrees

Hmmmm. I was told by Apex that aftermarket camber plates were not needed w 275/35 tires and 18x10 ET 25 on the 1M due to flared fenders up front.

Anyone else running this size?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by smq42

I've looked through the 1M forums and decided to go with dedicated track wheels with a square setup: Apex ARC-8, 18x10 ET 25 on order!!!

I plan to set up w max camber possible on stock suspension (can't decide between aftermarket camber plates vs upgrading entire suspension; therefore, decided to wait and see how it feels stock)

Now, I'm having trouble picking tires. I have limited track experience and have been told to wait for a while before getting R-compound tires. So, what tires would people recommend?

I have Michelin PSS on my OEM wheels and loved them last year for the track also. They're just too expensive to go through a set very weekend. So, I need tire advice that balances performance and cost.

Thanks!

Great choice for wheels!
How many track events have you done and what run group are you in ?

The Michelin PSS are a good street tire that can be tracked but in some conditions they can overheat and chunk and they are also very pricey. Best to leave them for street and car show duty !


Camber plates are a " necessory" for track duty. Without them you will destroy the outside of your tires. Stock suspension is definitely firm enough for track duty for even advanced level drivers. Save the expensive shock and strut mods for later!


If you are a novice or intermediate level driver then a couple of street tire options are :

Dunlop Direzza
Hankook RS3
Yokohama Neova ad008/
Nitto nt-05

If you are intermediate to advanced ( solo driver) then

A Couple Of entry level R options


nitto NT-01
Maxxis RC-1
Toyo R888
Used Continental/ grand am /Tudor take offs from Bimmerworld and Turnermotosport

[craina]

Originally Posted by smq42

Hmmmm. I was told by Apex that aftermarket camber plates were not needed w 275/35 tires and 18x10 ET 25 on the 1M due to flared fenders up front.

Anyone else running this size?

Take a look in the 1M wheels and tires forum, specifically the Apex wheels thread. I can't say for certain you will need camber plates, but it seems like others who run a 275 up front have needed more neg camber.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by craina

Nope, they will be fine. Just be careful if you encounter low air temps, you will need to let the tires warm up a bit before pushing them.

From what I understand you will probably need camber plates unless you want to run a square 265 setup. I have read that with 275 up front you will need more negative camber than the stock mounts will offer.

I have Apex 18x10 et25 square and 275/35 Hankook RS3 sitting in my shed. I am waiting on my camber plates to be delivered then I will report back after I get it all installed. I plan on having my shop start at -2, maybe -2.5 degrees

My camber plates are set at -2.5.

That's good for track and gets the best overall wear and less damage to the outer edge of the tired.

I am lazy and don't drive my car a lot on the street but when I do it wears the street tires on the inside.



If you want to set it and forget it , I would go a little less aggressive and recommend 2.0.

If your car is primarily track only then go 2.5.

if you plan to adjust them often. I would go about 1.8. for your street settings and dial them to max or a little less for track.

Max on my car is -2.8

[smq42]

M3 Adjuster,

Are you running 275s up front and pardon the noob question but are camber settings the same for front and rear wheels?

I assume you have aftermarket camber plates as the stock suspension will only go to approx -1.5 (or so I can gather from researching other threads).

Thanks everyone. Great knowledge and experience on this forum.

[ayao]

Originally Posted by smq42

Hmmmm. I was told by Apex that aftermarket camber plates were not needed w 275/35 tires and 18x10 ET 25 on the 1M due to flared fenders up front.

Anyone else running this size?

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=70

[Mnime]

I ran the NT05's before going to the R888 set up and I like them. They wore well and were pretty sticky. They will also tell you when they are about break loose, so finding the limit is very easy. Like TX said for the RS3's these will heat cycle out before they wear out. In fact, I got all the use out of mine and then used them for my street tires for a few months until I had to actually get a new set of dailys. I was also running them on max OEM camber prior to getting adjustable plates.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ayao

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I ran continental tire takeoffs in 275/3518 on the apex 18x 10s BEFORE camber plates were even available. I had minimal rubbing but the tires were taking a beating. Sure, one can flip the tires on the rim for additional life but one would then end up with tires worn on both edges and still plenty of meat in the center.

Because I was killing even cheap takeoffs at an alarming rate , I was pretty instrumental ( read : the driving force) in getting Vorshlag camber plates developed for the 1m. I kept sending photos of my R tires to terry fair until he caved.

275s fit on the car front and rear with those wheels with no modifications.

The reason for camber plates isn't to FIT the tire , it's to SAVE the tire.

I still have the original and not updated fender liners. ( assuming that my car didn't come with the updated liners ).

[timbo_3101]

OP already sounds very experienced (ten events, increasing treadwear). The advice already provided is excellent, especially Mark's (M3Adjuster) considerable experience.

Regarding rear camber ... many E9x and E8x racers on this forum are running -2.0 (approximately) to complement front camber -2.5 (for example). Personally, I have found stock settings (rear -1.3) to be adequate for uniform treadware of rear tyres; this is confirmed on pyrometry (temperature). Less marked negative rear camber may also facilitate corner exit. With my track-prepped 1M, I am running -3.3 front on KW CS. This allows me to achieve at least 8-10 events on PSC+ (front) and 10-12 events on PSC+ (rear).

Furthermore, I believe that anyone with two sets of wheels should be able to achieve supreme performance under ideal conditions, and to maintain excellent safety under unfavourable conditions.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=941183&page=4
(Melbourne/Victorian temperatures are 10-40oC or 50-105oF, but we prefer 15-25oC or 60-80oF on circuit.)

Two tyres. All conditions.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by smq42

M3 Adjuster,

Are you running 275s up front and pardon the noob question but are camber settings the same for front and rear wheels?

I assume you have aftermarket camber plates as the stock suspension will only go to approx -1.5 (or so I can gather from researching other threads).

Thanks everyone. Great knowledge and experience on this forum.

I have two sets Of track tires currently.

Maxxis 275/35/18 ( review pending ) and BF Goodrich R1 in 285/30/18 - these things ROCK! The square shoulder of the tire really helps with tire wear. They last a lot longer than 275s and less wheelspin at the rear under acceleration.


With regards to rear camber, mine is stock. As Timbo indicated, its not really necessary to mess with the rear unless you are fine tuning for a specific purpose.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Sure is. That is the tire we are using on our Chump car. In fact, most teams seem to be using the RS3 now. They recently changed the tread wear rating from 140 or so up to 200. Don't think they really changed anything about the tire, just changed the tread wear rating up to the minimum rating required by Chump. It is a big enough market for them to do this.

No, not at all considered an R-Comp.

R-Comps are called that when you are below 160 Treadwear...aka the lowest amount physically possible to be DOT rated for road use.

I ran RS3s on my Z4M, and currently run Dunlop ZIIs on my 128i

The RS3s like a lot of slip angle...and I mean alot. Typically in order to fully use the tire to the max, you will have to get the rear end to feel "loose". When I mean this, it will almost feel like the rear is coming around but you have full grip.

Break away is linear, predictable, and these tires can take a ton of heat.


The Dunlop ZIIs do not require much slip angle, and are much more responsive (the harder sidewall is the main reason). The cannot handle as much heat, but when you exceed grip they actually don't drop off as quickly. You certainly exceed the threshold for max grip, but you slowly decrease the amount of grip when you start to overdrive.

They do not drop off as quick.

Just IMO

[Ender_]

I'm with Kgolf31, had the RS3's for track duty, they where 'ok' didn't like them felt greesy.

Went with the ZII's this time around, love them, as was said very responsive and I get good feedback.

I ran the PSS on the track the other weekend (my DD wheels), holy crap do they ever suck on the track. After two laps they had it from the heat.
I suppose if its your first or second time out they would be fine but after that they would get annoying.

[05C4R]

Yoko A050, just amazing

[Jay-K]

ad08r bro here..
best looking!

[1M Tex]

+1 BFG R1