Track tire ?

[bimmer Don]

I currently have 235/40/18 pss on my apex ec7 8.5 front 45et all stock suspension. This set up is close on the from rubing in the inside but there is zero rub. I know people rub with the z1 tire but I was wondering how much bigger do the hankook rs3 run compared to pss in that size. My car is stock camber to

[bimmer Don]

I would love to hear from people who have had both tires also

[GaryS]

I have 235/40/18 Yoko AD08s in front on Apex ARC8s with et45. I used to have the same size PSS on these wheels. With -2.0 camber, the PSS did not rub but the AD08s rubbed on the fender. With -3.2 camber, the AD08s don't rub anymore.

[ApexWheels]

The Hankook RS3 and Dunlop Star Specs run almost the same as far as sizing with the Hankooks maybe running slightly larger. If you are experiencing rubbing on the strut side you can always install a 3mm wheel spacer but you are then that much closer to the fender and may experience rubbing without more negative camber. If you do not have camber plates I highly recommend pulling the alignment pins on your stock strut mounts and adjusting them for as much negative as you can, usually about -1 degree.

I only have direct experience with Dunlop Star Specs but also from hearing other accounts the Dunlops have much better wear and have great wet grip. The Hankooks do have greater ultimate dry grip and do not overheat as easily over a full session on track but do have the wear and wet grip weaknesses where the Star Spec will shine. Dunlop is releasing the Star Spec II this February and that should match the Hankooks dry grip while still maintaining or hopefully improving upon it's already awesome wet grip and wear.

[bimmer Don]

Thank you for your post. Feb is about the time ill be changing and I'm also curious about next star specs. As for the current star specs do need camber only or do you need to use a 3mil spacer with stock suspension

[blutattoo]

I switched fron PSS to Potenza RE-11's and shaved a 1.5 sec off my best times at the local track, although I do notice some rubbing on strut tower at full lock especially when reversing the car. While on the track I haven't experienced any rubbing though. I do run a small amount of neg camber with the pin removed and Dinan fixed camber plates. I also purchased a set of RS-3's for track days but have yet to use them. It's hard to imagine them being any better than the RE-11's, but a forum member was selling them for so cheap I couldn't pass the deal up. Once I get the spacers I'll let you know if I get any rub up front. Both are mounted to ARC 8's in the 1series offset.

[bavarianstig]

NT-01s FTW...

[bimmer Don]

Do they only rub at full lock?

[blutattoo]

Yep, only at full lock. My car is also lowered with koni adj and Dinan springs. I just ordered the 3mm spacers so hopefully that will cure the problem. In any case those tires are pretty damn good albeit an expensive option.

[love67]

Originally Posted by bavarianstig

NT-01s FTW...

for stock suspension? I don't think so. RS3 is the best for the money right now

[bavarianstig]

Originally Posted by love67

for stock suspension? I don't think so. RS3 is the best for the money right now

I disagree, entirely. I don't know what sizes you're running, but I run 235/40 R18 square setup with the Nitto NT01s, which are $195 a piece. The R-S3s are not only $205 each, but also aren't even R-comp tires (they're "extreme summer").

I've previously run extreme performance tires (Kuhmo Ecsta XS), and there simply is no comparison to r-comps like NT01s. Running on stock suspension, I saw 3-4 sec gain in my lap times at VIR between the extreme summer tires and the r-comps. Even more importantly, street tires like the RS-3s will get greasy real fast, and simply cannot sustain high temps like r-comps can.

Yes, performance gains from r-comps will increase even more when running a stiffer setup, but everyone will still have significant gains after switching from an extreme performance summer tire to an r-comp, even on stock suspension.

[love67]

your soft stock suspension with NT01 is gonna make your car has more body roll and its gonna be harder to control. altho NT01 is a little cheaper, but RS-3 has the close grip for first 2 track days and they do last longer. To me, R-comp is for somebody who already max the use of the street tires level. R-comp wont help you to learn anything but Street tires does. the best sticky tires doesn't mean it is the best.

[Sauce]

Originally Posted by bavarianstig

I disagree, entirely. I don't know what sizes you're running, but I run 235/40 R18 square setup with the Nitto NT01s, which are $195 a piece. The R-S3s are not only $205 each, but also aren't even R-comp tires (they're "extreme summer").

I've previously run extreme performance tires (Kuhmo Ecsta XS), and there simply is no comparison to r-comps like NT01s. Running on stock suspension, I saw 3-4 sec gain in my lap times at VIR between the extreme summer tires and the r-comps. Even more importantly, street tires like the RS-3s will get greasy real fast, and simply cannot sustain high temps like r-comps can.

Yes, performance gains from r-comps will increase even more when running a stiffer setup, but everyone will still have significant gains after switching from an extreme performance summer tire to an r-comp, even on stock suspension.

Your assumptions about the RS3's are incorrect. They handle heat as well as an r-comp, they also are VERY similar to NT01's for 1-2 heat cycles. After that they don't match, but they are still very grippy for much longer. I am not saying RS3's will be faster, but they are quite comparable. It's a hell of a tire.

Originally Posted by love67

your soft stock suspension with NT01 is gonna make your car has more body roll and its gonna be harder to control. altho NT01 is a little cheaper, but RS-3 has the close grip for first 2 track days and they do last longer. To me, R-comp is for somebody who already max the use of the street tires level. R-comp wont help you to learn anything but Street tires does. the best sticky tires doesn't mean it is the best.

This, although I don't think the car will be harder to control w/ NT01's. But yes, the biggest mistake people make is moving up to sticky tires way too fast. Until you really understand car dynamics, how the car reacts and your biggest limiting factor of lap times is no longer you, then you are ready for something sticky.

[bavarianstig]

I wholeheartedly agree, if it is one of your first few track days, you shouldnt even be thinking about tires (esp r-comps) unless you're riding on UHP all seasons. The street tires are much more progressive and forgiving, which is especially important in the initial learning phase.

And let me be clear, I'm not downplaying the performance of these extreme summer tires. They are undoubtably the best tire you can get before going to r-comps.

HOWEVER, the post was titled "track tire". That being said, an NT01 is a better track tire than any of the aforementioned tires. Having nearly the same grip for 1-2 heat cycles means nothing...thats like half a day (2 30 min sessions). NT01s especially are a great entry level R-comp, as they are just about the cheapest and longest lasting tire that gives better performance than the extreme summer tires, without the expense and short life of Hoosiers.

[bavarianstig]

So what I think I'm trying to say is, we're both right! haha. Depends on your skill/experience level.

[bimmer Don]

Just wondering would a 225 255 Dunlop. Or rs3. Better better then a 235 265 pss as for as grip and feel

[bavarianstig]

I don't have any personal experience with either of these tires, but 10mm isnt going to make a huge difference either way. Here's a link to Car and Driver's test of max/extreme summer tires. PSS seems a lot more balanced, and has equal or better performance numbers compared to the RS3 or Dunlops.

The only question I have is if there is a difference in their sustainability of grip during extended periods of hard driving (which you experience on the track, and not during autocross). The RS3s and Dunlops might have the edge then if they can sustain high temps better.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...res-tested.pdf

[pixelblue]

Originally Posted by bavarianstig

he RS3s and Dunlops might have the edge then if they can sustain high temps better.

that's the ticket!

[GaryS]

I used PSS on my track wheels in 2011 and Yoko AD08 in 2012. AD08s are similar to RS3 and Star Specs. The PSS felt stickier cold, but that doesn't last long. After five minutes, the AD08s feel stickier. By my 3rd session, the PSS feel greasy, but the AD08s are still getting better and better. That's short term. Long term, the PSS can't handle the heat and start chunking and falling apart, but the AD08s last and last. I recommend PSS for street but one of the extreme performance tires for track.

[yandy]

I've done RE-11s (my daily tire) when I first started, they were a great but $$$ tire. Then moved on to the NT-01s and found out exactly how unforgiving (the hard way) R-Comps can be if you're not experience enough.

This time around, I'm doing RS-3 in January and will report back. The NT-01s were great, but like I said, once they go, they just go. Some of you are familiar with what I'm posting, so I decided to progressively increase my skills.

There fore, while I agree that the NT-01 is a better track tire, if it's your first couple of times, stay away from them. They hide allot of mistakes, that later on may pop up.

I'm doing 255/40/17 RS-3 all around, I do have wide fenders in the front, hence the bigger tire.

[bavarianstig]

Originally Posted by yandy

I've done RE-11s (my daily tire) when I first started, they were a great but $$$ tire. Then moved on to the NT-01s and found out exactly how unforgiving (the hard way) R-Comps can be if you're not experience enough.

This time around, I'm doing RS-3 in January and will report back. The NT-01s were great, but like I said, once they go, they just go. Some of you are familiar with what I'm posting, so I decided to progressively increase my skills.

There fore, while I agree that the NT-01 is a better track tire, if it's your first couple of times, stay away from them. They hide allot of mistakes, that later on may pop up.

I'm doing 255/40/17 RS-3 all around, I do have wide fenders in the front, hence the bigger tire.

To make what yandy said even more explicit, I would suggest people stay away from NT01s/r-comps unless you are in one of the advanced run groups (A/B in BMW CCA, white/red for PCA) or have at least 10-20 track days under your belt. Your ability to make quick, fine adjustments mid-corner, and to anticipate the limit of grip really have to be 2nd nature. Otherwise, your attempts to retain control of the car will be too little too late.