RR Downpipe installation issues

My135 · 03-18-2009, 04:55 PM

If I were you, I would send it back and ask for a refund, then switch to buy it from another manufacturer. It doesn't worth the hassle to go on like this. Good luck.

elite · 03-18-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My135

If I were you, I would send it back and ask for a refund, then switch to buy it from another manufacturer. It doesn't worth the hassle to go on like this. Good luck.

It's beyond hassle at this point. This is amateur work at best.
These are high performance cars we are driving. When he told me his car was shaking like a '71 Ford. I was like hold up! Now I'm getting pissed off. He has a lot more patience than me.

esscolab · 03-18-2009, 05:07 PM

Usually RR comment on issues regarding their products, the silence in this case is a bit disconcerning on their part. They should at least offer a full refund and an explanation and honest opinion on what they think is causing the issue.

adrean8j · 03-18-2009, 11:14 PM

Ok...firstly RR has had many, many, many customers. Secondly the ratio of people with problems with their DP's compared to others without problems is in the positive not negative. Thirdly due to forum rules Riss Racing CANNOT comment on any negative OR positive posts concerning their product. For the most part vendors are extremely limited here with the exception of site "Sponsors". This is not the old 1addicts where we could ask and get certain questions answered easily....If you look at their history here you will see the vast majority give them top-notch marks for their customer service. Get your refund because I am reasonably sure they won't give you any hassle on that and move on......it is making me tired just reading about you struggle with it....just unlucky at the moment I guess

elite · 03-19-2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrean8j

“Associate yourself with people of good quality, for it is better to be alone than in bad company.”(GWC)

do you honestly live by this

?

Berduderunner · 03-19-2009, 12:41 AM

^ funny ^

KEEP US UPDATED ON WHAT RISS SAYS! Please.

Im very curious as too how they handle this situation.

v oops I guess theres my answer v

Riss Racing · 03-19-2009, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrean8j

Ok...firstly RR has had many, many, many customers. Secondly the ratio of people with problems with their DP's compared to others without problems is in the positive not negative. Thirdly due to forum rules Riss Racing CANNOT comment on any negative OR positive posts concerning their product. For the most part vendors are extremely limited here with the exception of site "Sponsors". This is not the old 1addicts where we could ask and get certain questions answered easily....If you look at their history here you will see the vast majority give them top-notch marks for their customer service. Get your refund because I am reasonably sure they won't give you any hassle on that and move on......it is making me tired just reading about you struggle with it....just unlucky at the moment I guess

+1 We cannot comment in this section. As you can see I already have infractions for this, and most likely will get another for this post.

Keith, we have sent countless emails, and given you our personal cell phone numbers spending hours on the phone with you. You first told us the downpipes wouldn't fit at all at Cobb tuning, and now they are on the car at stett.....You needed a fix for the bracket for the intake we made it and shipped it too you FREE. You needed an 02 SIM we sent it too you FREE. We will not stop until your issues are resolved, and I believe our service with you has been 100%. In regards too a code reader they 30 dollars for what you need not a few hundred here is a link http://www.amazon.com/Check-Engine-S...7441276&sr=8-4 on Amazon.

In regards too the person with how much R&D has went into this product we were the first to make downpipes for the N54 2 years ago, and have sold several hundred sets. We also hold all records for ET/DYNOS with the downpipes. We have also made newer versions of our downpipes, and will continue too do this in the future. Some of the other companies offering downpipes either called us to send them a set so they can JIG. Or purchased our turbo flanges so they could make a set. Before bashing a company do some research. Thank you.

KeithLM · 03-19-2009, 12:46 AM

adrean8j you bring up some interesting points, let's address some of these.

1. There's a lot of fanboyism on this forum for Riss, but there have been a lot of issues. Aren't they on the second revision of their downpipes and/or exhaust because of earlier fitment issues? Did they not ship the plenum without having tested it (or at least providing a photo of) with their intake using the c-clamp bracket for the reservoir?

2. They have replied some to this thread. Why can't they answer some of the obvious questions? Why are the sensors so close? Could this not cause problems? Does the sim affect all four O2 sensors? I asked them that in an e-mail 11 hours ago and have not received a reply.

3. I doubt they do all their manufacturing for the exhaust and downpipes, couldn't defects slip in? COBB thought based on the look of the exhaust and the packaging it may well have come from a particular Chinese manufacturer.

4. If their manufacturing is so good that it cannot possibly be prone to error as they seem unable to accept such an idea, why then did they choose to design the exhaust with a flange that is different than the stock size as well as their own downpipe flange? Why is that their downpipes, my downpipes, and my exhaust use all the same sizes for the flange, but their exhaust is so different it cannot even connect to the stock downpipes without boring out the holes? If it was manufacturing variance with BMW, why are Riss's downpipes different than their exhaust yet the same as my downpipes?

5. How many people have received bad O2 sims? Seems to me I've seen that mentioned a lot. Perhaps they are fragile and damaged in shipping somehow.

6. Why do so many people seem to need O2 sims with catted downpipes when I'm told it's only 5%? If the resistors are only needed in extraordinary cases, is it believable that they'd be needed on a car with the catted downpipes also?

There's a lot more to my story. They know about a lot of it. The fitment on the exhaust was just plain horrible. And c'mon, do you really believe it should be so hard for a company like COBB to put on downpipes? Sure they're not a BMW shop, but they have a lot of experience and have the knowledge to engineer their own parts. They followed the instructions and they would not fit. They talked to Daniel but that was no help. Stett does BMWs almost exclusively. Engine swaps, custom intakes and exhaust, turbo replacements, a bit of everything really. He even has distributors for the parts he's designed. And he's done Riss downpipes before. But these were particularly troublesome. And supposedly this guy can't figure out how to install an O2 sim?

I have approached the subject about refunds before, here's some of what I've been told.
1. They've never had an exhaust returned, ever.
2. Daniel did Terry Buger's car personally.
3. Daniel has done the install without using a lift.
4. Every record setting car uses their parts.
5. They've got their parts installed on hundreds of cars.

Well folks, I got photos to prove there're issues. Do those O2 sensors really look well placed to anyone? Is that how all the catted downpipes have been?

This goes beyond just a simple refund. There's labor involved in this too.

The purpose of the thread wasn't to slam Riss, it was to get help. I want other people's feedback on installation issues and see if there's something I'm missing. I'd like to see if other people's catted downpipes have the sensors mounted so close. I'd prefer pictures because that says so much more than words. I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if someone can show me differently.

My car has been in the shop 5 different times for this. I've lost a whole day of work and half my Saturday. I've invested a lot of time and money in trying to make this happen. It's supposed to be a fairly straightforward bolt on. Can an April '08 car really have such drastic manufacturing variations that it's so much more trouble than everyone else's car?

Berduderunner · 03-19-2009, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riss Racing

You needed a fix for the bracket for the intake we made it and shipped it too you FREE. You needed an 02 SIM we sent it too you FREE.

I wouldn't make such a big deal out of all of that "FREE" stuff... Most people expect that from high end tuning companies... Wheres his compensation for all the extra time and money he sunk into fixing your faulty product? Regardless if its a 1 in a 1000 fluke!

KeithLM · 03-19-2009, 01:06 AM

I'd like to note that I was typing my last message as Anthony his last one.

Anthony, COBB sent you their photos. They followed your instructions, they wouldn't fit. Stett had to diverge from your instructions to make them fit, and the O2 sensors are either touching, or a hair's width from one another. Yes I was initially wrong about them fitting, but it still took Stett a lot of work to figure that out. And the exhaust wasn't close when attached to your downpipes, yet the stock exhaust attached to the your downpipes perfectly. So that would imply that the downpipes are in correct and yet the O2 sensors are still awfully close.

I'll get the code reader, it's $40, that's bearable. I believe someone else referenced the BMW specific unit that I've seen for $279 if I'm not mistaken. I thought that is what I would need, but I was mistaken.

Also, you sent that O2 sim with the downpipes. I just asked if I might need one and you said 95% of the time no. Of course these are the same downpipes you told me on Feb. 6th would ship in the following week, I received the FedEx tracking number on the 9th, and they didn't leave your shop until 18th and were the wrong ones. The exhaust was worse, tracking number came to me on the 9th, and it left on the 20th. And what did I hear the first few times I asked about it? "FedEx doesn't always update right away." Then after sending the downpipes back I received a tracking number the last week of February, on March 2nd I had to ask where they were and you said they'd go out the 3rd. On the 4th still nothing and you said they'd go out the 5th and you finally overnighted them to me. And with both the downpipes and that intake you sent me (do you really want me to bring that up?) I had to follow up each time and ask for reimbursement for the shipping.

You know what, I got every reason to be pissed at you! So don't lecture me! It's not my fault you haven't shown how the plenum can be mounted with the original bracket you supplied me. It's not my fault you failed to ship things when you said you would. It's not my fault my initial inquiries about shipping were met with a dodge. It's not my fault you sent me the wrong downpipes. It's not my fault it took me contacting you multiple times to send out the proper downpipes. It's not my fault you sent me an intake that no one would consider acceptable. It's not my fault your exhaust didn't fit.

Riss Racing · 03-19-2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeithLM

adrean8j you bring up some interesting points, let's address some of these.

1. There's a lot of fanboyism on this forum for Riss, but there have been a lot of issues. Aren't they on the second revision of their downpipes and/or exhaust because of earlier fitment issues? Did they not ship the plenum without having tested it (or at least providing a photo of) with their intake using the c-clamp bracket for the reservoir?

Is fanboyism a bad thing? People like our products, and we supply a full solution for the N54 with a vast product line. There were 3-4 people out of 300 that had this bracket issue.

2. They have replied some to this thread. Why can't they answer some of the obvious questions? Why are the sensors so close? Could this not cause problems? Does the sim affect all four O2 sensors? I asked them that in an e-mail 11 hours ago and have not received a reply.

The sensors havent changed at all. There are several hundred people with these on their cars just fine. Could it possibly be install. I assure you if those were here we would have them on with no issue including the exhaust. Just how you said the downpipes would not fit on the car with Cobb but they are on the car now? You assured me 100% that it wouldn't work however they are on the car now correct? You also were telling me the code was 100% coming from the downpipes, and WHILE I WAS ON THE PHONE WITH YOU. Your tech realized your intake wasn't even secure in the back. You also said the oil was leaking from the downpipes. How could this happen when oil doesn't pass through downpipes then your tech figures out it could be because your intake/catch can wasn't on securely....

3. I doubt they do all their manufacturing for the exhaust and downpipes, couldn't defects slip in? COBB thought based on the look of the exhaust and the packaging it may well have come from a particular Chinese manufacturer.

We do all our manufactoring, and our products are made in the USA. We only source a few things such as flanges from other shops locally that stock the products for us. Cobb tunning also couldn't get the downpipes on the car

4. If their manufacturing is so good that it cannot possibly be prone to error as they seem unable to accept such an idea, why then did they choose to design the exhaust with a flange that is different than the stock size as well as their own downpipe flange? Why is that their downpipes, my downpipes, and my exhaust use all the same sizes for the flange, but their exhaust is so different it cannot even connect to the stock downpipes without boring out the holes? If it was manufacturing variance with BMW, why are Riss's downpipes different than their exhaust yet the same as my downpipes?

You must also realize we need the exhaust/downpipes to fit with OEM for people with OEM downpipes and our exhaust. Or with our catless downpipes, and our exhaust, or catted downpipes and our exhaust, or catted downpipes and OEM exhaust, or catless downpipes, and OEM exhaust. The OEM downpipes use a fixed bolt flange. You also need to realize every car is not exactly the same. Pipes heat/and cool. People hit things their exhasust moves. People with 2k miles on their car exhaust bushings will be less worn and not sagg compared to somebody with 80k miles on their car. These all play a factor. The downpipes also need too fit on RHD and LHD which are different fitments same with the exhaust.

5. How many people have received bad O2 sims? Seems to me I've seen that mentioned a lot. Perhaps they are fragile and damaged in shipping somehow.

We have sent out over 1000 02 SIMs. BMW does updates too the cars so we have to add adjustment harnesses. People also have different weather conditions. Some people don't need a SIM at all with catless! Some need just the SIM. Some need the SIM with the harness. Most don't need a SIM with catted. Some do. We make a solution for all of this with feedback from customers. It is 100% impossible to be prepared or test for every car around the world. We make fixes after we release products and adjustments like any company. We also sell a lot of product and have a huge customer base. So when you send out sevar hundred downpipes opposed to a company that sends out 50 your going to have some issues. Thats when service kicks in like me being on this forum at 11pm at night working with you on this for the public too see or private as I replied too your emails.

6. Why do so many people seem to need O2 sims with catted downpipes when I'm told it's only 5%? If the resistors are only needed in extraordinary cases, is it believable that they'd be needed on a car with the catted downpipes also?

What is 5% of 700? 35....People post when they have issues. Thats why you see it.

There's a lot more to my story. They know about a lot of it. The fitment on the exhaust was just plain horrible. And c'mon, do you really believe it should be so hard for a company like COBB to put on downpipes? Sure they're not a BMW shop, but they have a lot of experience and have the knowledge to engineer their own parts. They followed the instructions and they would not fit. They talked to Daniel but that was no help. Stett does BMWs almost exclusively. Engine swaps, custom intakes and exhaust, turbo replacements, a bit of everything really. He even has distributors for the parts he's designed. And he's done Riss downpipes before. But these were particularly troublesome. And supposedly this guy can't figure out how to install an O2 sim?

I do not know why its so hard for them too put on downpipes. Daniel did terrys on his back in terrys driveway. Downpipes & exhaust and has done this service for many people. Could it be the fact that they don't install many BMW downpipes which are very tech. I'm sure if they installed a few hundred sets it would be no problem. But when its your first time installing them its not a REALLY easy task.

I have approached the subject about refunds before, here's some of what I've been told.
1. They've never had an exhaust returned, ever.
2. Daniel did Terry Buger's car personally.
3. Daniel has done the install without using a lift.
4. Every record setting car uses their parts.
5. They've got their parts installed on hundreds of cars.

Well folks, I got photos to prove there're issues. Do those O2 sensors really look well placed to anyone? Is that how all the catted downpipes have been?

This goes beyond just a simple refund. There's labor involved in this too.

We also already said we would refund your exhaust. Last time I check you had already shipped it and the second it is here we are sending the refund. You also got a discount on the downpipes & exhaust together you did not buy at full price. You paid 2k for the exhaust coated retailed at $1,399 at the time and the catted COATED downpipes retails at $1099 plus we didnt charge you shipping. Up front you already saved $500+

The purpose of the thread wasn't to slam Riss, it was to get help. I want other people's feedback on installation issues and see if there's something I'm missing. I'd like to see if other people's catted downpipes have the sensors mounted so close. I'd prefer pictures because that says so much more than words. I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if someone can show me differently.

The purpose of this thread was not too slam us? While we were providing you service on a daily basis both phone support, and email. Myself, and Adam have had countless emails with you. Daniel has spent hours on the phone with you, and your techs, and I too have spent time with you on the phone.

My car has been in the shop 5 different times for this. I've lost a whole day of work and half my Saturday. I've invested a lot of time and money in trying to make this happen. It's supposed to be a fairly straightforward bolt on. Can an April '08 car really have such drastic manufacturing variations that it's so much more trouble than everyone else's car?

You seem to be the only person with this many issues. I would know since I handle it anytime there is this much of an issue. I mean we have sent out hundreds upon hundreds of products to members on this forum alone...I don't see anything like this on here opposed to minor issues? This is my last public reply too your posts. If you want to continue here that is fine. I will continue to provide you with quality service, and help in anyway we can. Thanks

/

KeithLM · 03-19-2009, 01:58 AM

How can the install of a rigid part like the downpipes that are connected to a rigid part like the turbo mountings be so wrong that the sensors end up that way? If you guys moved the bung holes a few mm it'd be a lot easier! Can you not see that? The fact is COBB followed your instructions and they were not comfortable with how it was ending up. You've seen the photos, is that really expected? Why aren't your instructions different if the procedure is different for catted pipes? The picture in the DIY of the catless pipes shows sensors in a significantly different position then mine are at. When COBB hit that point, when they were so far off from your instructions, and you guys weren't in the office to view their photos, they gave up, and legitimately so. They can't leave the car in that state for an indeterminate amount of time until you are able to get around to viewing the photos.

I never said the oil leak was in the downpipes, I asked if the downpipe installation could cause it. Could it put stress on the turbos or some other fitting that would lead to this situation? Stett says no. Yes we were initially wrong to blame you, but considering everything else I've cited above, don't you think I might start putting the blame on you? There comes a point where you lose all the good will you've tried to generate and I've lost my faith in your quality. Furthermore it was all the work I did on your intake to try and push it back further in the car because you have insisted I must not have it far enough back that most likely resulted in that fitting coming loose.

Sure I got a discounted price, but I've more than made up for that now and you had that money well before I ever had my parts. And you guys were hard to get hold of last week. And you've ignored multiple e-mails and voicemails. I left a message yesterday and sent an e-mail asking for any further input you could provide on the sim installation. You've been pretty adamant in insisting that that must be the issue. If you would provide me with more info like the following:
1. Are there particular wires that might easily be confused even by an experienced person working in that wiring harness?
2. Are there some connections that might look secure but actually not be?
3. If the thing is wired wrong, wouldn't it confuse something else in the car?
4. If a wire isn't connected right, does that also throw 420 and 430?
5. What would happen if the red and white wires were connected to the wrong yellow wires?
6. Do you have past experiences with a mis-wired sim that you could share that might point me in the right direction? Others have mentioned that the oil dripping and rough idle should have been a sign to those knowledgeable about where the problem lay. Isn't there something you can tell me that would indicate issues with the O2 sim.

Look, I'm a computer scientist. I'm used to troubleshooting odd things. The whole point of this thread was to try and find other people that have had issues with this install and see if their experience could help me any. Perhaps there is a symptom that I'm missing. Throw me a bone here, feed me some more information, perhaps I can use that and deduce what the problem is. Stett charged me for the install of the sim, and has been inside it multiple times trying to verify the wires are right without charging me extra, but he's done doing that for free. I was in it last night but Stett removed the resistors after the car threw 0030 with those in. I'll get back in there once I have the resistors, I'll check every wire. If I have to I'll break out my camera and the macro lens and get good shots and send those to you. But give me some more info before I get back in there.

Also, exactly one minute after you sent me an e-mail stating:
"The 02 SIM makes it so this signal does not occur at all. Like I have said a few times before. If it was catless or catted or you had little lemons in there. The 02 SIM stops the signal from the 02 Sensors...."
I responded with:
"All four O2 sensors? This is a different code than the 420 and 430
codes you mentioned."
It took you 11.5 hours to get back to me and I sent you the other code beforehand which is what you responded to in the first place. And I still don't know the answer to this question! And consider the aforementioned problems with getting accurate shipping information and shipping charges refunded along with other issues, no, your service hasn't been 100%.

I should have the code reader late next week. That will help. I'm making an effort.

Riss Racing · 03-19-2009, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeithLM

How can the install of a rigid part like the downpipes that are connected to a rigid part like the turbo mountings be so wrong that the sensors end up that way? If you guys moved the bung holes a few mm it'd be a lot easier! Can you not see that? The fact is COBB followed your instructions and they were not comfortable with how it was ending up. You've seen the photos, is that really expected? Why aren't your instructions different if the procedure is different for catted pipes? The picture in the DIY of the catless pipes shows sensors in a significantly different position then mine are at. When COBB hit that point, when they were so far off from your instructions, and you guys weren't in the office to view their photos, they gave up, and legitimately so. They can't leave the car in that state for an indeterminate amount of time until you are able to get around to viewing the photos.

I never said the oil leak was in the downpipes, I asked if the downpipe installation could cause it. Could it put stress on the turbos or some other fitting that would lead to this situation? Stett says no. Yes we were initially wrong to blame you, but considering everything else I've cited above, don't you think I might start putting the blame on you? There comes a point where you lose all the good will you've tried to generate and I've lost my faith in your quality. Furthermore it was all the work I did on your intake to try and push it back further in the car because you have insisted I must not have it far enough back that most likely resulted in that fitting coming loose.

Sure I got a discounted price, but I've more than made up for that now and you had that money well before I ever had my parts. And you guys were hard to get hold of last week. And you've ignored multiple e-mails and voicemails. I left a message yesterday and sent an e-mail asking for any further input you could provide on the sim installation. You've been pretty adamant in insisting that that must be the issue. If you would provide me with more info like the following:
1. Are there particular wires that might easily be confused even by an experienced person working in that wiring harness?
2. Are there some connections that might look secure but actually not be?
3. If the thing is wired wrong, wouldn't it confuse something else in the car?
4. If a wire isn't connected right, does that also throw 420 and 430?
5. What would happen if the red and white wires were connected to the wrong yellow wires?
6. Do you have past experiences with a mis-wired sim that you could share that might point me in the right direction? Others have mentioned that the oil dripping and rough idle should have been a sign to those knowledgeable about where the problem lay. Isn't there something you can tell me that would indicate issues with the O2 sim.

Look, I'm a computer scientist. I'm used to troubleshooting odd things. The whole point of this thread was to try and find other people that have had issues with this install and see if their experience could help me any. Perhaps there is a symptom that I'm missing. Throw me a bone here, feed me some more information, perhaps I can use that and deduce what the problem is. Stett charged me for the install of the sim, and has been inside it multiple times trying to verify the wires are right without charging me extra, but he's done doing that for free. I was in it last night but Stett removed the resistors after the car threw 0030 with those in. I'll get back in there once I have the resistors, I'll check every wire. If I have to I'll break out my camera and the macro lens and get good shots and send those to you. But give me some more info before I get back in there.

Also, exactly one minute after you sent me an e-mail stating:
"The 02 SIM makes it so this signal does not occur at all. Like I have said a few times before. If it was catless or catted or you had little lemons in there. The 02 SIM stops the signal from the 02 Sensors...."
I responded with:
"All four O2 sensors? This is a different code than the 420 and 430
codes you mentioned."
It took you 11.5 hours to get back to me and I sent you the other code beforehand which is what you responded to in the first place. And I still don't know the answer to this question! And consider the aforementioned problems with getting accurate shipping information and shipping charges refunded along with other issues, no, your service hasn't been 100%.

I should have the code reader late next week. That will help. I'm making an effort.

Keith like I said in my pevious post. We will take care of it. Posting on here isn't going to resolve the issue. I replied too your email and will continue too work with you. I'm NOT ALLOWED to keep posting here. Thanks.

adrean8j · 03-19-2009, 05:05 AM

...

adrean8j · 03-19-2009, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elite

do you honestly live by this

?

Do you honestly NOT get it? It is meant to be FAR OUT like that to show how distasteful it is to be in bad company. I WOULD rather be alone than to be around a bunch of A-holes. And yes the people I call my friends and "associate" with ARE people of good quality. Friggin' bonehead...I guess I would NOT be associating with you. Do you even know WHO I am quoting?

Jeez.....

adc · 03-19-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

You seem to be the only person with this many issues. I would know since I handle it anytime there is this much of an issue.

Regarding fitment...

So either there is something different about his car, or something different about his downpipes.

In the first case, you should have done more testing or R&D. I would have flown a technician on the site to figure it out - may benefit other customers in the future and your company's knowledge base.

In the second case, there could be a manufacturing defect. Have you ever considered sending him another set of downpipes to see if the problem is still there.

You probably would have gotten a glowing report as a result, not this bitter post. Honestly, I had absolutely no preference on downpipes before this post - but now I'll absolutely avoid RR simply because it's not clear to me what went wrong, or if it could happen to me.

Bad for business.

M3Newbie88 · 03-19-2009, 08:24 AM

Just going to chim in on this as I've been pming KeithLM..

Based on this conversation "My car has been in the shop 5 different times for this. I've lost a whole day of work and half my Saturday. I've invested a lot of time and money in trying to make this happen. It's supposed to be a fairly straightforward bolt on. Can an April '08 car really have such drastic manufacturing variations that it's so much more trouble than everyone else's car?

You seem to be the only person with this many issues. I would know since I handle it anytime there is this much of an issue. I mean we have sent out hundreds upon hundreds of products to members on this forum alone...I don't see anything like this on here opposed to minor issues? This is my last public reply too your posts. If you want to continue here that is fine. I will continue to provide you with quality service, and help in anyway we can. Thanks"

I've also had alot of problems with the downpipes as I had another thread going but got tired about all this... I've sinced removed my downpipes and indeed I can tell you fitment on these catted DPs are no good.. I paid the highest premium since I got the catted coated dps to get something that did not fit and because to make it fit some of the coating is removed.. second of all the codes I got.. yes they sent me an o2 sim for free which corrected 2 but then there was a third that they had no idea what it was.. but just accusing it to be related to boost creep or wrong installation..

Final result.. removed.. car runs better then ever.. no codes.. would love a refund but highly doubt it..

Reference to one of my threads about one of the problems I have: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234455

P.S. I do believe that their service is very good no doubt about it but fitment is usually an issue (intake included).. i've praised their products which you can find on the forum but the downpipes were a disappointment.. had problems from the first day they were installed... maybe its my car.. maybe its not.. dunno..

Berduderunner · 03-19-2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adc

Regarding fitment...

In the first case, you should have done more testing or R&D. I would have flown a technician on the site to figure it out - may benefit other customers in the future and your company's knowledge base.

In the second case, there could be a manufacturing defect. Have you ever considered sending him another set of downpipes to see if the problem is still there.

You probably would have gotten a glowing report as a result, not this bitter post. Honestly, I had absolutely no preference on downpipes before this post - but now I'll absolutely avoid RR simply because it's not clear to me what went wrong, or if it could happen to me.

Bad for business.

AMEN

My135 · 03-19-2009, 09:33 AM

Like what he said, he was not trying to slam RR. He just want to get help and finish the business and move on. In this case, I think RR should send some one to go on-site and figure out what is wrong. I know this cause RR some money, but it sure can save their reputation as one of the top vendors. Who know, may be the part was bad just like our HPFP.

KeithLM · 03-19-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My135

Like what he said, he was not trying to slam RR. He just want to get help and finish the business and move on. In this case, I think RR should send some one to go on-site and figure out what is wrong. I know this cause RR some money, but it sure can save their reputation as one of the top vendors. Who know, may be the part was bad just like our HPFP.

The expense of a flight, accommodations, and possibly garage space to resolve this? Sure it goes above and beyond what most companies would do, but that might be to much for them to justify. I'm fairly certain they can find other ways to make me happy that would put them to less trouble and expense. And when we resolution one way or another, I promise to make it known here.

elite · 03-19-2009, 10:28 AM

well said! This is very bad for business and I would avoid such a company. I'll pass on Plug & Pray when it comes to my car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adc

Regarding fitment...

So either there is something different about his car, or something different about his downpipes.

In the first case, you should have done more testing or R&D. I would have flown a technician on the site to figure it out - may benefit other customers in the future and your company's knowledge base.

In the second case, there could be a manufacturing defect. Have you ever considered sending him another set of downpipes to see if the problem is still there.

You probably would have gotten a glowing report as a result, not this bitter post. Honestly, I had absolutely no preference on downpipes before this post - but now I'll absolutely avoid RR simply because it's not clear to me what went wrong, or if it could happen to me.

Bad for business.

elite · 03-19-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berduderunner

I wouldn't make such a big deal out of all of that "FREE" stuff... Most people expect that from high end tuning companies... Wheres his compensation for all the extra time and money he sunk into fixing your faulty product? Regardless if its a 1 in a 1000 fluke!

LOL! We can get more FREE RR junk on craigslist. Handing out sensors like flu shots.

03-18-2009, 04:55 PM	#67
My135 Lieutenant Colonel 85 Rep 1,609 Posts Drives: Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0)	If I were you, I would send it back and ask for a refund, then switch to buy it from another manufacturer. It doesn't worth the hassle to go on like this. Good luck. __________________ 7/08 135 Coupe, Crimson Red, 6 SP, Sport, Taupe Lette/Aluminum. Performance Mods: JB4 on Map 5, BMS DP Fix V3, Injen polished intake, AR Catless DP, Maddad resonated mid-pipes, aFe exhaust polished tips, ST Suspension Coil Over and Hotchkis front sway bar. Others: BMS OCC, BT Scanner, Mud Flap. Next Mods: AA Front Strut Brace.
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03-18-2009, 05:07 PM	#69
esscolab Brigadeer 73 Rep 728 Posts Drives: Black 135i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colchester - UK iTrader: (0)	Usually RR comment on issues regarding their products, the silence in this case is a bit disconcerning on their part. They should at least offer a full refund and an explanation and honest opinion on what they think is causing the issue. __________________ Eibach Sports springs, Evole Remap, Quafe LSD, AR Downpipes, Forge FMIC, Hart'ge Quads, BMS Intake.
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03-19-2009, 12:41 AM	#72
Berduderunner drk one 38 Rep 797 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Tampa/Orlando iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 e90 335i [0.00] 2008 135i [0.00]	^ funny ^ KEEP US UPDATED ON WHAT RISS SAYS! Please. Im very curious as too how they handle this situation. v oops I guess theres my answer v Last edited by Berduderunner; 03-19-2009 at 12:59 AM..
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03-19-2009, 12:46 AM	#74
KeithLM Proud 1er 24 Rep 699 Posts Drives: Crimson/Coral 135i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Wylie, TX iTrader: (0)	adrean8j you bring up some interesting points, let's address some of these. 1. There's a lot of fanboyism on this forum for Riss, but there have been a lot of issues. Aren't they on the second revision of their downpipes and/or exhaust because of earlier fitment issues? Did they not ship the plenum without having tested it (or at least providing a photo of) with their intake using the c-clamp bracket for the reservoir? 2. They have replied some to this thread. Why can't they answer some of the obvious questions? Why are the sensors so close? Could this not cause problems? Does the sim affect all four O2 sensors? I asked them that in an e-mail 11 hours ago and have not received a reply. 3. I doubt they do all their manufacturing for the exhaust and downpipes, couldn't defects slip in? COBB thought based on the look of the exhaust and the packaging it may well have come from a particular Chinese manufacturer. 4. If their manufacturing is so good that it cannot possibly be prone to error as they seem unable to accept such an idea, why then did they choose to design the exhaust with a flange that is different than the stock size as well as their own downpipe flange? Why is that their downpipes, my downpipes, and my exhaust use all the same sizes for the flange, but their exhaust is so different it cannot even connect to the stock downpipes without boring out the holes? If it was manufacturing variance with BMW, why are Riss's downpipes different than their exhaust yet the same as my downpipes? 5. How many people have received bad O2 sims? Seems to me I've seen that mentioned a lot. Perhaps they are fragile and damaged in shipping somehow. 6. Why do so many people seem to need O2 sims with catted downpipes when I'm told it's only 5%? If the resistors are only needed in extraordinary cases, is it believable that they'd be needed on a car with the catted downpipes also? There's a lot more to my story. They know about a lot of it. The fitment on the exhaust was just plain horrible. And c'mon, do you really believe it should be so hard for a company like COBB to put on downpipes? Sure they're not a BMW shop, but they have a lot of experience and have the knowledge to engineer their own parts. They followed the instructions and they would not fit. They talked to Daniel but that was no help. Stett does BMWs almost exclusively. Engine swaps, custom intakes and exhaust, turbo replacements, a bit of everything really. He even has distributors for the parts he's designed. And he's done Riss downpipes before. But these were particularly troublesome. And supposedly this guy can't figure out how to install an O2 sim? I have approached the subject about refunds before, here's some of what I've been told. 1. They've never had an exhaust returned, ever. 2. Daniel did Terry Buger's car personally. 3. Daniel has done the install without using a lift. 4. Every record setting car uses their parts. 5. They've got their parts installed on hundreds of cars. Well folks, I got photos to prove there're issues. Do those O2 sensors really look well placed to anyone? Is that how all the catted downpipes have been? This goes beyond just a simple refund. There's labor involved in this too. The purpose of the thread wasn't to slam Riss, it was to get help. I want other people's feedback on installation issues and see if there's something I'm missing. I'd like to see if other people's catted downpipes have the sensors mounted so close. I'd prefer pictures because that says so much more than words. I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if someone can show me differently. My car has been in the shop 5 different times for this. I've lost a whole day of work and half my Saturday. I've invested a lot of time and money in trying to make this happen. It's supposed to be a fairly straightforward bolt on. Can an April '08 car really have such drastic manufacturing variations that it's so much more trouble than everyone else's car?
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03-19-2009, 01:06 AM	#76
KeithLM Proud 1er 24 Rep 699 Posts Drives: Crimson/Coral 135i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Wylie, TX iTrader: (0)	I'd like to note that I was typing my last message as Anthony his last one. Anthony, COBB sent you their photos. They followed your instructions, they wouldn't fit. Stett had to diverge from your instructions to make them fit, and the O2 sensors are either touching, or a hair's width from one another. Yes I was initially wrong about them fitting, but it still took Stett a lot of work to figure that out. And the exhaust wasn't close when attached to your downpipes, yet the stock exhaust attached to the your downpipes perfectly. So that would imply that the downpipes are in correct and yet the O2 sensors are still awfully close. I'll get the code reader, it's $40, that's bearable. I believe someone else referenced the BMW specific unit that I've seen for $279 if I'm not mistaken. I thought that is what I would need, but I was mistaken. Also, you sent that O2 sim with the downpipes. I just asked if I might need one and you said 95% of the time no. Of course these are the same downpipes you told me on Feb. 6th would ship in the following week, I received the FedEx tracking number on the 9th, and they didn't leave your shop until 18th and were the wrong ones. The exhaust was worse, tracking number came to me on the 9th, and it left on the 20th. And what did I hear the first few times I asked about it? "FedEx doesn't always update right away." Then after sending the downpipes back I received a tracking number the last week of February, on March 2nd I had to ask where they were and you said they'd go out the 3rd. On the 4th still nothing and you said they'd go out the 5th and you finally overnighted them to me. And with both the downpipes and that intake you sent me (do you really want me to bring that up?) I had to follow up each time and ask for reimbursement for the shipping. You know what, I got every reason to be pissed at you! So don't lecture me! It's not my fault you haven't shown how the plenum can be mounted with the original bracket you supplied me. It's not my fault you failed to ship things when you said you would. It's not my fault my initial inquiries about shipping were met with a dodge. It's not my fault you sent me the wrong downpipes. It's not my fault it took me contacting you multiple times to send out the proper downpipes. It's not my fault you sent me an intake that no one would consider acceptable. It's not my fault your exhaust didn't fit.
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03-19-2009, 01:58 AM	#78
KeithLM Proud 1er 24 Rep 699 Posts Drives: Crimson/Coral 135i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Wylie, TX iTrader: (0)	How can the install of a rigid part like the downpipes that are connected to a rigid part like the turbo mountings be so wrong that the sensors end up that way? If you guys moved the bung holes a few mm it'd be a lot easier! Can you not see that? The fact is COBB followed your instructions and they were not comfortable with how it was ending up. You've seen the photos, is that really expected? Why aren't your instructions different if the procedure is different for catted pipes? The picture in the DIY of the catless pipes shows sensors in a significantly different position then mine are at. When COBB hit that point, when they were so far off from your instructions, and you guys weren't in the office to view their photos, they gave up, and legitimately so. They can't leave the car in that state for an indeterminate amount of time until you are able to get around to viewing the photos. I never said the oil leak was in the downpipes, I asked if the downpipe installation could cause it. Could it put stress on the turbos or some other fitting that would lead to this situation? Stett says no. Yes we were initially wrong to blame you, but considering everything else I've cited above, don't you think I might start putting the blame on you? There comes a point where you lose all the good will you've tried to generate and I've lost my faith in your quality. Furthermore it was all the work I did on your intake to try and push it back further in the car because you have insisted I must not have it far enough back that most likely resulted in that fitting coming loose. Sure I got a discounted price, but I've more than made up for that now and you had that money well before I ever had my parts. And you guys were hard to get hold of last week. And you've ignored multiple e-mails and voicemails. I left a message yesterday and sent an e-mail asking for any further input you could provide on the sim installation. You've been pretty adamant in insisting that that must be the issue. If you would provide me with more info like the following: 1. Are there particular wires that might easily be confused even by an experienced person working in that wiring harness? 2. Are there some connections that might look secure but actually not be? 3. If the thing is wired wrong, wouldn't it confuse something else in the car? 4. If a wire isn't connected right, does that also throw 420 and 430? 5. What would happen if the red and white wires were connected to the wrong yellow wires? 6. Do you have past experiences with a mis-wired sim that you could share that might point me in the right direction? Others have mentioned that the oil dripping and rough idle should have been a sign to those knowledgeable about where the problem lay. Isn't there something you can tell me that would indicate issues with the O2 sim. Look, I'm a computer scientist. I'm used to troubleshooting odd things. The whole point of this thread was to try and find other people that have had issues with this install and see if their experience could help me any. Perhaps there is a symptom that I'm missing. Throw me a bone here, feed me some more information, perhaps I can use that and deduce what the problem is. Stett charged me for the install of the sim, and has been inside it multiple times trying to verify the wires are right without charging me extra, but he's done doing that for free. I was in it last night but Stett removed the resistors after the car threw 0030 with those in. I'll get back in there once I have the resistors, I'll check every wire. If I have to I'll break out my camera and the macro lens and get good shots and send those to you. But give me some more info before I get back in there. Also, exactly one minute after you sent me an e-mail stating: "The 02 SIM makes it so this signal does not occur at all. Like I have said a few times before. If it was catless or catted or you had little lemons in there. The 02 SIM stops the signal from the 02 Sensors...." I responded with: "All four O2 sensors? This is a different code than the 420 and 430 codes you mentioned." It took you 11.5 hours to get back to me and I sent you the other code beforehand which is what you responded to in the first place. And I still don't know the answer to this question! And consider the aforementioned problems with getting accurate shipping information and shipping charges refunded along with other issues, no, your service hasn't been 100%. I should have the code reader late next week. That will help. I'm making an effort.
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03-19-2009, 08:24 AM	#83
M3Newbie88 Brigadier General 137 Rep 4,053 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Canada iTrader: (5)	Just going to chim in on this as I've been pming KeithLM.. Based on this conversation "My car has been in the shop 5 different times for this. I've lost a whole day of work and half my Saturday. I've invested a lot of time and money in trying to make this happen. It's supposed to be a fairly straightforward bolt on. Can an April '08 car really have such drastic manufacturing variations that it's so much more trouble than everyone else's car? You seem to be the only person with this many issues. I would know since I handle it anytime there is this much of an issue. I mean we have sent out hundreds upon hundreds of products to members on this forum alone...I don't see anything like this on here opposed to minor issues? This is my last public reply too your posts. If you want to continue here that is fine. I will continue to provide you with quality service, and help in anyway we can. Thanks" I've also had alot of problems with the downpipes as I had another thread going but got tired about all this... I've sinced removed my downpipes and indeed I can tell you fitment on these catted DPs are no good.. I paid the highest premium since I got the catted coated dps to get something that did not fit and because to make it fit some of the coating is removed.. second of all the codes I got.. yes they sent me an o2 sim for free which corrected 2 but then there was a third that they had no idea what it was.. but just accusing it to be related to boost creep or wrong installation.. Final result.. removed.. car runs better then ever.. no codes.. would love a refund but highly doubt it.. Reference to one of my threads about one of the problems I have: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234455 P.S. I do believe that their service is very good no doubt about it but fitment is usually an issue (intake included).. i've praised their products which you can find on the forum but the downpipes were a disappointment.. had problems from the first day they were installed... maybe its my car.. maybe its not.. dunno.. Last edited by M3Newbie88; 03-19-2009 at 11:17 AM..
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03-19-2009, 09:33 AM	#85
My135 Lieutenant Colonel 85 Rep 1,609 Posts Drives: Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0)	Like what he said, he was not trying to slam RR. He just want to get help and finish the business and move on. In this case, I think RR should send some one to go on-site and figure out what is wrong. I know this cause RR some money, but it sure can save their reputation as one of the top vendors. Who know, may be the part was bad just like our HPFP. __________________ 7/08 135 Coupe, Crimson Red, 6 SP, Sport, Taupe Lette/Aluminum. Performance Mods: JB4 on Map 5, BMS DP Fix V3, Injen polished intake, AR Catless DP, Maddad resonated mid-pipes, aFe exhaust polished tips, ST Suspension Coil Over and Hotchkis front sway bar. Others: BMS OCC, BT Scanner, Mud Flap. Next Mods: AA Front Strut Brace.
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