M3 front control arms (Upper and lower) - A couple of $hundred less than everywhere

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I am leaning toward buying the parts from my bmw dealer. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Same experience that SteveAZ has had here, since i last mentioned i've done a couple thousand miles or so, lowered on coilovers, FSB, control arms

no strange noises, feels exactly the same as when it was installed

no visual damage to any components

i'll be taking it all apart in 2-3 months so i'll take some pictures of it all for you guys, 5000mi or so in depth report .

i think i might even get it all powdercoated for shiny's haha.

[flinchy]

has anyone else experienced much heavier steering after installing these?

not a complaint, just curious?

[John_01]

Yes. The steering is a bit heavier, but importantly its more tactile and gives more feedback. That's something I'm extremely happy about, because I thought the steering was imprecise before doing the mod.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by flinchy

has anyone else experienced much heavier steering after installing these?

not a complaint, just curious?

Yes, I have seen 1Addict member's report that the steering does indeed feel slightly heavier than before.

I wonder what the steering would feel like if one also installed the 1M tie rods. ?

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Yes, I have seen 1Addict member's report that the steering does indeed feel slightly heavier than before.

I wonder what the steering would feel like if one also installed the 1M tie rods. ?

ummm don't believe they'd fit, since the steering rack end of the 1M tie rod i believe is different

soo.. more 'i wonder how it would feel with the 'M' steering rack

which is a MUCH quicker ratio... so, it would feel REALLY fast ahaha

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by John_01

Yes. The steering is a bit heavier, but importantly its more tactile and gives more feedback. That's something I'm extremely happy about, because I thought the steering was imprecise before doing the mod.

thought it wasn't my imagination!

i actually like it when i'm not in a bad mood (I was last night lol)

it'sa GOOD weight, makes it feel like.. well more like how much the car weighs really

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I am leaning toward buying the parts from my bmw dealer. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

With countless experiences with OEM vs OE, get the OE parts at the dealer.

[RimasRS]

Getting back this thread with question.

On stock 135i which rear rods can I upgrade w/o upgrading camber/spring link???

[froop]

Originally Posted by RimasRS

Getting back this thread with question.

On stock 135i which rear rods can I upgrade w/o upgrading camber/spring link???

There are 5 arms in total. The 2 upper arms, upper camber link and the other one (tension arm maybe?), are the ones that you can swap over easily. The rear M3 toe arm cannot be swapped as it is too long for non-M cars. You can purchase aftermarket adjustable rear toe arms from HPA or other vendors. The trailing arm is the same for non-M and M cars and lastly the lower camber link is the one that the strut and spring are mounted on. This is the one that would require a 1M/M3 rear strut to be compatible.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I wonder what the steering would feel like if one also installed the 1M tie rods. ?

Tie rods wouldn't affect the geometry (for given alignment settings), and there's no bushings (just the ball joint) so why would steering feel be changed?

[Freon]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

The OE (BMW) vs OEM (aftermarket) argument is something I brought up pages ago. There is a difference. What that difference is... we will not know until these parts get some miles on them and wear out or fail.

Dackel, you have no evidence to make such a pronouncement. There is quite a bit of evidence now, and the only difference shown is the M logo has been ground off. There's no evidence they are "seconds" or failed any level of quality control.

It's not exactly new for the OEMs to sell parts going "around" the brand.

If you have proof, please by all means, put it out there. I think you're making a lot of baseless assertions and spreading FUD in spite of what we do know about these parts. I've seen you do this before as well with the Bosch plugs. I just don't get it. You just cannot back your claims up.

[Ginger_Extract]

Originally Posted by Freon

Dackel, you have no evidence to make such a pronouncement. There is quite a bit of evidence now, and the only difference shown is the M logo has been ground off. There's no evidence they are "seconds" or failed any level of quality control.

It's not exactly new for the OEMs to sell parts going "around" the brand.

If you have proof, please by all means, put it out there. I think you're making a lot of baseless assertions and spreading FUD in spite of what we do know about these parts. I've seen you do this before as well with the Bosch plugs. I just don't get it. You just cannot back your claims up.

Agreed. I'm in the Insurance industry (with a VERY reputable company), and we use OE replacement parts as opposed to OEM, ALL THE TIME. Our literature breaks down the details of OE v. OEM and how well OE parts can be certified. When I do this mod, I will be going with the TRW parts, worry-free over here.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Freon

Dackel, you have no evidence to make such a pronouncement. There is quite a bit of evidence now, and the only difference shown is the M logo has been ground off. There's no evidence they are "seconds" or failed any level of quality control.

It's not exactly new for the OEMs to sell parts going "around" the brand.

If you have proof, please by all means, put it out there. I think you're making a lot of baseless assertions and spreading FUD in spite of what we do know about these parts. I've seen you do this before as well with the Bosch plugs. I just don't get it. You just cannot back your claims up.

My Indy (bimmerworks in west Chester, pa-- awesome shop) refuses to install own parts that people bring-- only oe. They got tired of being blamed for hardware issues. Speaks volumes, IMO.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Tie rods wouldn't affect the geometry (for given alignment settings), and there's no bushings (just the ball joint) so why would steering feel be changed?

M and non-M tie rods have the same part numbers/fitment AFAIK.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Freon

Dackel, you have no evidence to make such a pronouncement. There is quite a bit of evidence now, and the only difference shown is the M logo has been ground off. There's no evidence they are "seconds" or failed any level of quality control.

Lets talk in the hypothetical...

When a parts supplier makes "widgets" for a big automobile company and say 30% of those "widgets" fail to meet the automobile manufacture's design criteria... What do you think happens to all those parts that did not meet the OE design specs? They get sold as OEM parts - they are not gonna throw "almost" good parts away! Sometimes the company's name even gets grounded off the casting.

I have no proof how well these TRW parts hold up - BUT I don't want to be testing them on MY car. Especially for something as critical as a suspension piece. I know from personal experience that I will only use OE (BMW) parts. That goes for suspension parts and even water pumps - most any part for my car I will only buy at my dealership. I have learned my lesson well - thru the years of German car ownership AND maintenance. YOU can use what ever part you like. Just don't say that an OEM (aftermarket) part is the same as a OE (BMW) part.

I have seen this before with Brembo brakes in my Porsche days. Everyone would say its the same part just not in the Porsche parts box. NOOP! There IS a difference. Whether the average customer will "see" that difference is another topic.

As for the Insurance industry (statement above) @Ginger_Extract... I think it is criminal to insure a car... and yet when the time comes to repair said car back to factory specs... you guys use or will only pay for cheap Chinese OEM parts. I would never put up with that. My car was made in Germany... and I want German spec'd parts used on it. Thats all I am gonna say on that subject.

@Obioban - I total can see why your indi will not deal with OEM (seconds) parts.

[Ginger_Extract]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

As for the Insurance industry (statement above) @Ginger_Extract... I think it is criminal to insure a car... and yet when the time comes to repair said car back to factory specs... you guys use or will only pay for cheap Chinese OEM parts. I would never put up with that. My car was made in Germany... and I want German spec'd parts used on it. Thats all I am gonna say on that subject.

And that decision, made by the customer, is honored. However, more often than not, customers choose the non-OEM parts and go with the "Opt-OE" as part prices are lessoned, and in an at-fault accident, saves them on the premium increases. To assume that an Opt-OE, or non-OEM part is all China-bay parts is short sighted. Also, for any Insururer worth their salt, they will warranty all Opt-OE, and non-OEM parts for the life of the vehicle. An OEM part from BMW would have no such standing behind it when it comes to repairs as the responsibility falls back to BMW.
Some information to think about, when discussing OEM v. OE parts. Also, thanks for implying that the work of hundreds of thousands of people, along with myself is "criminal".

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract

And that decision, made by the customer, is honored...

I do not think most insurer's "realize" they have the "right" to specify what kind of parts will be used when rebuilding their crashed car.

I am sure you and your company are on the up and up. I was just trying to make a point. I hope you did not take it personally.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Lets talk in the hypothetical...

When a parts supplier makes "widgets" for a big automobile company and say 30% of those "widgets" fail to meet the automobile manufacture's design criteria... What do you think happens to all those parts that did not meet the OE design specs? They get sold as OEM parts - they are not gonna throw "almost" good parts away! Sometimes the company's name even gets grounded off the casting.

I have no proof how well these TRW parts hold up - BUT I don't want to be testing them on MY car. Especially for something as critical as a suspension piece. I know from personal experience that I will only use OE (BMW) parts. That goes for suspension parts and even water pumps - most any part for my car I will only buy at my dealership. I have learned my lesson well - thru the years of German car ownership AND maintenance. YOU can use what ever part you like. Just don't say that an OEM (aftermarket) part is the same as a OE (BMW) part.

I have seen this before with Brembo brakes in my Porsche days. Everyone would say its the same part just not in the Porsche parts box. NOOP! There IS a difference. Whether the average customer will "see" that difference is another topic.

As for the Insurance industry (statement above) @Ginger_Extract... I think it is criminal to insure a car... and yet when the time comes to repair said car back to factory specs... you guys use or will only pay for cheap Chinese OEM parts. I would never put up with that. My car was made in Germany... and I want German spec'd parts used on it. Thats all I am gonna say on that subject.

@Obioban - I total can see why your indi will not deal with OEM (seconds) parts.

I completely understand where you're coming from.

But, I already have emails stating they're not factory seconds, and they meet all standards and specifications... They simply make more money selling lower volume stuff as %profit.. Boosts the bottom line.

there's enough people running these to trust their strength and performance, mine are absolutely perfect

BMR here in australia has sold quite a lot of sets locally, with no complaints.

with parts like these, you have to remember, 'not quite meeting spec' can KILL people.. there's no 'not quite at spec'.. there's 'batch is up to standard' or 'batch gets recycled or thrown away' simple.

and the way you say 'OEM (aftermarket)'.. no, it's just not sold to BMW then to the consumer...

there's nothing magical that happens between the factory and it getting sent to BMW to get to you... well.. unless you count a markup as 'magic'

and the 'ground off logo' is simply because they can't legally sell it without grinding off the logo no matter what.

FWIW: ~20,000km on my own set, and i've visually inspected them and the bushes... they may as well still be new for all it matters haha

Besides, 30% would be WAY too high a failure rate, even 5-10% is unfeasible.. and wouldn't be able to keep up reasonable supply all over the world in OEM items.

and lastly, do you think such a company as TRW would risk their name and future business selling potentially defective goods?... enough bad reports and they'd lose future contracts, like said BMW M3 control arm production.


ED: and for the 'even water pumps' comment... well when you're not even guaranteed to crack 60k miles on an OEBMW one, there's absolutely no harm in going a cheaper third party or OEM imo :P

>

Originally Posted by Obioban

My Indy (bimmerworks in west Chester, pa-- awesome shop) refuses to install own parts that people bring-- only oe. They got tired of being blamed for hardware issues. Speaks volumes, IMO.

so even if you bring in your own BMW genuine part they won't install it? that's terrible

learn to take a tough stance on stuff and have better documentation... rather than become a terrible workshop.

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by flinchy

Besides, 30% would be WAY too high a failure rate, even 5-10% is unfeasible.. and wouldn't be able to keep up reasonable supply all over the world in OEM items.

I think a far more likely scenario is that someone at TRW said "Hey, BMW just ordered 5000 widgets. You know, we could manufacture 10000 widgets at our highly efficient German manufacturing plant for not much more than it would take to make 5000, sell the excess on the OEM market and near double our profits. Of course, we would have to grind off any BMW branding as it's illegal for us at TRW to use trademarks we don't own."

[RimasRS]

Originally Posted by froop

There are 5 arms in total. The 2 upper arms, upper camber link and the other one (tension arm maybe?), are the ones that you can swap over easily. The rear M3 toe arm cannot be swapped as it is too long for non-M cars. You can purchase aftermarket adjustable rear toe arms from HPA or other vendors. The trailing arm is the same for non-M and M cars and lastly the lower camber link is the one that the strut and spring are mounted on. This is the one that would require a 1M/M3 rear strut to be compatible.

Thanks... Funny thing that rear 4 rods is more expensive than front...

[froop]

Originally Posted by RimasRS

Thanks... Funny thing that rear 4 rods is more expensive than front...

No problem! Even more funny that they're actually also much smaller in size with a more simplistic design and also don't even include the fifth part (headlight adjuster rod).

[yawn]

Originally Posted by froop

No problem! Even more funny that they're actually also much smaller in size with a more simplistic design and also don't even include the fifth part (headlight adjuster rod).

Actually, my shop just zip tied it for me. I could be wrong, but from what I understand, the headlight adjusting rod that actually fits properly is the one from Harold - it's actually custom made. I got mine from a kit that was sold as an M3 kit, but my shop told me its the same as what I've already got in my car - go figure So zip-tie it became.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong though...