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      09-14-2015, 10:45 PM   #1
smq42
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Brake fluid bleeding and air bubbles!

I swapped out my pads and bled my brake fluid today (in preparation for track next wknd). E82 1M.

I noticed a lot of air coming out the left rear and left front but no air from the right rear or right front. Does this make sense--that only one side has air bubbles in it? I would think the left and right sides would have different connections to the master cylinder and maybe the right sided brake line had air in it???
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      09-15-2015, 10:58 AM   #2
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I've bled my brakes and the bubbles decide which side to come out of. It's completely random. I don't think there's any problem with that. But I'm not a brake expert.
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      09-15-2015, 11:35 AM   #3
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a couple of hints;

bleeding (follow the suggested but usually)

furthest from the cylinder, back to the closest, when bleeding, put some grease on the nipples to stop air going back in again, DO NOT push the pedal aggressively and ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FLOOR

I could go into it more detail, but ask away

try it again see how it goes and holla back

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I h8 bleeding brakes for this very reason !

Quote:
Originally Posted by smq42 View Post
I swapped out my pads and bled my brake fluid today (in preparation for track next wknd). E82 1M.

I noticed a lot of air coming out the left rear and left front but no air from the right rear or right front. Does this make sense--that only one side has air bubbles in it? I would think the left and right sides would have different connections to the master cylinder and maybe the right sided brake line had air in it???
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      09-16-2015, 05:09 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaye944
a couple of hints;

bleeding (follow the suggested but usually)

furthest from the cylinder, back to the closest, when bleeding, put some grease on the nipples to stop air going back in again, DO NOT push the pedal aggressively and ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FLOOR

I could go into it more detail, but ask away

try it again see how it goes and holla back

BTW
I h8 bleeding brakes for this very reason !

Quote:
Originally Posted by smq42 View Post
I swapped out my pads and bled my brake fluid today (in preparation for track next wknd). E82 1M.

I noticed a lot of air coming out the left rear and left front but no air from the right rear or right front. Does this make sense--that only one side has air bubbles in it? I would think the left and right sides would have different connections to the master cylinder and maybe the right sided brake line had air in it???
Grease on the brake nipples is a good idea. I bet the connection wasn't perfect and air got into the outlet line through there. Thx.
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      09-16-2015, 02:38 PM   #5
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For reference I was bleeding mine on Friday before I went to Mid Ohio and noticed a fair amount of bubbles out of the LF as compared to the rest. FWIW I use a pressure bleeder, works great and keeps it to a one person affair. Pedal was solid as new after those bubbles went out.

I normally do a full flush once a year using 1000ml of Motul RBF600 and a bleed before each track event with about 500ml.
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      09-16-2015, 10:56 PM   #6
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My advice would be to use a pressure bleeder instead of the 2 man method.

Alternatively if you have a $25 ebay dcan cable you can bleed using INPA or ISTA, it bleeds the DSC pump and you can do all corners of the car. Can get a firmer pedal since a pressure bleeder or 2 man method can't bleed the pump.
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      09-17-2015, 07:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl
My advice would be to use a pressure bleeder instead of the 2 man method.

Alternatively if you have a $25 ebay dcan cable you can bleed using INPA or ISTA, it bleeds the DSC pump and you can do all corners of the car. Can get a firmer pedal since a pressure bleeder or 2 man method can't bleed the pump.
I'm using the power bleeder and the pedal feel is a little spongy after that last bleed with air.--but,I'm pretty sure I got all the air out. Hard to tell if it's fluid as I had also swapped to older worn pads.

What are INPA & ISTA?
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      09-20-2015, 11:37 PM   #8
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INPA (ISTA is just the newer version) are the service software tools used for diagnostics. Eg reading codes, calibrating units, output testing etc.

BMW Standard tools isn't easy to install or easy to use but the awesome functionality can't be beat. The software is available on the interwebs and can be used with a $25 ebay cable

This thread can be used to get your started
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=918608
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      09-23-2015, 11:39 PM   #9
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If you don't have a spongy pedal and you are getting lots of air bubble, they are likely just air going around the threaded portion of the bleeder screw and coming up the bleeder.
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      09-28-2015, 09:49 AM   #10
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One quick tip that has not been mentioned is to ensure that the tubing end is submerged into fluid in your purge bottle. It will help prevent air getting sucked back into your bleed screw.

I found that using the max PSI pressure indicated on the Motive Pressure (20 PSI), also helps. 10 PSI will not completely push out air bubbles.

I prefer use the pressure bleeder as an air pressure unit. I keep adding fresh fluid in the vehicle's brake fluid reservoir, when I approach the MIN level setting. A little more work, but no mess, and no injection or air pockets and liquid into the reservoir.
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      09-28-2015, 11:53 AM   #11
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Low pressure or gravity bleeding can take away some of the issues with sucking air back into the system.
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      09-28-2015, 04:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
If you don't have a spongy pedal and you are getting lots of air bubble, they are likely just air going around the threaded portion of the bleeder screw and coming up the bleeder.
Agreed. Some thread sealing compound on the bleeder screws helps here (e.g. Loctite PST or Loctite 567 are pretty good choices). The column of fluid in your bleeder hose creates a syphon suction at the bleeder screw and tends to pull air past the threads. A steady trail of bubbles is a dead give-away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
Low pressure or gravity bleeding can take away some of the issues with sucking air back into the system.
I agree with this too. Simply opening the bleeder screw and letting gravity move the fluid through the system works really well to fill a caliper that has been removed for servicing. It keeps the fluid turbulence low and minimizes air entrainment in the fluid. It works very slowly, but well. I follow up with pressure bleeding or pedal bleeding once everything is basically full and I am not worried about aerating the fluid in the caliper.
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      09-28-2015, 04:26 PM   #13
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I did start out with a lowish 10 PSI to get the empty calipers primed, but found that I still had air in the system. Did another couple of rounds of road tests and bleeds until I got no more air bubbles. I increased the PSI pressure each time. I used a rubber mallet to tap the calipers while bleeding. I eventually had no more bubbles, but I can still feal the pedal sink a little lower when I get into the ABS zone.

Is it too late to try gravity bleeding as you mentioned, and will I get a firmer pedal or a pedal which grabs a little bit higher?
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Last edited by dcaron9999; 10-01-2015 at 08:45 AM..
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      09-28-2015, 05:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
One quick tip that has not been mentioned is to ensure that the tubing end is submerged into fluid in your purge bottle. It will help prevent air getting sucked back into your bleed screw.

I found that using the max PSI pressure indicated on the Motive Pressure (20 PSI), also helps. 10 PSI will not completely push out air bubbles.

I prefer use the pressure bleeder as an air pressure unit. I keep adding fresh fluid in the vehicle's brake fluid reservoir, when I approach the MIN level setting. A little more work, but no mess, and no injection or air pockets and liquid into the reservoir.
I used to use this method on my previous car with good results. Will also work on the BRAKES of these BMWs just fine. Its a good way of not having to pour the unused brake fluid back into the container (and possibly contaminating it)

But do not use this method for bleeding the clutch! You must fill the pressure bleeder with fluid and keep the fluid level maxed out at all times. Theres a plastic divider in the brake reservoir that is very high up. This means the clutch can run dry if the fluid level drops below the divider. The reservior will look like its got plenty of fluid but the clutch side will just drain and the divider will prevent any fluid from maintaining the clutch level. I had to learn this the hard way
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      09-29-2015, 01:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post
Agreed. Some thread sealing compound on the bleeder screws helps here (e.g. Loctite PST or Loctite 567 are pretty good choices). The column of fluid in your bleeder hose creates a syphon suction at the bleeder screw and tends to pull air past the threads. A steady trail of bubbles is a dead give-away.



I agree with this too. Simply opening the bleeder screw and letting gravity move the fluid through the system works really well to fill a caliper that has been removed for servicing. It keeps the fluid turbulence low and minimizes air entrainment in the fluid. It works very slowly, but well. I follow up with pressure bleeding or pedal bleeding once everything is basically full and I am not worried about aerating the fluid in the caliper.
If I am working alone, I love using gravity bleeding. The slow bleeding time gives me the time to double check all my work or just work on other things.
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      10-01-2015, 08:50 AM   #16
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Thanks guys. Will give gravity bleeding a try, and slow pumps of the pedal, once purge tube is dipping in the fluid.

Ive just purchased Russell speed bleeder screws too. Might as well get these, as I was in the process of replacing one of my rounded bleed screws, (I used inappropriate wrench at one point)...
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Last edited by dcaron9999; 10-07-2015 at 12:32 PM..
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      10-01-2015, 03:20 PM   #17
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You don't need fancy bleed valves. The power bleeder takes care of that issue since the fluid will be at greater pressure than the atmosphere and won't let air in.
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      10-07-2015, 12:25 PM   #18
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I found that gravity bleeding, slow pedal pumps, and one-man bleed (stick of wood between seat and pedal), offers a better brake pedal feal - one that grabs earlier ...

No more pressure bleed for me, but may give "speed bleeder" valve screws a try ...
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Last edited by dcaron9999; 10-07-2015 at 12:31 PM..
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