BMW 1 series coupe brochure scans!

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by MPower

So why arent you buying those cars? It really makes zero sense to be expecting the 135i to be so lightweight when it is a turbocharged six-cylinder, RWD, four-seat sports coupe hampered by US-crash test laws and the ever present demand for at least a whim of luxury.

Also, your assumption that a "heavy" car cant have good driving dynamics is a bit ridiculous. Consider that the weights of the Porsche 911 Turbo, the Audi R8, the Aston Martin V8 Vantage, etc. are all around 3450 pounds (+/- 25 pounds). It would a real stretch to say that those cars dont have good driving dynamics.

Very well said M Power. A lotus Elise would much better meet his requirements. I've never come in contact with someone who drove a 335i and would prefer a 328i because its "supposedly" more tossable.

[Genericuser1]

Oh you can buy a new MX5 that is about 2,500lbs or if you need 4ish doors get an RX8 Sport, no sunroof and you are at 2,950lbs. For maxium tossability you'll need an elise and for even more but may not be street legal get a Ariel Atom.

If you want bass to the wall tossability and speed spend 10k and get a Hayabusa and blow everything off the road.

[GreenMonster]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

I've never come in contact with someone who drove a 335i and would prefer a 328i because its "supposedly" more tossable.

Let's put 200lbs of ballast in your s2k and see if it's still as enjoyable...

I guess I'm never going to win this argument seeing it's me against the whole forum... Sorry, I guess the idea of a 3000lb car with 300hp is just plain stupid and wouldn't be fun to drive at all :iono:

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by GreenMonster

Let's put 200lbs of ballast in your s2k and see if it's still as enjoyable...

I guess I'm never going to win this argument seeing it's me against the whole forum... Sorry, I guess the idea of a 3000lb car with 300hp is just plain stupid and wouldn't be fun to drive at all :iono:

Sure, the idea of a 3000 pound car with 300 horsepower would be great, but if you do that you have to compromise on something else. The car couldnt be a four-seater, it couldnt have all the safety equipment and would be significantly more expensive. Porsche barely managed to make the Cayman S under 3000 pounds, and that is a car that will cost around 15,000 dollars more than the 135i. The whole point being that sure it would be great, but Im not going to write the car off because of unreal expectations. Minus luggage and driver, the vehicle still weighs ~3250 pounds which isnt Lotus-light but certainly admirable, at least in my opinion.

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by GreenMonster

Let's put 200lbs of ballast in your s2k and see if it's still as enjoyable...

I guess I'm never going to win this argument seeing it's me against the whole forum... Sorry, I guess the idea of a 3000lb car with 300hp is just plain stupid and wouldn't be fun to drive at all :iono:

I'm sure that just about everybody would like the 1er to be lighter and tossibility is definitely a desired trait, but I think that the feeling is that twin turbo 6 will compenstate for the weight and that the driving dynamics will be there (or at least 99% there). If you want 100% you will have to go with some mods or another vehicle.

[jt328i]

Wow, people are really getting worked up with this whole weight issue on this forum. All I know from my limited experience with different cars is that lighter cars are more tossable obviously and in general "more fun". My two current drive curb weights are roughly 2600lb (Integra) and 3200lb (328i) and that's a difference you can feel.

But the Integra is a '95 and cars today have more content, more safety equipment, and in general are built more solidly. That's what customers want and you pay the price, literally and in terms of weight. A 3000lb 128i would be ideal but if it's a couple hundred pounds more, I'll live with it knowing that it's a rock-solid BMW that will last for years.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by GreenMonster

Let's put 200lbs of ballast in your s2k and see if it's still as enjoyable...

I guess I'm never going to win this argument seeing it's me against the whole forum... Sorry, I guess the idea of a 3000lb car with 300hp is just plain stupid and wouldn't be fun to drive at all :iono:

Okay lets try to keep our hats on with this one. If you slap 200 pounds in my s2000 I am GOING to feel it. Not so much in terms of handling but acceleration. I mean I do have a 4cylinder here. (I've done events with a 170lb passenger.) If you want to add 200 pounds thats fine. Just give mive 60more hp to make a nice 300. It will still be really fun! I dont think its you against everyone else. We all would want a 3000lb car with 300ponies. Its just NOT going to happen with a 4 seater car.

[GreenMonster]

Originally Posted by MPower

the whole point being that sure it would be great, but Im not going to write the car off because of unreal expectations. Minus luggage and driver, the vehicle still weighs ~3250 pounds which isnt Lotus-light but certainly admirable, at least in my opinion.

Agreed... and I haven't written the car off yet either... All I'm saying is that I had hoped the car would be lighter then it is. I guess I do have unrealistic expectations, given the hype that the 1-series would be some kind of recreation of the old 2002. We do live in different times now... Heck, the addition of the bumpers and other safety equipment to the 1974 added about 200lbs to the 2002 back then. I do have this "pie in the sky" dream of a 2+2 rwd coupe with globs of power for under $30K. The 1-series is the closest vehicle that meets those criteria, so I guess I shouldn't be complaining.

The 128 might be even lighter then the 135.... I'll take mine with the sunroof delete option :wink:

[Dem1K]

Look, everyone brings up solid arguments/points. The fact of the matter is that this is the best we're gonna get, so we'll have to stick w/ the 3,250lb weight (which, IMO, is completely fine). All we can hope for, as greenie says, is a solid price to back this beast up. Hopefully, the 128i will start at about $27k, and the 135i around $32k. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Also, I read earlier that it was supposedly going to come out Late '07 for the U.S., but now it's Spring '08??

[GreenMonster]

Originally Posted by Dem1K

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Dem, who let you out of AZ ?? Get back there

:biggrin:

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by GreenMonster

Agreed... and I haven't written the car off yet either... All I'm saying is that I had hoped the car would be lighter then it is. I guess I do have unrealistic expectations, given the hype that the 1-series would be some kind of recreation of the old 2002. We do live in different times now... Heck, the addition of the bumpers and other safety equipment to the 1974 added about 200lbs to the 2002 back then. I do have this "pie in the sky" dream of a 2+2 rwd coupe with globs of power for under $30K. The 1-series is the closest vehicle that meets those criteria, so I guess I shouldn't be complaining.

The 128 might be even lighter then the 135.... I'll take mine with the sunroof delete option :wink:

The whole reason I am even interested in this car is b/c my E92 is bigger and heavier than I would like it to be--don't get me wrong, I love my car, I just wish it was a bit smaller and a lot lighter. And my 328i has more than "enough" power--but you add all that together, and the 135 seemed to be exactly what I was looking for. I am a little disappointed that the weight figures aren't a little lower, but I am thinking the N54 will take that concern away, especially with a $1300 Procede V2 and the ~75 HP gains.

I am actually more concerned with the lack of a second oil cooler in some E92 335i's (causing the limp mode glorified in the G37 vs. 335 article) and the N54 fuel pump problems than the overall weight.

[LonghornTX]

Originally Posted by GreenMonster

That's not the point.. the point is that BMW is comparing this to the "tossable" 2002... which was/is a roller skate on rails...

If I have to explain that a tossable vehicle is, then you really wouldn't understand anyways...

It's not about performance figures... The 2002's and early 911's were hardly powerhouses... But what they lacked in hp they more than made up for in being lightweight... and you could throw those cars around corners.

It's not about 1/4 mile times, it's about driving dynamics...

I'm not really interested in the 135... I am considering the 128 because I had hoped it would be a cheap, lightweight, rwd vehicle... With lightweight crossed off the list, I'm hoping that pricing will be attractive... At least I know the 1-series will be rwd, but 1 out of 3 ain't gonna cut for me... 2 out of 3 might tho'. Hopefully I won't be as disappointed with pricing as I am with the weight.

The 2002 and 135i connection made in the marketing literature is far more of a methaphorical connection than an actual comparison in my mind. For their respective time periods they fill pretty similar roles in the market....Much like how the Boxster does what the 550 or 356 did back in the day, all the while weighing some ~700-900lbs more (at least).

I feel like sometimes people get so caught up on statistics and figures, without pausing to experience the car. Using some of the thinking displayed here, I might completely write off the CL-S in your sig because it is no where near as light as the 87' Legend LS 5-speed (or first gen CL) my family had for many years. But in reality, having driven both cars, I would pick the heavier CL-S any day of the week. I say wait till someone ACTUALLY drives the car.....

[Driv3r]

MY dream....This is the IDEAL BMW for me...I dont care THAT much for luxury, just simple clean design. With Performance being a focal point, and BMWs are safe so its perfect....Who else is with me on this?

BTW the Press Videos on the Microsite are amazing...i keep watching that 2nd video...the car is gorgoeus and looks soooo much like the E46 facelifted coupe which i loved. IF priced right, this car will be a MAJOR hit among enthusiasts...

Today i sat in a 335 with XEDE, and it gave me the chills, i can only have wet dreams of that engine in the 1...plus that exhaust note..I cant sleep tonight guys, this keeps going through my head... check the time..

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by Driv3r

MY dream....This is the IDEAL BMW for me...I dont care THAT much for luxury, just simple clean design. With Performance being a focal point, and BMWs are safe so its perfect....Who else is with me on this?

BTW the Press Videos on the Microsite are amazing...i keep watching that 2nd video...the car is gorgoeus and looks soooo much like the E46 facelifted coupe which i loved. IF priced right, this car will be a MAJOR hit among enthusiasts...

Today i sat in a 335 with XEDE, and it gave me the chills, i can only have wet dreams of that engine in the 1...plus that exhaust note..I cant sleep tonight guys, this keeps going through my head... check the time..

Haha, I had the same feeling with a 335 too man!!!

[Devon K]

No doubt it takes precise and sophisticated engineering in conjunction with extensive computer simulation and real-world testing to produce a 3000+ lb car that handles as well as a 2400 lb one, all else being equal, as added mass imposes greater penalties out of the box. When limited money is spent on development, weight takes a greater toll. My first-gen Tiburon is quite agile at speed (until you get up to the cornering limit when FWD understeer kicks in), but the current Tib, which weighs about 500 lbs more, drives like a barge by comparison. Hyundai didn't invest the resources needed in the redesign to compensate properly for the extra weight by upping the sophistication of the design and suspension. However BMW has proved in the past that they can do some incredible work with moderately heavy cars - recent-gen M3s weren't exactly light. No, the 1 series coupe is probably not going to be quite as tossable as a Miata, but it should have other virtues to compensate.

[335i=:)]

3,250lbs +400whp+BMW=Play car that can drive daily FROM HELL!

[LonghornTX]

Originally Posted by Devon K

No doubt it takes precise and sophisticated engineering in conjunction with extensive computer simulation and real-world testing to produce a 3000+ lb car that handles as well as a 2400 lb one, all else being equal, as added mass imposes greater penalties out of the box. When limited money is spent on development, weight takes a greater toll. My first-gen Tiburon is quite agile at speed (until you get up to the cornering limit when FWD understeer kicks in), but the current Tib, which weighs about 500 lbs more, drives like a barge by comparison. Hyundai didn't invest the resources needed in the redesign to compensate properly for the extra weight by upping the sophistication of the design and suspension. However BMW has proved in the past that they can do some incredible work with moderately heavy cars - recent-gen M3s weren't exactly light. No, the 1 series coupe is probably not going to be quite as tossable as a Miata, but it should have other virtues to compensate.

Good post

[dumesday4u]

cant wait for the arrival here in the states :roundel:

[fishbulb]

wow - There are more of us who don't sleep while thinking of twin turbos....we should start a support group.

Anyway, I DO agree with the "drives different than the numbers would lead to believe" stance. Go drive a 116 HP NA miata with it's 185 tires and tell me if it isn't one of the most fun cars ever. Doesn't look like much on paper, but it's a whole different world.

Based on my 335 drive (auto - no sport) I really have no worries about the fun, tossible nature of 135, even in the 34-3500 lbs range.

[mateo]

Thanks for sharing TheONE!!!

-Mateo

[hector]

this probably came up elsewhere but i've been looking and haven't found it so i'll just have to ask; what is the expected weight difference between the 128 and 135 models. the diff. between the 328 and 335 is about 220lbs. but i'm hoping that a 128 without sunroof and M sport package which may both be standard on the 135 could make that difference even more perhaps 300lbs or so??. certainly the 135 will still be way quicker but as a daily driver a 3000lb. 128 could fit my bill. thanks in advance to the weight gurus:smile:.

[02cruzer]

yes, the 02 is light weight. yes it has good crumple zones. but other than that, and seat belt there is no other safety equipment, except its agility.

Now days, 3000 lbs is light for a car after all the safety equipment is added. Practically the only way to get them lighter is to cut stuff out, or make them out of lighter material, ie aluminum, carbon fiber, magnesium (all expensive currently).

So BMW added HP and hopefully has it dialed in correctly to compensate for the weight gain. If you want it lighter, I'm sure a CF hood and trunk will be available (just paint it please).

NOTE: Leftlanenews has this thread linked