BMW 1-series Pic > Clearest shot yet/ June 5

[LonghornTX]

Originally Posted by Devon K

BMW never does retro, and I don't think they are trying to here - see my argument in my previous post for why the sedan look is wasted on this car. I do agree to some extent on the desireability of a large greenhouse though - I have test driven several sports coupes and sportscars lately and all but the Honda/Acura products have overly lowered greenhouses that cut out your view of nearly all of the sky - you feel you are looking out a bunker slit. I can't stand that, it would be a deal-breaker for me.

BMW doesnt do retro? Sorry, but the Mini and Z8 would beg to differ.....

[earemike]

+1 on the photochop

I want one.

[danp]

The front end and the wings look very much like the hatch 1 series, which is fine by me. I don't think that the wings are flared, guess that would be for the ///M if it arrives...but for now the M sport pack looks good on the hatches.

I do agree with the comments that the glasshouse looks a bit frumpy, i.e. 2 door as opposed to coupé, but not sure that there is another small RWD car that I'd rather have (no-one has such great engines / handling / feel good factor IMHO).

I might even go for the hatch pending seeing the official coupé pics, the coupé in the flesh and of course the reviews and a test drive...I'm on the list for an ///M so the coupé might just have to wait until then for me.

[Advevo]

after seeing the coupe pics i might like the 3 doors hatch maybe a little more. But for my final conclusion i need to see the coupe with m pack in real.

3 doors hatch with flared arches and m engine how about that. Lovely.

[danp]

Originally Posted by Advevo

after seeing the coupe pics i might like the 3 doors hatch maybe a little more. But for my final conclusion i need to see the coupe with m pack in real.

3 doors hatch with flared arches and m engine how about that. Lovely.

Agreed, a 3 door ///M1 would pretty much be my ideal car - reasonably practical yet over 200bhp / tonne, RWD and all the rest of the BMW ///M experience.

My wish list (from a while back!) in a car is as follows (in rough order of importance):

1. Power to weight ratio of 200bhp / tonne
2. German or Japanese
3. Small (no bigger than a Mk3 / Mk4 Golf)
4. Safe (strong shell, ABS, airbag or two)
5. 2+2
6. Hatchback
7. Light (ideally 1000/1100 kg, realistically 1300kg)
8. Rear wheel drive
9. Toys (air conditioning and CD player a must, thats about it)
10. Normally aspirated engine

And then things like:

A. Good looks
B. Great handling / fun to drive
C. Manufacturer with motorsport pedigree

///M1 would tick most, if not all of my boxes, the 130i is not far off...but I suspect it's not quite got the zing I'd like (however not tried one yet)...

[Brookside]

Originally Posted by Advevo

after seeing the coupe pics i might like the 3 doors hatch maybe a little more. But for my final conclusion i need to see the coupe with m pack in real.

3 doors hatch with flared arches and m engine how about that. Lovely.

I felt the same way- I've even cast a vote saying I'd rather have the hatch.
But Advevo, it was your photo of the coupe that convinced me 2 doors are the only way to go.

[BForbes]

Some angles of the hatch look good, but in my opinion I think the rear looks straight up nasty. I'd still pick the coupe.

[spudw]

The most recent photos suffer from the same camera angle challenge as the original spy pics (which had many of us questioning whether the the coupe would look like a Mazda3). The photos are close-up and likely taken with a wide angle lense, which in the past has made the car look far more upright and has put emphasis on the greenhouse.

If we compare the more recent shots to Advevo's shots of the blue car, Advevo's, likely taken from a more natual perspective, show a sleeker and less upright car. I understand Devon's perspective on looks, based on the most recent photos, but I think, based on Advevo's photos, the 1er coupe will look much more coupe-like than what is being commented on.

And the wheels on the more recent shots are appauling, which never helps...

[brett8210]

"Try driving a few coupes that are low-slung like the G35 or 911"

The 1 series is not trying to compete with either of these cars. That is what the 3 series is for. To the contrary BMW has NEVER been about creating low slung coupes. They have always made more upright sport sedans, some with 2 and some with 4 doors. This goes back DECADES.

The modern M3, and Z3/Z4 coupe are the only possible exception to this rule and is very recent. BMW's genius is creating cars that are practical and still performance and handling wizards. The E30 did not overpower the competition and it did not look better than the competition. But it did everything well. It handled well, never underpowered, terrific road awareness, and built to last. These are the historic, lasting qualities of BMW, and I hope will be demonstrated in the 1 series.

If you want a Porsche, buy one. But this 1 series will handle better, with better road awareness than your G35. Everyday.

[spudw]

I'm with you, Brett.

And lets not forget the 1er's primary competition: Golf R32, Audi A3, Merc B200 etc. I wouldn't describe any of those as low slung. In fact I can't think of a low-slung 4-seater than I could get my golf bag into anywhere close to the price range we're talking about.

I'd agree with griping if the car was a beast to look at and the G35 was $10K less. But neither of those are the case and the 1er's going to overshadow it's competition, hands-down... It'll be the best small car out there, no question.

[Devon K]

The 1 series is not trying to compete with either of these cars. That is what the 3 series is for. To the contrary BMW has NEVER been about creating low slung coupes. They have always made more upright sport sedans, some with 2 and some with 4 doors. This goes back DECADES.

The modern M3, and Z3/Z4 coupe are the only possible exception to this rule and is very recent. BMW's genius is creating cars that are practical and still performance and handling wizards. The E30 did not overpower the competition and it did not look better than the competition. But it did everything well. It handled well, never underpowered, terrific road awareness, and built to last. These are the historic, lasting qualities of BMW, and I hope will be demonstrated in the 1 series.

If you want a Porsche, buy one. But this 1 series will handle better, with better road awareness than your G35. Everyday.

Just because a company has done something one way for decades doesn't mean it should never consider something different (vis. Porsche going from air- to water-cooled engines).

Anyway, you seem to deliberately avoiding my main point; I was not saying that the G37 or the 911 were direct competition for the 1 series. The fact is that even in the ultra-practical (and ultra-ugly) hatchback style, the rear seats in a 1 series are useless for anyone with limbs. This is a function (as many reviewers have noted) of the rear-wheel drive layout and BMW's mid-forward engine placement to attain a 50/50 weight distribution.

To reiterate, a sedan-like look would be an acceptable tradeoff if the back seats could be made usable that way, but as all the reviewers have pointed out, they clearly are not, so why provide all that useless headroom in the back? Instead, cater to the obvious market for this car - singles and couples after a true sports coupe - and give it a more distinctive coupe-like look that says "performance" ( the rendering on the top of this page) rather than Mazda 3-style "grocery-getter" as seems the case in these photos. BMW would benefit by following the direction taken by Porsche and Infiniti (and many others) and applying it to this sports coupe, to give us a much more visually appealing design with no loss of real-world functionality.

[BForbes]

I see where your coming from Devon, but the more headroom the better. I'd rather my rear passengers(there wont be many)to not feel as if they are in a sardine can. I've been in the back of many coupes and it creeps me out when my head is touching the roof. I think BMW did an alright job with the roofline. Any higher and I probably would have a problem with it.

[Devon K]

Originally Posted by LonghornTX

BMW doesnt do retro? Sorry, but the Mini and Z8 would beg to differ.....

MINI is a different brand, NOT a BMW. No-one would call a Saab a Chevrolet, even though ultimately both are owned by the same holding company. As for the Z8, I don't think most people would consider it retro - just quirky/ugly.

Obviously BWM is trying to retain some family characteristics in the 1 coupe that harken back to earlier models, but the rendering on this web page keeps the family connection as much as the actual 1 series coupe form seen in these photos does. BMW has made low slung coupes before, the 3.0 CSL had a much lower beltine than the 1 series (albeit with a high greenhouse) and of course there was the classic M1...

[Devon K]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

I see where your coming from Devon, but the more headroom the better. I'd rather my rear passengers(there wont be many)to not feel as if they are in a sardine can. I've been in the back of many coupes and it creeps me out when my head is touching the roof. I think BMW did an alright job with the roofline. Any higher and I probably would have a problem with it.

So you are happy to leave back seat "passengers" with bleeding knees, but want them to have plenty of headroom? I understand the desire to do best by your guests, but the logic seems questionable. If the back seats are already intolerable, what difference is a few inches of less headroom going to make? From the reviews and footage I have seen on the 1 series, the back seats will only be useful in emergencies - there are about 1-2 inches between the back of the driver's seat when in a normal driving position and the front edge of the rear seat. Sounds like given your needs for a usable back seat you ought to consider a 3 series coupe...

Some folks might think "well just slide the driver's seat forward and away you go". The problem is that you would have to slide it forward at least 6 inches in the 1 coupe if you are 5'10" or taller - try that on your current car. I have and frankly I think it's so awkward (especially with a manual transmission) it makes driving dangerous.

[BForbes]

Yeah well, the devil is in the details. Every little bit helps. I'd rather them have only bleeding knees than both crazy low headroom AND bleeding knees. If this is a big deal for you then I recommend looking at a 3er coupe perhaps. This proportions of the car is perfect for me. Its the F!$^ing tape and camou thats getting on my nerves.

Btw, the 1er cant possible be worse than a Mini Cooper and I sat in the back of a friends for a good hour and wanst complaining.

[danp]

Originally Posted by Devon K

Just because a company has done something one way for decades doesn't mean it should never consider something different (vis. Porsche going from air- to water-cooled engines).

Anyway, you seem to deliberately avoiding my main point; I was not saying that the G37 or the 911 were direct competition for the 1 series. The fact is that even in the ultra-practical (and ultra-ugly) hatchback style, the rear seats in a 1 series are useless for anyone with limbs. This is a function (as many reviewers have noted) of the rear-wheel drive layout and BMW's mid-forward engine placement to attain a 50/50 weight distribution.

To reiterate, a sedan-like look would be an acceptable tradeoff if the back seats could be made usable that way, but as all the reviewers have pointed out, they clearly are not, so why provide all that useless headroom in the back? Instead, cater to the obvious market for this car - singles and couples after a true sports coupe - and give it a more distinctive coupe-like look that says "performance" ( the rendering on the top of this page) rather than Mazda 3-style "grocery-getter" as seems the case in these photos. BMW would benefit by following the direction taken by Porsche and Infiniti (and many others) and applying it to this sports coupe, to give us a much more visually appealing design with no loss of real-world functionality.

Have you sat in the back of a 1 series or looked at forums such as http://www.babybmw.net/ ?

You would not want a 6 footer behind a 6 footer for too long but they are fine for most people IMHO...you can put the front passenger seat forward if you need more legroom in the back !

[LonghornTX]

Originally Posted by Devon K

Just because a company has done something one way for decades doesn't mean it should never consider something different (vis. Porsche going from air- to water-cooled engines).

Anyway, you seem to deliberately avoiding my main point; I was not saying that the G37 or the 911 were direct competition for the 1 series. The fact is that even in the ultra-practical (and ultra-ugly) hatchback style, the rear seats in a 1 series are useless for anyone with limbs. This is a function (as many reviewers have noted) of the rear-wheel drive layout and BMW's mid-forward engine placement to attain a 50/50 weight distribution.

To reiterate, a sedan-like look would be an acceptable tradeoff if the back seats could be made usable that way, but as all the reviewers have pointed out, they clearly are not, so why provide all that useless headroom in the back? Instead, cater to the obvious market for this car - singles and couples after a true sports coupe - and give it a more distinctive coupe-like look that says "performance" ( the rendering on the top of this page) rather than Mazda 3-style "grocery-getter" as seems the case in these photos. BMW would benefit by following the direction taken by Porsche and Infiniti (and many others) and applying it to this sports coupe, to give us a much more visually appealing design with no loss of real-world functionality.

Have you ever actually sat in a 1-series? The back seat is far from being as bad as you maintain....

I feel that you don't really get what BMW is trying to do with this model. They are not just trying to develop a low slung coupe, they are trying to develop a model that will harken back to some of the most popular and nostalgic models BMW imported to the states (especially in the minds of enthusiasts). Remember, this model is being built SPECIFICALLY for the US market. Thus, BMW sees fit to make the model resemble the E30 and 2002, both 2 door sedans, both with non-coupe like rooflines. As oneshot mentioned, if you don't like the roofline, I would look at a 3 series coupe. Or, if you like Audis, I would check out their new A5/S5. I recently saw it in person and it has quite the aggressive roofline....

[LonghornTX]

Originally Posted by Devon K

MINI is a different brand, NOT a BMW. No-one would call a Saab a Chevrolet, even though ultimately both are owned by the same holding company. As for the Z8, I don't think most people would consider it retro - just quirky/ugly.

Obviously BWM is trying to retain some family characteristics in the 1 coupe that harken back to earlier models, but the rendering on this web page keeps the family connection as much as the actual 1 series coupe form seen in these photos does. BMW has made low slung coupes before, the 3.0 CSL had a much lower beltine than the 1 series (albeit with a high greenhouse) and of course there was the classic M1...

MINI is very close to being a BMW. They are engineered mainly by BMW engineers, the design was penned by the guy who did the original X5, and often times the newest two generations of MINI are referred to as BMW MINI MK1 and MKII. There is no real distinctive corporate structure either for MINI (like with Chevy and Saab). Thus, for all intensive purposes, the MINI is essentially a BMW 'retro' design.

Also, the Z8 is indeed a retro design and just about everyone would agree on that. The Z8 is based on the Z07 concept car which was designed to replicate, in a retro fashion, the popular (and very beautiful) 507 of the late 50s.

Look familiar?

[ghotman906]

has anyone noticed that the front bumper on this car is IDENTICAL to the bumper sketched by huckfeldt in one of his previous renderings?

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by ghotman906

has anyone noticed that the front bumper on this car is IDENTICAL to the bumper sketched by huckfeldt in one of his previous renderings?

Yeah huckfeldt is goooood.

[Brookside]

Various speculations of the next Audi A4 with 3 Huckfeldt's in the center.

[Devon K]

Originally Posted by LonghornTX

Have you ever actually sat in a 1-series? The back seat is far from being as bad as you maintain....

Well, that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it, but every single reviewer of the 1 series I have read - and I have read virtually everything in English out there - would disagree. "Only suitable for pets and young children" "for the limbless" "emergencies only" etc.

I feel that you don't really get what BMW is trying to do with this model. They are not just trying to develop a low slung coupe, they are trying to develop a model that will harken back to some of the most popular and nostalgic models BMW imported to the states (especially in the minds of enthusiasts). Remember, this model is being built SPECIFICALLY for the US market.

You keep repeating this but provide NO evidence (in the form of quotes etc.) to back up this claim. The quote I saw on this forum and elsewhere from a BMW US exec made it clear that they were trying to return to the performance parameters of the earlier models you mention (agility, lower weight, smaller size), but there was no mention made of emulating the look of these earlier models.