BMW toys with the idea of maybe building an F2X 1M (yeah, the hatch)

[Artemis]

picture this M135i f20 hot hatch with more aggressive flares and meanness to it...

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

They are evaluating the M1 for Europe against the European performance hatches. Because based on the Coupe it would be if given the green light only RWD but could be offered in both 3dr and 5dr.

And now I pass the floor to you for comments.

[ShocknAwe]

Ffs Just Make More Coupes! +1 to the HB though, the (E81?) owner in the UK that did the 1M bodywork has such a nice looking car.

[Dackelone]

I think a 1M hatch would make perfect sense for BMW. More parts sharing for the M2 program. Everyone loves the M135i(and M235i coupe for that matter) and a hotter version would make total sense to me. The timing would make sense to bc this would be at the (EOP)end of the F2x production life span.

I really hope once the M2 project finishes, that M can make a CSL(Club Sport version for all us track junkies). BMW really needs to "throw a bone" to its faithful core BMW enthusiasts.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

More parts sharing for the M2 program.

For those following the M2 development: the prototype has recently been spotted with a quad exhaust:
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=994620

[ShocknAwe]

The fender widenings still don't look aggressive enough for an M car IMO, especially the successor to the 1M. Also hard to tell through all that camo but the diffuser looks very plane jane assuming it's final. Hoping they do a lot more work to it to make it special.

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I really hope once the M2 project finishes, that M can make a CSL(Club Sport version for all us track junkies). BMW really needs to "throw a bone" to its faithful core BMW enthusiasts.

Are you referencing a 1M CSL? That would be pretty cool to see.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

The fender widenings still don't look aggressive enough for an M car IMO, especially the successor to the 1M. Also hard to tell through all that camo but the diffuser looks very plane jane assuming it's final. Hoping they do a lot more work to it to make it special.

@Dackelone added the M135i picture to my post #1. Just to catch the drift of the idea of the F2X. The picture is no render of a potential F2X 1M. Just the regular M135i with ///M stripes. You can order one of those (in Europe) as we speak.

[JeffyD]

This actually would'a got me prey-teh jazzed up on excitement since it'd be a dream come true, but I won't do that to myself since I apparently live on the wrong continent to enjoy a good 3-door hatchback done with a proper layout.

[Mdawood]

Originally Posted by JeffyD

This actually would'a got me prey-teh jazzed up on excitement since it'd be a dream come true, but I won't do that to myself since I apparently live on the wrong continent to enjoy a good 3-door hatchback done with a proper layout.

This and an m3 wagon (estate).

[IEDEI]

i've heard info that BMW are doubting whether they really want to introduce a mass production M2 Coupe because of the overlap with the M4. Both are turbocharged 6s now....their weights are the same. BMW make a LOT more money on the M4 than they would on the M2. When push comes to shove, plenty of people would choose a smaller more aggressive looking M2 than the frankly bulbous looking M4. The 1M and the E92 M3 were VERY different in their engines and weights....there was a lot more contrast----but even then BMW did a 'limited edition' car to not interfere with M3 sales and profits.

Perhaps they are investigating a 1M 'hatchback' to try and diffuse this problem? A lot of M4 buyers would likely NOT choose a hatchback instead of a coupe. IF the M2 does make it to production, i wouldn't be surprised if it is a limited edition again......that's the only solution i can think of for the M2 not cannibalizing M4 sales and BMW's profits. Either that OR the M2 will be very expensive.....close to M4 money to ensure BMW make a proper profit on it if sales do go up.

We won't get these hatchbacks in the US anyways....perhaps the US will just get another "limited production" M2?

i'm not too interested either way. I meditated about this issue prior to buying my 1M last month and had decided that no M2 was ever going to capture my imagination the way the 1M did. I could have waited for the M2, but didn't feel there was enough going on here to captivate me....although some of the fender shots look interesting!

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Artemis

@Dackelone added the M135i picture to my post #1. Just to catch the drift of the idea of the F2X. The picture is no render of a potential F2X 1M. Just the regular M135i with ///M stripes. You can order one of those (in Europe) as we speak.

?? My comment was in reference to your post below on the M2 in camouflage with quad exhaust fitted. That was what I was talking about.

Originally Posted by Artemis

For those following the M2 development: the prototype has recently been spotted with a quad exhaust:
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=994620

The picture that is now up on the OP there is obviously a M135i. Good looking car too. Wish we got it in the states.

[cmcdonald]

Originally Posted by Artemis

For those following the M2 development: the prototype has recently been spotted with a quad exhaust:
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=994620

That looks a whole lot like an e9X M3 to me. I guess with BMW up sizing everything that sort of makes sense. Not very aggressive looking, definitely no 1M but definitely not bad either.

[ALEJANDRO]

if the 1M would have been available in hatch, I would have definitely preferred over the coupe.

I was a previous owner of a 120 hatch, --could not get the 130 with the six cylinder motor. What a beautiful car… too bad mine had 5 doors, as opposed to 3.

Anyway, this would be an amazing project with a lot of enthusiasts ready. but they have to make it with bigger tire/wheel size, just like they did for the 1M over the 135

Also, such M hatch would literally render the mercedes hatch useless, but BMW designers would have change the look of headlights, or maybe use the Series 2 front. the front of current series 1 is really ugly in MHO

[Em/1]

Originally Posted by JeffyD

This actually would'a got me prey-teh jazzed up on excitement since it'd be a dream come true, but I won't do that to myself since I apparently live on the wrong continent to enjoy a good 3-door hatchback done with a proper layout.

+1!

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

?? My comment was in reference to your post below on the M2 in camouflage with quad exhaust fitted. That was what I was talking about.

Ok, you mean the M235i Racing flares on these Werkstestwagens...






I too like the idea of flared fenders ala e30 M3 style... but these add on's for the M235i Racing look to unfinished to me. I also do not like that the car doesn't have any "flared" rocker panels. I am sure this is just a working test mule. As we get closer to the SOP we will see the final product styling.

[ShocknAwe]

Precisely. I love the sculpted flared wheel arches on the 1M. The M2 since it's bigger should be even more aggressive, but looking at the M235i and comparing it to the 135i (1er version is more aggressive by far), I just cant help but feel the M2 will be dulled down in every way.

But here's to being positive! lol

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I think a 1M hatch would make perfect sense for BMW. More parts sharing for the M2 program. Everyone loves the M135i(and M235i coupe for that matter) and a hotter version would make total sense to me. The timing would make sense to bc this would be at the (EOP)end of the F2x production life span.

I really hope once the M2 project finishes, that M can make a CSL(Club Sport version for all us track junkies). BMW really needs to "throw a bone" to its faithful core BMW enthusiasts.

+ 1 million.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by ALEJANDRO

if the 1M would have been available in hatch, I would have definitely preferred over the coupe.

I love hatches, but I could never do the 1 series over the coupe unless they address rear visibility- the early 1 series hatch at least sucked. C7 Vette, Ford GT, GT3 RS, BMW 130i, all good cars spoiled by poor visibility, though at least the Porsche is easily fixable. To drive one must first be able to see- take it seriously...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by JeffyD

This actually would'a got me prey-teh jazzed up on excitement since it'd be a dream come true, but I won't do that to myself since I apparently live on the wrong continent to enjoy a good 3-door hatchback done with a proper layout.

LOL. NO DOUBT.

However. Just go look at all the dumb Americans that posted how " ugly" the f20 1 series is and you can see why BMW won't bring the hatches here. Never mind that they sell Mini.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

i've heard info that BMW are doubting whether they really want to introduce a mass production M2 Coupe because of the overlap with the M4. Both are turbocharged 6s now....their weights are the same. BMW make a LOT more money on the M4 than they would on the M2. When push comes to shove, plenty of people would choose a smaller more aggressive looking M2 than the frankly bulbous looking M4. The 1M and the E92 M3 were VERY different in their engines and weights....there was a lot more contrast----but even then BMW did a 'limited edition' car to not interfere with M3 sales and profits.

Perhaps they are investigating a 1M 'hatchback' to try and diffuse this problem? A lot of M4 buyers would likely NOT choose a hatchback instead of a coupe. IF the M2 does make it to production, i wouldn't be surprised if it is a limited edition again......that's the only solution i can think of for the M2 not cannibalizing M4 sales and BMW's profits. Either that OR the M2 will be very expensive.....close to M4 money to ensure BMW make a proper profit on it if sales do go up.

We won't get these hatchbacks in the US anyways....perhaps the US will just get another "limited production" M2?

i'm not too interested either way. I meditated about this issue prior to buying my 1M last month and had decided that no M2 was ever going to capture my imagination the way the 1M did. I could have waited for the M2, but didn't feel there was enough going on here to captivate me....although some of the fender shots look interesting!

BMW would be fools to not bring out an M2.

As the hype around the M4/M3 fades a year to 18 months from now they will need a new benchmark vehicle to promote. In the past it has always been m3 and then the m5. But the 1m changed that...

They could sell tons of 1ms right now if it was still out, so I don't buy that the m4 takes its place.

There is definitely room for an m2 that will be 10-12k less than the m3/m4. (recall 1M at 48K base vs E92 at 59K base... E90 was slightly less at around 56K... also keep in mind that a maxxed out 1M at 54,995 was very close to the base E92 at 59K).

The m4 currently is about 3550 lbs, so it's still quite a bit heavier than a 1m. And the M2 should be at least 100 lbs lighter than the 1m.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

BMW would be fools to not bring out an M2.
As the hype around the M4/M3 fades a year to 18 months from now they will need a new benchmark vehicle to promote. In the past it has always been m3 and then the m5. But the 1m changed that...
They could sell tons of 1ms right now if it was still out, so I don't buy that the m4 takes its place.
There is definitely room for an m2 that will be 10-12k less than the m3/m4. (recall 1M at 48K base vs E92 at 59K base... E90 was slightly less at around 56K... also keep in mind that a maxxed out 1M at 54,995 was very close to the base E92 at 59K).
The m4 currently is about 3550 lbs, so it's still quite a bit heavier than a 1m. And the M2 should be at least 100 lbs lighter than the 1m.

+1

If BMW M lives up to the high expectations (sources quote that there is a buzz of excitement amongst those involved in the M2 development), the M2 might be the best alternative in the BMW portfolio for the discontinued 1M. If BMW pulls the right strings, the M2 has the potential to become a commercial cash cow for BMW. As the 1M experience proved ("we will build 2700 cars" became mid 2012 "we have built 6309 cars"), the market of potential buyers is big.

As a matter of fact, in the eyes of quite some potential buyers (including myself), the M3/M4 is physically a tad 'out of scope'. Can't help it considering 'M3 & M4' a bit like 'Rhino & Hypo': similarities, strong presence, but oh so huge. The 1M is more sort of bulldog or wild boar: compact/nimble and with bulky stance. More Batman than Hulk. More speedboat than yacht.

Given the well-known 1M hype, huge commercial success and slow depreciation, BMW can afford IMHO to set the M2 price closer to M3/M4 territory than expected (but still not at the same level). Different concept - more potential buyers. Price was not really an issue for 1M buyers (though some sceptics had said "a steep price for what - at the end of the day - remains a 1er"). Even if the E9X M3 would have been offered at the same price as the 1M, I would have chosen the 1M. On the other hand, would the 1M have been offered at the same price as the E9X 1M, I would have been in dubio to buy the 1M ...but for sure I would still have skipped the E9X M3 anyway.

Getting the M2 some serious flared fenders à la 1M = heading into the right direction. It ain't no complicated design cue, but it dramatically improves eye-appeal and presence/stance. I heard already a couple of times that some BMW enthusiasts are a tad underwhelmed by the M4 visuals because the fenders are not (visually) as 'flared' as on the M3. Definitely, just stand behind a 993 (4S or Turbo) or a 1M and the following thought might strike you: "hm, it looks like that puppy sports some serious oomph".

Comparison of figures about size and weight:

1M

• Length: 172.4 in / 4380 mm | Width: 71.0 in / 1803 mm | Height: 55.9 in / 1420 mm
• Wheelbase: 104.7 in / 2660 mm | Front Track: 60.7 in / 1541 mm | Rear Track: 60.7 in / 1541 mm
• Curb Weight: 3296 lbs / 1495 kg (all fluids / 90% fuel / no driver) | Weight unladen: 3461 lbs / 1570 kg (+ 68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage)
• Weight Distribution: ± 50:50 (Front: 51.7% | Rear: 48.3%)

M235i

• Length: 174.5 in / 4432 mm | Width: 69.8 in / 1774 mm | Height: 55.8 in / 1418 mm
• Wheelbase: 105.9 in / 2690 mm | Front Track: 59.9 in / 1521 mm | Rear Track: 61.3 in / 1556 mm
• Weight: 3373 bs / 1530 kg
• Weight Distribution: ± 50:50

M3

• Length: 183.9 in / 4671 mm | Width: 73.9 in / 1877 mm | Height: 56.0 in / 1424 mm
• Wheelbase: 110.7 in / 2812 mm | Front Track: 62.1 in / 1579 mm | Rear Track: 63.1 / 1603 mm
• Weight: 3300 lbs / 1497 kg (all fluids / 90% fuel / no driver) | 3466 lbs / 1572 kg (+ 68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage)
• US curb weight (including full fluids and frequently ordered options): 3585 lbs (DCT) | 3530 lbs (Manual)
• Weight Distribution: ± 50:50

M4

• Length: 183.9 in / 4671 mm | Width: 73.6 in / 1870 mm | Height: 54.4 in / 1383 mm
• Wheelbase: 110.7 in / 2812 mm | Front track: 62.1 in / 1579 mm | Rear track: 63.1 / 1603 mm
• Weight: 3300 lbs / 1497 kg (all fluids / 90% fuel / no driver) | 3466 lbs / 1572 kg (+ 68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage)
• US curb weight (including full fluids and frequently ordered options): DCT: 3585 lbs / 1626 kg | Manual: 3530 lbs / 1601 kg
• Weight Distribution: ± 50:50

[ozinaldo]

Artemis, above post: 1M is 4380 mm. length not 4373.

Also, none of the other cars actually have 50/50 weight distribution, more like around 52/48 like the 1M.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

BMW would be fools to not bring out an M2.

As the hype around the M4/M3 fades a year to 18 months from now they will need a new benchmark vehicle to promote. In the past it has always been m3 and then the m5. But the 1m changed that...

They could sell tons of 1ms right now if it was still out, so I don't buy that the m4 takes its place.

There is definitely room for an m2 that will be 10-12k less than the m3/m4. (recall 1M at 48K base vs E92 at 59K base... E90 was slightly less at around 56K... also keep in mind that a maxxed out 1M at 54,995 was very close to the base E92 at 59K).

The m4 currently is about 3550 lbs, so it's still quite a bit heavier than a 1m. And the M2 should be at least 100 lbs lighter than the 1m.

i agree with you about pretty much all which you've stated, BUT you need to remember that profitability is the priority of BMW and not excitement at the moment. BMW are heavily exploring profitability issues these days----hence the new FWD 2-series and the focus on expanding SUVs through every range.

I would like to think an M2 is coming, but will continue to think there is a solid chance it will happen only as a limited edition due to concerns regarding profitability.

In order to understand this idea, you should realise that the E8X 1-series and now the F2X 1 and 2-series have never been very profitable cars for BMW. Their architectures are based on more expensive 3-series platforms and hence the costs of producing them are high and the profits are low. This is, in turn, the reason why the 2-series is switching partially to FWD and that the next generation 1-series will be entirely FWD. Cheaper to make and more profitable.

this is why they are issuing statements like this:
http://www.motoring.com.au/news/pres...billions-44267

"New drivetrain technologies, expanded production in the USA, South America and China, and the development of smaller BMW models and the new MINI range (pictured) have all played a part in eroding the company's profitability."