N52 performance cams

[andrey_gta]

@justpete
are you talking about another shop that you know to make regrinds now?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

@justpete
are you talking about another shop that you know to make regrinds now?

No, not at all. The shop where I get all the work done is lining me up with another shop for race engine work based on being able to get these Riot Racing regrinds. All of the engine work was pending finding Valvetronic compatible performance cams. Thanks for bringing these to everyone's attention, you rock d00d!

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Wow, I'm literally speechless. Where is @Emozoo with his pictures to relay my emotions?

In lieu of the jurassic world trailer dropping today, and this news...and parks and rec is my new favorite Netflix flick:




so let me get this straight, for 450 bucks we get new regrinded camshafts that will give us 12 hp?

I think i might be in

[andrey_gta]

you have to send in your old cams to get $450 price - otherwise its more like 900

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by justpete

The cool part is the shop being lined up to do the work is the one that has built all of Bimmerworld's engines, if I'm understanding the email correctly. I can hear my credit card cursing me already...

I can hear it from here. Did they give you an estimate on time for the swap?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I can hear it from here. Did they give you an estimate on time for the swap?

Not yet, just starting to set it all up. All the work would be done on my engine, we always planned to pull it and kinda thought a decent carbon fiber hood would be available but no such luck.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Wouldn't trust VAC in house made parts.

As to the custom 128i tune, it may indeed make good numbers, but at what cost? Given the number of safety features they were just turning off on my brother's ECU, what's to prevent them from doing that here? This is part of why I hate dynos. Such a narrow slice of information about a much bigger picture.

Let's not jump to conclusions here, all I know for certain with my car is that it's the Active tune, installed by VAC. I have no idea how it was tuned or what else they did. The higher numbers simply suggest another variable; most likely dyno tuning because we've never seen an N51 put down such numbers with stock engine/exhaust components with an off the shelf tune.

Regardless, the car's at 40k miles, a few track days, daily driven, the dyno looks great, and I've never run into an engine/exhaust related problem(big time knock on wood there! ) so I'm thinking they did a very good job

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Emozoo

In lieu of the jurassic world trailer dropping today, and this news...and parks and rec is my new favorite Netflix flick:




so let me get this straight, for 450 bucks we get new regrinded camshafts that will give us 12 hp?

I think i might be in

Such an Epic post. And yeah, Parks and Rec is awesome!

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Chrisar82

Let's not jump to conclusions here, all I know for certain with my car is that it's the Active tune, installed by VAC. I have no idea how it was tuned or what else they did. The higher numbers simply suggest another variable; most likely dyno tuning because we've never seen an N51 put down such numbers with stock engine/exhaust components with an off the shelf tune.

Regardless, the car's at 40k miles, a few track days, daily driven, the dyno looks great, and I've never run into an engine/exhaust related problem(big time knock on wood there! ) so I'm thinking they did a very good job

Ah, it had been implied elsewhere it was a dyno tune.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Ah, it had been implied elsewhere it was a dyno tune.

yea, I will correct that, didn't mean or want anyone to think that was for certain, just a possibility

[justpete]

Word back from VAC is they're not going to do anything for an N52 which is understandable. Glad Andrey_gta turned up the regrind cams!

[andrey_gta]

Lets hope its possible. The photos of n52 inlet cams show them as pretty delicate things. on the other hand the Exhaust cam looks normal with plenty of material on them.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

On my brother's M3 they did their CSL CF intake and a tune. During the various stages of tuning the car kept bogging and such and needed to go back, and they would routinely forget to turn on the rev limiter without mentioning it. The only way he discovered this was during a intake demo when the revs shot well past 8k before he realized there was no limiter. When the tune was finally reasonably sorted, though never great, he discovered that the ITB runners on the intake were cracked from either improper initial install(as done by VAC in house) or poor craftsmanship. At this point he just called it and reverted to stock. Later we discovered via Evolve that the "custom VAC tune" was actually just an Active Autowerks tune that VAC was trying to modify for their own needs and claim was theirs, but clearly didn't comprehend. To be clear, AA is in no way at fault here.

My good friend brought his M5 there for the rod bearing rebuild work the S62 needs around 100k. For whatever reason, the specifics escape me at the moment, the car ended up there for a rather extended stay as they messed up that install as well. What did stick out in my mind is that when my friend went to pick up the car(and keep in mind he never eats/drinks in his car), there were candy wrappers, kids toys, and bits of food littering the interior, and a fairly large scratch in the back of the driver's seat in the leather. Apparently they decided it was ok to use his car for taking the kids to school. Their response? A rather sour "We didn't expect you to get here so soon today". His car also had numerous oil leaks after their "expert" work.

I don't don't hate them like UUC(horrific customer service and craftsmanship) or HPF(who threatened to sue me once), but I really have zero desire to take my car there. The quality of work and professionalism is terrible. The problem is that I don't really have any alternatives to mention aside from Dinan($$$$$). VAC has the position they do because they are one of the few who actually attempt the more involved engine building work and such in the BMW community. Sadly, they just aren't very good at it.

If I was completely set on having the best N52 out there and wanted to push it into the experimental category, I would talk to Steve Dinan. This isn't something I will personally ever do, but you seem set on pushing it to the max(which is awesome).

M5 went back because VAC clogged the oil return lines, resulting in all the engine oil dumping into the intakes.

Also worth mentioning that said m5 had never been eaten in by the owner or his kids... But the owner of vac allowed his kids to crush food into the carpets and seat, and scratch his leather with toys.

Also, you forgot to mention they crashed the front bumper into a wall.

They made none of the above right.

Also worth mentioning that their "custom tune" disabled all knock detection and ran super lean. Great street tune

[justpete]

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

I emailed WestCoastRiots.com
They say its possible with enough interest to try, but unknown result. Should we go for this? I dont see any other option that had reviews in the forums

Exchanged emails with Todd and discussed what may be possible beyond a simple street tune when coupled with a custom race tune leaning out AFR at high revs to increase power where the regrind doesn't. The new cooling system will allow it so it's safe for street use.

Todd can get the cams for the core charge so that's gtg now. What's left to determine is what the profile might be with an increased CR and custom pistons providing greater valve clearance along with a balanced valve train, etc.

VAC will not be doing any of the work.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by justpete

Exchanged emails with Todd and discussed what may be possible beyond a simple street tune when coupled with a custom race tune leaning out AFR at high revs to increase power where the regrind doesn't. The new cooling system will allow it so it's safe for street use.

Todd can get the cams for the core charge so that's gtg now. What's left to determine is what the profile might be with an increased CR and custom pistons providing greater valve clearance along with a balanced valve train, etc.

VAC will not be doing any of the work.

So they are able so source blanks and go from there? Did they say if they are able to work with the hollow camshafts - or if they can actually do the regrind?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

So they are able so source blanks and go from there? Did they say if they are able to work with the hollow camshafts - or if they can actually do the regrind?

They can get OE cams to work with, yes. I'll know for certain later today or Monday. My shop thinks they can find some, haven't asked lately though. New ones aren't that expensive so that'd be the last option.

I made it a point to mention the hollow cam design and unknown base circle limitations but nothing negative was said. We'll see.

[MarkkyyMan]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

On my brother's M3 they did their CSL CF intake and a tune. During the various stages of tuning the car kept bogging and such and needed to go back, and they would routinely forget to turn on the rev limiter without mentioning it. The only way he discovered this was during a intake demo when the revs shot well past 8k before he realized there was no limiter. When the tune was finally reasonably sorted, though never great, he discovered that the ITB runners on the intake were cracked from either improper initial install(as done by VAC in house) or poor craftsmanship. At this point he just called it and reverted to stock. Later we discovered via Evolve that the "custom VAC tune" was actually just an Active Autowerks tune that VAC was trying to modify for their own needs and claim was theirs, but clearly didn't comprehend. To be clear, AA is in no way at fault here.

My good friend brought his M5 there for the rod bearing rebuild work the S62 needs around 100k. For whatever reason, the specifics escape me at the moment, the car ended up there for a rather extended stay as they messed up that install as well. What did stick out in my mind is that when my friend went to pick up the car(and keep in mind he never eats/drinks in his car), there were candy wrappers, kids toys, and bits of food littering the interior, and a fairly large scratch in the back of the driver's seat in the leather. Apparently they decided it was ok to use his car for taking the kids to school. Their response? A rather sour "We didn't expect you to get here so soon today". His car also had numerous oil leaks after their "expert" work.

I don't don't hate them like UUC(horrific customer service and craftsmanship) or HPF(who threatened to sue me once), but I really have zero desire to take my car there. The quality of work and professionalism is terrible. The problem is that I don't really have any alternatives to mention aside from Dinan($$$$$). VAC has the position they do because they are one of the few who actually attempt the more involved engine building work and such in the BMW community. Sadly, they just aren't very good at it.

If I was completely set on having the best N52 out there and wanted to push it into the experimental category, I would talk to Steve Dinan. This isn't something I will personally ever do, but you seem set on pushing it to the max(which is awesome).

You guys(your brother and you) hold onto every word Evolve says like gold.

Dinan=$$$ because they are the best. That's what building and tuning engines for DP gets you.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

On my brother's M3 they did their CSL CF intake and a tune. During the various stages of tuning the car kept bogging and such and needed to go back, and they would routinely forget to turn on the rev limiter without mentioning it. The only way he discovered this was during a intake demo when the revs shot well past 8k before he realized there was no limiter. When the tune was finally reasonably sorted, though never great, he discovered that the ITB runners on the intake were cracked from either improper initial install(as done by VAC in house) or poor craftsmanship. At this point he just called it and reverted to stock. Later we discovered via Evolve that the "custom VAC tune" was actually just an Active Autowerks tune that VAC was trying to modify for their own needs and claim was theirs, but clearly didn't comprehend. To be clear, AA is in no way at fault here.

My good friend brought his M5 there for the rod bearing rebuild work the S62 needs around 100k. For whatever reason, the specifics escape me at the moment, the car ended up there for a rather extended stay as they messed up that install as well. What did stick out in my mind is that when my friend went to pick up the car(and keep in mind he never eats/drinks in his car), there were candy wrappers, kids toys, and bits of food littering the interior, and a fairly large scratch in the back of the driver's seat in the leather. Apparently they decided it was ok to use his car for taking the kids to school. Their response? A rather sour "We didn't expect you to get here so soon today". His car also had numerous oil leaks after their "expert" work.

I don't don't hate them like UUC(horrific customer service and craftsmanship) or HPF(who threatened to sue me once), but I really have zero desire to take my car there. The quality of work and professionalism is terrible. The problem is that I don't really have any alternatives to mention aside from Dinan($$$$$). VAC has the position they do because they are one of the few who actually attempt the more involved engine building work and such in the BMW community. Sadly, they just aren't very good at it.

If I was completely set on having the best N52 out there and wanted to push it into the experimental category, I would talk to Steve Dinan. This isn't something I will personally ever do, but you seem set on pushing it to the max(which is awesome).

Don't know how long ago this was but I heard Mike left VAC few months ago and it hasn't been the same ever since. My experience with VAC products are ok, but I could never get a hold of anyone from service (for the one or two "major" jobs I was considering to bring my car down for).

I agree, UUC is the worst. Terrible customer service, products always on backorder and their in-house products lack serious quality control. Barely reachable by phone and always quick to finger point to user/installer error rather than acknowledge their own fault. I prefer Rogue/VAC's expensive parts over UUC's crap quality products - and that's saying a lot.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

Don't know how long ago this was but I heard Mike left VAC few months ago and it hasn't been the same ever since. My experience with VAC products are ok, but I could never get a hold of anyone from service (for the one or two "major" jobs I was considering to bring my car down for).

I agree, UUC is the worst. Terrible customer service, products always on backorder and their in-house products lack serious quality control. Barely reachable by phone and always quick to finger point to user/installer error rather than acknowledge their own fault. I prefer Rogue/VAC's expensive parts over UUC's crap quality products - and that's saying a lot.

Most of this was a few years ago.

UUC is on a whole other level. Same friend with the M5 had UUC install their clutch in house so they couldn't shuffle blame if it did go south. Obviously, being a UUC product, it failed shortly after install. The amusing part is that when he did call them up they had apparently forgotten that they had done the install and tried to the shift the blame to his "installer". When he pointed that out, their solution was to yell at him.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by justpete

They can get OE cams to work with, yes. I'll know for certain later today or Monday. My shop thinks they can find some, haven't asked lately though. New ones aren't that expensive so that'd be the last option.

I made it a point to mention the hollow cam design and unknown base circle limitations but nothing negative was said. We'll see.

Any word?

[MarkkyyMan]

Hollow Cams+ Regrind= Sounds like trouble..

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan

Hollow Cams+ Regrind= Sounds like trouble..

Not at all. Lifters will compensate for the smaller base circle, it should be fine.