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      04-18-2012, 09:06 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
Yes! NO joke YES!
Your car thanks to USDOT has to have an 80kmile emissions warranty.
So if at 55k miles your cat takes a dump BMW will have to give you a new one for the car. Odds are they will try and charge you for it but....it is warranty.

Now as for what qualifies as emission warranty? This was a very big issue at the NYC auto show according to my good friend who works for Volvo.

Many of the DI engine folks are running around trying to figure out WTF to do. Eventually the carbon will get so bad that the exhaust valve may leak. When it does that it will start passing some very hot gasses and potentially raw fuel into the down pipes which may damage the cat.

And guess who is stuck with the federal requirement to make sure that cat works till 80k miles?

This stinks of a class action law suit. Any lawyer worth his or her salt should be looking at this and licking their lips. Known issue, kept quiet and it will cause increased emissions over the long run of the car?

Now even if there is a law suit you won't get rich and you won't get a new car. What you may get is a recall notice where the car is brought in at a given point and the vales are cleaned.......once. Oh and while you are there they will find at least $500 worth of things wrong with your car that you should fix today!

So who wins? The lawyer wins since they collect a fee from BMW on your behalf. BMW won because well you paid for the car. Your local dealer wins because you had to come over to have said work done on the car and they will talk to you about all the parts wrong with your car or sell you to a new one.
So who loses? I'll give you a hint, he or she is sitting down right now reading this and thinking....SHIT!

The question that needs to be asked is simple, how can the Di diesel's not have this problem? They are running a much more dirty mixture and their overall temperature gradient is significantly lower than ours. So why is it that they are not having the same issues?
sorry to tell you, but running good quality gas and fuel system cleaners will prevent this very very easily on any engines exhaust valves. the exhaust valves fowling has nothing to do with direct injection, it is on any engine on any car of any year, decade, or century. You will get no help from a dealer for carboned up exhaust valves, they will just tell you to run better fuel after billing you for cleaning the valves.
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      04-18-2012, 09:24 AM   #90
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>>good quality gas<<
As in every single gas station in the US that has their gas checked by the DOT once a year?

But yes you are right, at the moment all the dealer and BMW will tell you is that and charge you for a cleaning. But however if a good number of cars are found to have such a buildup of carbon that they are not passing inspection due to emissions faults. Maybe there will be a class action suit. But even then you won't get anything.

Till then run Chevron Techron cleaner, redline the car after it's warmed up every now and again and cross your fingers.
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      04-18-2012, 09:26 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
>>good quality gas<<
As in every single gas station in the US that has their gas checked by the DOT once a year?

But yes you are right, at the moment all the dealer and BMW will tell you is that and charge you for a cleaning. But however if a good number of cars are found to have such a buildup of carbon that they are not passing inspection due to emissions faults. Maybe there will be a class action suit. But even then you won't get anything.

Till then run Chevron Techron cleaner, redline the car after it's warmed up every now and again and cross your fingers.
by good quality I mean the Teir 1 stations not the mom and pop shops that scrape by the quality tests.

The ones with proper additives like techron (spelling?) and etc.
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      04-18-2012, 11:39 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Im really afraid to open mine up at 75K and see the damage
I have a friend with 335i N54 and he cleaned his not long ago. He said it was bad but pretty simple to clean yourself. He had 90k+ miles on his before it got bad enough for him to bother cleaning it. Once you clean it everything will look and run brand new again. Just seems like one of those things that if you want your vehicle to run like new for as long as possible you will clean it yourself or pay a dealer to do it.
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      04-18-2012, 01:40 PM   #93
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Smoking exhaust a symptom?

I've noticed a lot of blue smoke on cold starts recently just for the first "puff". It's definitely smoke as it lingers in the air. Could this be carbon build up? I have hit 37k miles. Seems like it's about that time
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      04-18-2012, 02:40 PM   #94
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I saw one mention of it and would like a bit of clarification....this only effects 135's and not 128's? The only response I saw was that this site was heavily 135 biased.

Thanks
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      04-18-2012, 03:56 PM   #95
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Regarding seafoam, is it something that will help me as a 128 owner, and at 20,080 on the clock is it a preventive maintenance item I should consider doing? I drive 12-14 miles to from work, lots of start/stop, but do air her out on the weekends.

Also, are there any consequences to the use (proper or improper) of seafoam on the 128i engine?
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      04-18-2012, 04:01 PM   #96
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Seafoam is safe, so is mavins mystery oil and hell even Chevron Techron. What you should NOT USE is Burkible 2+2.
That eats away at plastics.
But as others put it, hit Costco, pick up a case of Chevron techron and run it every other tank of gass and cross your fingers.
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      04-18-2012, 05:23 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBimmerxi View Post
I saw one mention of it and would like a bit of clarification....this only effects 135's and not 128's? The only response I saw was that this site was heavily 135 biased.

Thanks
Yes.. You are correct... 128 in naturally aspirated, with port fuel injection. Not affected by carbon buildup on the ports.
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      04-18-2012, 05:42 PM   #98
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Thanks Lefty, as you can see from my signature I keep my cars for a long time so longevity is very important. That even with the modest "128i" I'm still looking at a @45hp increase over our current 325. I'm a firm believer in lower hp does not mean less fun
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      04-19-2012, 06:36 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Dan View Post
I've noticed a lot of blue smoke on cold starts recently just for the first "puff". It's definitely smoke as it lingers in the air. Could this be carbon build up? I have hit 37k miles. Seems like it's about that time
Dan,
This is the symptom of a bad valve stem seal. When the car is turned off, the oil sitting in the top end of the engine slowly leaks through the seal into the combustion camber. When the car is first started, the oil is burnt off resulting in the blue smoke. This can last a couple seconds or longer, but generally stops once the initial oil is burnt off. Unlike bad rings, you seldom (if ever) see smoke when driving or once the cats are warmed up. Bad valve stem seals are generally the result of black sludge building up in the oil around the seals (not to be confused with carbon build up on the back of the valves). The sludge starves the seals of lubrication and they "dry up" for lack of a better word. Sludge is the result of long oil change intervals, short trips where the oil does not reach optimal temp, and excessive idling seen in cabs and police cars. Removing the sludge will often allow the seals to swell and the problem will go away. While several people mention the use of Seafoam for cleaning carbon, it is also very good at melting sludge in the oil. Put a third of a can in your oil about 200 miles before your next oil change. During this time, avoid aggressive driving since Seafoam will lower the viscosity of your oil and you don't want to hurt your turbo bearings. If you do this each time you change your oil, I'd be willing to bet the problem will go away after two or three oil changes. You can do back to back oil changes with the addition of Seafoam to accelerate the cleaning, but I wouldn't recommend leaving the Seafoam in your engine for over 200 miles. Good luck.
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      04-19-2012, 07:21 AM   #100
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Mines an 08 with 13k miles on it, just bought it. I plan on putting 20k highway miles on it a year. Will be interesting to see how it does in 2 years.

Think I might start doing the fuel system cleaner every 7000 miles or so.
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      04-19-2012, 07:25 AM   #101
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Highway driving will elongate the cleaning intervals quite a bit. It's the cars taking short trips without reaching full operating temps where the buildup is most dramatic.
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      04-19-2012, 07:31 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Highway driving will elongate the cleaning intervals quite a bit. It's the cars taking short trips without reaching full operating temps where the buildup is most dramatic.
And (I bet) the long oil change intervals that BMW suggests. This is one more reason to change one's oil sooner than BMW says too. Old thin oil(blow by and thru the PCV) is more likely to end up on your hot intake valves.
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      04-19-2012, 08:43 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pig Farmer View Post
Dan,
This is the symptom of a bad valve stem seal. When the car is turned off, the oil sitting in the top end of the engine slowly leaks through the seal into the combustion camber. When the car is first started, the oil is burnt off resulting in the blue smoke. This can last a couple seconds or longer, but generally stops once the initial oil is burnt off. Unlike bad rings, you seldom (if ever) see smoke when driving or once the cats are warmed up. Bad valve stem seals are generally the result of black sludge building up in the oil around the seals (not to be confused with carbon build up on the back of the valves). The sludge starves the seals of lubrication and they "dry up" for lack of a better word. Sludge is the result of long oil change intervals, short trips where the oil does not reach optimal temp, and excessive idling seen in cabs and police cars. Removing the sludge will often allow the seals to swell and the problem will go away. While several people mention the use of Seafoam for cleaning carbon, it is also very good at melting sludge in the oil. Put a third of a can in your oil about 200 miles before your next oil change. During this time, avoid aggressive driving since Seafoam will lower the viscosity of your oil and you don't want to hurt your turbo bearings. If you do this each time you change your oil, I'd be willing to bet the problem will go away after two or three oil changes. You can do back to back oil changes with the addition of Seafoam to accelerate the cleaning, but I wouldn't recommend leaving the Seafoam in your engine for over 200 miles. Good luck.
Pig Farmer,
Thanks for the clear explanation. Given that I have had the oil changed at the recommended BMW intervals, I'm guessing BMW aren't going to admit this or address it under warranty.
Dan
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      04-19-2012, 02:26 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Highway driving will elongate the cleaning intervals quite a bit. It's the cars taking short trips without reaching full operating temps where the buildup is most dramatic.
My car saw the Highway constantly and carbon build up was horrible.. In FL you rarely go under 45 or 50..
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      04-19-2012, 03:27 PM   #105
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Hi everyone!

im Eli from Israel, a new 135i N55 owner here, probably the only one in Israel with the N55 not counting the 3's and 5's here,

anyway i have been reading about what i am about to face in future services and about the carbon buildup wanted to know if this kind of treatment works for us aswell



as the audi is D.I aswell i thought it could be the same method instead of sandblasting the intake.

what do you guys say?
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      04-19-2012, 06:20 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NurEinser View Post
That is both incredibly lucky(for being under warranty) and unlucky. First confirmed turbos replaced I've seen on here. Makes me wonder how much abuse the TD03s can take.

What mods do you have on the car?
my turbos were replaced a year ago at 46,000 miles under warranty. I'm at 56,000 miles now. (replaced due to the wastegate making a ticking noise)
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      04-19-2012, 09:14 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Dan View Post
I've noticed a lot of blue smoke on cold starts recently just for the first "puff". It's definitely smoke as it lingers in the air. Could this be carbon build up? I have hit 37k miles. Seems like it's about that time
On cold start, not likely.
Cruising about 55mph, then dropping a couple of gears and going WFO, that can help burn off some deposits and indicate build up.
But, you have to be careful in the interpretation of any smoke there as well cause turbo engines tend to have some "smoke" when going WFO.
Many turbo engines run a rich a/f ratio during wide open throttle runs.
The rich mixture helps insure plenty of fuel and no lean condition while the boost is at maximum.

Cold start blue smoke may indicate excessive oil seepage into the combustion chamber after the engine is shut off. If there is a leak it's probably also leaking while running.
Check your spark plugs and look for oily residue or burnt black deposits.
Plug condition can tell you things about your engine and how it's running.

There are charts and pictures you can find on the web. Use those and check your plugs against those picts.
Here is one site that has good picts and description:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/plugs.html

Make sure to see and "read" all six plugs as any oil seepage may only be happening on one or two cylinders.
If your plugs do show oil residue, take it in to the dealer. If you have warranty I'd do it sooner rather than later. If it's nothing, or they say it's nothing, then at least you'll have a record of it if something happens after the warranty. If they do find something, then you'll get it repaired.
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      04-19-2012, 09:25 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorkdog View Post
Regarding seafoam, is it something that will help me as a 128 owner, and at 20,080 on the clock is it a preventive maintenance item I should consider doing? I drive 12-14 miles to from work, lots of start/stop, but do air her out on the weekends.

Also, are there any consequences to the use (proper or improper) of seafoam on the 128i engine?
Some will say that regularly giving your engine a Seafoam or other combustion chamber cleaner will keep your engine cleaner longer.
If you intend to keep your car for a long time and put a lot of miles on it, then regular cleaning is no bad thing.

ALL engines will have some carbon buildup over time, and most buildup happens early in an engines life.
At 20K is a cleaning needed?
I'd check the plugs first to see if everything is good.
If I were keeping a 128i for the long haul I'd wait till around 50K, right before a spark plug change and do it then.
If you are experiencing running problems then of course sooner is better than later.

NA engines tend to run cleaner, internally, compared to turbo engines.
Direct injection combined with boost seems to be getting more attention from carbon buildup.

Do you get a good run time with your oil temp gauge showing nice and hot? 12-13 mile commute isn't that short given overall running time, which allows for heat build up.
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      04-19-2012, 09:37 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
Seafoam is safe, so is mavins mystery oil and hell even Chevron Techron. What you should NOT USE is Burkible 2+2.
That eats away at plastics.
But as others put it, hit Costco, pick up a case of Chevron techron and run it every other tank of gass and cross your fingers.
I've never tried techron straight into the combustion chamber like seafoam.
Seafoam is a known product for that.
Techron is more of an injector cleaner designed to be used mixed in to the gasoline.

Techron is a high tech cleaner, but I'd like to see and read if anyone has actually run it straight into the combustion chamber via vacuum line.
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      04-19-2012, 09:41 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyone View Post
Yes.. You are correct... 128 in naturally aspirated, with port fuel injection. Not affected by carbon buildup on the ports.
ALL engines are and can be affected by carbon buildup.

The difference is how much build up and how long will it take.
And, how much affect will it have on the running condition of the engine.

The problem is greater with DI combined with forced air/increased chamber pressure.
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