$649 MadDad Exhausts - a few still available

[MadMan77]

Damn it Rich! I was trying to not spend any money on my car right now but you are making this very hard.

I cannot wait to hear how this sounds. Now get that new camera out and have some fun.

[MadMan77]

Originally Posted by My135

It looks very good. Will the resonator smooth out or quiet the sound a little bit? Will it add more restriction to flow?

Originally Posted by BMW86

+ 1 Would like to know this

I am sure the resonator will smooth out the sound a bit. As for the other question, Rich said the resonators are a straight through design so they should not restrict flow. I guess Rich needs to confirm that though.

[maddad]

Originally Posted by My135

It looks very good. Will the resonator smooth out or quiet the sound a little bit? Will it add more restriction to flow?

A resonator is really just a mini low restriction muffler. They are typically used when a primary exhaust isn't quiet enough on it's own. Sometimes this is because of packaging...there may only be a given amount of clearance for the man muffler/exhaust so a manufactuer will put a resonator(or two) at other spots in the exhaust stream. Sometimes they are put in locations where they feel they are getting bad resonance inside the cabin..hence the name "resonator" instead of just calling them small mufflers. The resonators we've added are the smallest ones I have every seen, but they are true mini mufflers so they should lower the volume a minor amount over a midpipe with no resonators at all. Traditional straight through resonators are typically 3 times the length of ours or more, but our goal with this midpipe wasn't strictly a mipipe quieter than others(without resonators), we definately wanted a more OEM type look as first priority which is why they are sized similiar to the factory catalytic converters and even staggered the same as the factory catalytic converters. We've always focused on making axleback and catback exhausts that someone might think could be a factory "sport" exhaust. There are other subtle little clues to this effect as well. For instance. We don't mirror polish the T304SS pipe work like most exhausts(the canister has a mild polish but is still has much less "bling" than any others I've seen). That is a dead give away that an exhaust is aftermarket. Our T304SS is clean but it's just a matte grey/silver color that can easily pass an OEM to anyone other than a BMW factory tech. We don't emblaze the exhaust tips with our name for the same reason.

As far as restrictions. Even the traditional larger resonators are insignificant. They are literally straight through cores and don't offer much exhaust gas expansion. Now cut that minor restriction 2/3rds due to the diminitive size of ours and I doubt you'd see any performance difference. We're hitting the dyno Saturday so we'll get some numbers. I have not seen much in the way of stock vs. downpipe back exhaust(and nothing else..no engine management/piggyback ECU, ect.) dyno plots but I know that the 335i with downpipe back exhausts make about 16-17hp to the ground(depending dyno brand and calibration of course). Since I already have our axleback on the car that can contribute slightly as part of the whole setup, I'm hoping to see 10-12hp by the midpipe alone, and can speculate(until we get a bone stock car for dyno and we have a interested semi-local customer lined up for that) that the axleback might be contributing 5-6 to the peak numbers for somewhere around the same #s as the 335i. Bottom line, if I see a 10hp gain that would be inline with what I would expect. Perhaps with proper engine management and dyno tune you eek out a resonable amount more, but with bone stock engine managment I feel 10-12hp from a midpipe is what is real and I'd be quite happy with that. We'll know Saturday.

R.

[kirby135i]

its nice to see someone projecting realistic hp gains with exhausts...unlike some claiming 40hp.

[My135]

Excellent. I would really like to try this out in combination with my aFe exhaust. This would be the first straight through cat-back exhaust set-up that people had tried.

[sbefar01]

Was saving for cp-e resonated, but this is more so what Im looking for, cant wait for dyno's, is pricing around $1200 for the full systems once its complete?

[maddad]

Originally Posted by sbefar01

Was saving for cp-e resonated, but this is more so what Im looking for, cant wait for dyno's, is pricing around $1200 for the full systems once its complete?

You'd be looking at $1249 for a complete downpipe back setup with SS tips. A little more for the black ceramic(+49), and a little more for the carbon fiber(+129). Prices exclude shipping which can vary. Your looking at two fairly large boxes so I'd plan on $50-90 in shipping as well depending on the zip. We're days away from launching our improved website. We've been on the same shopping cart system and version for the past 6 years and way over due for an update. The new system will let you pre-order a full system with all the pricing and shipping computed before you need to put in any CC info. Which brings up a point...

As a general reminder we DO NOT charge your CC when you place an order via our online system. We don't charge your order unless we know the product will be shipping within 1-2 days. There have been a few isolated cases over 6 years where that was extended but due to crazy circumstances but the house rule is you are not charged until we are shipping. There are a few guys waiting for their black ceramic tipped versions to ship while we wait for the tips to be finished at the coater for instance...and they have not been charged. This also extends to our Group Buys/Pre-Orders, Back Orders, ect. In particular with Pre-Orders on new items like the midpipe where there might be serveral weeks before the product is shipped...you are not charged until it ships. We do not expect customers to finance the development of our parts and our business. I'm just throwing this out there now because we should have the pre-order up "real soon now" for the midpipe and I want everyone to know up front, your CC will not be charged a dime until the pipe is shipping. Don't forget though, axleback can ship now(SS on the shelf, ceramic should be shipping Friday, carbon fiber about a week lead time..done on request).

R.

[sbefar01]

Ok, I will be getting this full system once dyno's are posted and its available. 1er owners would essentially be getting the same build quality and power gains as the full cp-e system, only this full system probably operates with less decibels (good thing). Im hoping that JB3 owners might get 18-20hp from this setup. Are you taking orders on a separate group buy thread ONLY or on your website? Thanks.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by sbefar01

Ok, I will be getting this full system once dyno's are posted and its available. 1er owners would essentially be getting the same build quality and power gains as the full cp-e system, only this full system probably operates with less decibels (good thing). Im hoping that JB3 owners might get 18-20hp from this setup. Are you taking orders on a separate group buy thread ONLY or on your website? Thanks.

+ 1 also waiting on dynos

I really like the midpipes design. Is another purpose of the mini resonators to look as if we still have the cats in place? Do other manufacturers midpipes have this?

Also, would love to hear some more sound clips of the full exhaust, at idle, on a roll, in cabin as well as fly bys. I'm leaning more and more towards this exhaust.

[maddad]

Originally Posted by BMW86

+ 1 also waiting on dynos

I really like the midpipes design. Is another purpose of the mini resonators to look as if we still have the cats in place? Do other manufacturers midpipes have this?

Also, would love to hear some more sound clips of the full exhaust, at idle, on a roll, in cabin as well as fly bys. I'm leaning more and more towards this exhaust.

I know it's difficult when these threads get long. All the details get buried 2..3...5 pages back, but your assumptions are exactly correct. The mini-me resonators were desgined from scratch rather than the typically off the shelf unit. Specifically made to look like a metal substrate cat and positioned in the same staggered location of the factory cats . It's an origonal MadDad idea and no other midpipe has this. One of the little details that make a product standout from others. I hate "me too" parts. There is no sense in us releasing just another midpipe the same as others. Our axleback already mates up with other brand midpipes. We want ours to be distictful so that when someone says to you, "why did you get a MadDad", you won't have to hesitate on the reason why and it's not really price(although we're probably the best priced U.S. build brand). It should be because their was a distinct feature that you appreciated over others. Those "cat" looking resonators might just be one of those reasons.

More sound bites/video will be coming soon. It's just real hectic this time of the year. I bought a camera specific for this purpose. I keep saying "today I will get out and grab some more clips" but then it doesn't happen. The nature of things this time of the year. At a minimum I'll bring the camera and post the dyno pulls this coming weekend.

R.

[escobar929]

can you post any side views of the exhaust installed? wanna see how far out the tips stick out

thanks!

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by escobar929

can you post any side views of the exhaust installed? wanna see how far out the tips stick out

thanks!

The following is a pic of the Maddad Axelback installed on my personal ride...and a video as well if that helps.

[escobar929]

^thanks

compared to stock, how far do the tips stick out, kinda hard to tell from that angle

BTW i love your car!

[adrean8j]

Compared to stock roughly the same....the may stick a few mm more but it is really unobtrusive....There are a few pics in my gallery from a similar angle with the stock exhaust...they are the darker pictures out near the water(dont want to fill this thread with pics of my car...LOL).

[escobar929]

To me, the more it sticks out the better (to a certain point), i love how the meistercraft exhaust sounds but hate how the tips look sunken in, specially since i wanna get the Performance diffuser

Thanks!

[maddad]

Someone asked earlier how much the midpipe is going to weigh. I just weighed it in and it's 21.9 pounds so call it 22lbs. I don't see the production piece being much different. I don't know off hand what the factory unit weighs but I'll find out tomorrow when we get it off my car.

R.

[sbefar01]

Yeah, wondering what total weight reduction would be for full system.

[maddad]

No current plans for a 128i setup. At least not in the short term.

Weight, our axleback section and midpipe should combine for 40lbs. I'll give you a total weight of the factory exhaust once I get the factory midpipe off tomorrow. I checked with our local dyno and we are still on for tomorrow morning.

Now to clear up some confusion. What is an axleback, catback, downpipe back on these cars? I've seen some vendors refer to just the axleback section but call it a catback. I've seen some forum members refer to some catbacks that are really Downpipe-backs. Here is the deal. We've always refered to our axleback as an axlback. Why are some vendors referring to certain axleback exhausts at catbacks? Because the start of the exhaust starts before the rear "axle". The term axleback exhaust comes from the fact that "in general" an axleback runs form about the rear axle and replaces the rest of the exhaust up to the tips. The important word here though is "about". Make no mistake...any exhaust that mates to the factory midpipe is an axleback. From a pure marketing perspective it would be much nicer to call it a catback. Now who makes a real "catback". BMW does. The BMW Performance Catback replaces the 'axleback' and it replaces the secondary muffler in the midpipe that some folks call a resonator. Folks..that thing is huge, as big as the axleback muffler. A catback exhaust replaces everything after the last set of cats on a car..just like BMW's Performance Catback does. It cuts out the muffler that is part of the factory midpipe and it replaces the factory axleback section as well. That is a true catback and no one would confuse that system with an axleback. Now on the flip end, I've seen some folks refer to replacement of the midpipe+axleback as a catback. That is not the case either. This is the first car that I've owned were you need to use term "Downpipeback", it's more than a catback. A downpipeback connects with the downpipes and replaces everything else..including deleting the last two factory catalytic conveters, and in doing so actually nets you power. Calling those setups catbacks is really short-changing them because they really are more. When price shopping it's important to know the difference between the setups that are Catbacks and Downpipebacks because Downpipebacks are going to always give you a noticiable power gain over a catback and they will generally be more money as well because there is a lot more length of pipe.

Again, I know lots..maybe even most of you were already well aware of this. I just like to lay this out there because I've been asked the above a number of times over the last year and I see contradictory posts elsewhere. I won't argue who's wright or wrong. You now know our official stance, it's just important to know so when you do your cross shopping and say "hmm..MadDad has an axleback for $649, but I can get a U.S. built catback for $550 elsewhere"...actually you can't...or if you like you can call our axleback a catback as well . Or if saying "I can buy a BMW Performance Catback for a little less than a MadDad Catback"..that would be a mistake too. We don't offer a catback. With the introduction of the soon-to-be-realeased MadDad midpipe, we will offer a Downpipeback setup and that should be compared with other Downpipeback setups if trying to due an apples to apples comparison.

Happy shopping...

R.

[maddad]

Charts are being emailed. I've got a print out I can scan as well. Gain was almost exactly what I thought it would be.. 11lbs/10hp gain with some areas seeing 15lbs or so, from about 3000rpm on. I'm going to go back in a week...run again and then swap my whole stock exhaust back on to see what the big pictures really was. I know this was a Mustang dyno but my numbers are way way low(249hp)...however relative to the midpipe the relative gains are clearly visible. From 2400 RPM on up, the car sounds almost the same inside the cabin which is great. From 1800 to 2300 it's got little bass but not over the top. Much different out side the car, much meaner. I was most surprised though with how similiar it sounded inside the cabin. I'll give more opinion as I drive more this week. I'll post charts as soon as I can but thought I'd just put out a quick post that the gains are exactly what I would have expected. Fitment was spot on as well so we should be able to get this part shipping in January.

R.

[Fireflyer239]

Originally Posted by maddad

No current plans for a 128i setup. At least not in the short term.

I am also seeking to use the Maddad axleback for my 128, so I'm asking you to divert your attention to our cars for a moment. Wouldn't the only difference be that the 128 will require its 1-piece pipe to be cut and then have a flange installed on the existing pipe, or alternately, to have the flange cut off the axleback and then an adapter pipe section installed with clamps?

The routing of pipe appears to be tha same as 135, but without the bolt-together setup of the 135. Meisterschaft (for instance) lists their axleback applications as 128/135, leading me to believe the setups (between 128 and 135) are very similar. In addition, it may sound a bit rowdier on the 128, since our exhaust note is not being muffled by those turbos the other guys are lugging around!

I think that if you offer a 128 application you will sell a few (including overseas where the N/A cars are more common and taken seriously), and the mods neccesary for you to create a kit seem minimal. I purchased the 128 over the 135 because I prefer the purity of the N/A engine and may want to keep this car for a long, long time and prefer to do without the complexity of turbos. I feel that in normal driving this vehicle is more fun because you actually have to "drive" it, rather than just surfing along in 4th gear on the torque, and as such it offers a greater opportunity to hear the rise and fall of the exhaust note as the car is shifted more often. This makes it more of a "driver's car" IMHO, but of course the aftermarket simply goes where the outright speed is, and I understand. I have spent the cash on lightweight Breyton wheels, installed a Hotchkis front anti-sway bar and BMS Powerbox mod. Obviously, I am a serious driver who wants the most from my car, and there are others here on this forum like me.

I love not only the sound of the Maddad, but mostly the fact that you stress a thorough approach to design, quality, no-drone characteristics, and a reasonable but pleasing sound quality. Please look into this - there's not much to it!

At minimum, please advise if a competent shop should be able to make your axleback work on my 128, in a straightforward manner. Thanks.

[maddad]

At a minimum we'd want to change the pipe diameter. A 3" axleback I don't think is the right setup to bolt to the NA motor. 2.5" would be more appropriate. Using an axleback with the same pipe diameter for a univeral 128/135 I think is a mistake..it's a compromise just like an all-season tire is a compromise. I'll start poll to check interest. If we do a 128 system it will be a true 128 exhaust, not just a rehash of the 135i.

R.

[Fireflyer239]

Originally Posted by maddad

At a minimum we'd want to change the pipe diameter. A 3" axleback I don't think is the right setup to bolt to the NA motor. 2.5" would be more appropriate. Using an axleback with the same pipe diameter for a univeral 128/135 I think is a mistake..it's a compromise just like an all-season tire is a compromise. I'll start poll to check interest. If we do a 128 system it will be a true 128 exhaust, not just a rehash of the 135i.

R.

Sounds great, and thanks for always being so responsive in this forum. Forgive my ignorance, I thought that beyond the midpipe, it was mostly about sound only, and that muffler flow capability or axle back pipe diameter wouldn't have much of an effect on power or torque either way.