Attn: Cell phone driver distraction info

[Gogud]

quote from pit1
"iDrive is great guys, don't get me wrong...but please be careful while using it. BMW liberally allows us full control while in motion, don't let that get the best of you"

+1 I drive is a real let down. There are certain types of info that I would like to see displayed at all times. There is not enough user control to customize it and create a new default view. Although more info is available than ever before, it is less accessible than in my e46 and much less than it was in my e36. iDrive has been criticized from the outset yet BMW seems to be in denial when it comes to making it safe to use while actually driving the car.

quote from tbird
Bman6074, if only your point could be enforced. Could you imagine, all drivers on the road actually getting trained in how to handle a vehicle and its capabilities, and based on whether it was a car or truck, etc?

+1000

[MOCKBA]

I notice that any phone call distructs me from driving, so I do not pick up calls. If I see that a call is really importan, I just go off road, park car and talk.

[pit1]

European members, correct me if I'm wrong here. My wife is from the Netherlands, her family has mentioned how difficult and costly it is to acquire a driver's license, requiring mandatory training. From my little experience driving in Europe, the masses seem to have much better car control and skilled negotiation of traffic. This may partly be vehicle dependent.

Our Metro (public transit) system in DC often run comedic propaganda about proper Metro riding Etiquette, anything from vacating a seat for seniors, watching for left baggage, or limiting cell phone conversations. I'd really like to see this type of publicity for the risks of cell phone use while driving.

[tbird]

Pit1, not sure about the Netherlands, but in Germany, they definitely do. Currently on the History Channel, they are doing a documentary on the Autobahn. Drivers in Germany pay $1500 for a license and go through strong driving training. As I mentioned on a previous posting, and hence agreeing with you strenuously, people in American need to realize that "good driving" is not defined by the ability to parallel park. It should be that people have to take a true "Defensive Driving" Course and pass it with an "A" score, or no license.

If people were actually required to respect others and to give a darn about driving, chances are they just might.

[Lester]

For your information, the Legislative Assembly of Ontario carried Bill 118, an amendment to the Highway Traffic Act now bans drivers from using handheld devices with display screens while operating a vehicle on the road.

The ban is in effect as of September 1 2009 and will carry a fine of $500. Demerit points will not be included, but depending upon the violation, police will have the option to also use existing careless driving laws for additional penalties. The bill has undergone several revisions during its consideration, but the new rules of the road will be as follows:

- Holding or using a wireless communication device (a cell phone) or a portable electronic entertainment device (iPod) while driving is prohibited.

- Commercial GPS units along with similar dashboard-mounted devices that provide gauges and displays relating to logistical or navigation uses are fine.

- Using a cell phone or wireless communication device in hands-free mode, as long as you're not holding it during use, is fine.

- Using any device while pulled-over or parked in a way that you are not disrupting traffic, is fine.

- The systems used by Ambulances, Fire Departments, and Law Enforcement are exempt.

[CrazyIvan]

Originally Posted by tbird

Pit1, not sure about the Netherlands, but in Germany, they definitely do. Currently on the History Channel, they are doing a documentary on the Autobahn. Drivers in Germany pay $1500 for a license and go through strong driving training. As I mentioned on a previous posting, and hence agreeing with you strenuously, people in American need to realize that "good driving" is not defined by the ability to parallel park. It should be that people have to take a true "Defensive Driving" Course and pass it with an "A" score, or no license.

If people were actually required to respect others and to give a darn about driving, chances are they just might.

My wife has a german driving license. Was it expensive? Yes. The training was excellent. She is a better driver than 95% of people here ( I mean San Antonio). For one, you can only drive manual transmission when taking a course. You are required to accumulate driving time under various conditions: day/night, rain/snow if available, city, autobahn. All that is required. Even basic skills like controlling oversteer/skid are taught. Add to all this a much better driving culture ( nobody passes on the right, left lane - passing only, people actually know how to use turn signals, and much more) - the end result is a safe driving environment. Maybe here we need to be reminded that driving is a privilege, not the right.

[tbird]

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

My wife has a german driving license. Was it expensive? Yes. The training was excellent. She is a better driver than 95% of people here ( I mean San Antonio). For one, you can only drive manual transmission when taking a course. You are required to accumulate driving time under various conditions: day/night, rain/snow if available, city, autobahn. All that is required. Even basic skills like controlling oversteer/skid are taught. Add to all this a much better driving culture ( nobody passes on the right, left lane - passing only, people actually know how to use turn signals, and much more) - the end result is a safe driving environment. Maybe here we need to be reminded that driving is a privilege, not the right.

Oh God, please stop. You are making me drool!!

IF ONLY we had that here!!

[Simsims]

Not everyone has the "limited brain bandwidth" that they're referring to. Some are more gifted than others. It's like saying well, since not everyone can be do math, and listen to music, let's just ban music while doing math.

What they should also ban, now that they're at it, is:
- make up in car
- eat, drink in car
- talk to anyone in the car
- radio/music
- smoke
- KIDS on the backseats
- old freaks that have 10second reaction times.
- GPS

A while ago an old lady was following me on a local highway around 100km/h, with about 100m distance between us. She had both hands on the wheel, good posture, clearly not talking to anyone, focused on the road. I had to turn left to a roadway on an intersection, and because of oncoming traffic I have to stop, and wait. Our highways here are not the same as US where like highway 95... those are called freeways here in canada. These local highways sometimes don't have splits in lane (since it's 1 lane both ways), so you have to stop the traffic to turn.

Now I knew that lady wasn't going to stop. For 100m she didn't brake at all, and about 10m to my bumper she locks the wheels. Clearly she can see me (12 noon, sunny, clear clear roads, flashers, etc etc)... and thank god I was watching her and quickly moved to the right when she had clearly no intention of slowing down.
Eventually she would've hit me by the time she stopped if I didn't move. But that's a godly SLOW reaction time.

Why do they let those freaks drive, anyway?

[JimD]

A difficult factor is that the degree of attention required for driving and for a cell phone call vary widely. I regularly visit customers by driving up to 6 hours. Several portions of these trips are on interstate highways with little traffic. I need something going on, radio, MP3s (which I play from a GPS, not an ipod but probably not a whole lot better), or talking on the phone. My practice is to avoid making or accepting any calls when I am in traffic. If I have to take the call, I pull over. But if I am on wide open interstate and it is not a call that involves a lot of thought for me, then I will do it while driving. I use either the bluetooth in my car (also through the GPS) or a "jawbone" bluetooth ear piece. I do not have to look at the phone to take a call but have to push a couple buttons to make one. I have to touch the GPS once to take a call - or multiple times to make a call. I think I'm taking some additional risk but I think I also need to stay awake and I am managing my risk reasonably. But I'm sure others would have different thoughts.

But how do you legislate common sense? I see people all the time holding a phone to their ear and driving in traffic. I have no idea how brain intensive their conversation is for them but the fact that they are in traffic seems like too much risk to me. If I am on a trip, and you tell me I can't use my phone, then what stops me from cranking up the music? For me at least, how loud I play music helps to determine how much distraction it is. I keep it where I can talk over it generally but there are a lot of different practices there too.

Hands free doesn't solve the whole issue but seems like a good idea to me. The research seems to clearly show more distraction from pushing keys. But it doesn't totally eliminate risk to use a hands free phone. If I am really having to think on a phone call, I look for an opportunity to pull over for a few minutes.

Maybe the rule should be that if you have a wreck or get a ticket and you were on the cell phone, you get an additional fine/points. That would be a way to provide some additional incentive to use some common sense about phone use while driving. Around town, I think it can generally be ommitted - I rarely do it. On long trips, I am not so sure it is either necessary or reasonable to require a ban on cell phones. Encouraging people to be reasonable about their usage - do it when there isn't a lot of traffic, use hands free phone, pull over if the call is too distracting - seems more appropriate.

I've had callers ask me if I was using hands free when they called me and knew I was on the road. I don't remember questions about traffic but that could be reasonable too. It's mainly up to the driver but remembering to ask this when we are speaking to a driver may help a little too. It might help make the risk more like having the person in the car with you.

Jim

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by imported_mega

are they gonna ban music too? It mentioned ipod

when I talk on the handfree I make a conscious effort to pay attention to the road first, often having to annoy the person calling me, by making them repeat the question

I'm going to play devil's advocate with I-Mega as well. If one is disciplined enough to make driving the overwhelming focus, than he will likely multi-task very well and not put others in danger. I am an ER nurse and multi-tasking is a part of my existence and it's how I make a living. I do agree that IF you are going to use the cell phone while driving, a hands-free system should be mandatory. I've seen too many jack-asses weaving in and out of lanes with no turn-signal because they would be to troubled to shut-the-f-up for a moment and flick the turn signal lever with the hand they're using to hold their phone. At the same time though, I only use the phone when necessary and you'll never find me in a pointless conversation via mobile phone, especially while driving. My point - creating laws to ban ANYTHING outright because of the stupid actions of a few has always been and will always be a bad idea.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Yearofthe1

I am an ER nurse and multi-tasking is a part of my existence and it's how I make a living. I do agree that IF you are going to use the cell phone while driving, a hands-free system should be mandatory. .

This is exactly the WRONG thing to do, and it's addressed in the article. Hands-free devices have been proven to do nothing to solve the problem. The problem isn't the phone itself, it's the conversation going on with someone who isn't in the vehicle with you, and therefor not aware of your situation.

The hands free laws that have been written are ignoring the science, and EVERYONE thinks they can multitask better than everyone else. It's proven that you can't, or at least not well enough to justify doing it behind the wheel.

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

This is exactly the WRONG thing to do, and it's addressed in the article. Hands-free devices have been proven to do nothing to solve the problem. The problem isn't the phone itself, it's the conversation going on with someone who isn't in the vehicle with you, and therefor not aware of your situation.

The hands free laws that have been written are ignoring the science, and EVERYONE thinks they can multitask better than everyone else. It's proven that you can't, or at least not well enough to justify doing it behind the wheel.

Oh really! Come see if you can keep up with me during one of my shifts in the ER then. You obviously have no idea what true multi-tasking looks like. I'm not shuffling papers there, I'm dealing with people's lives. You can't just make blanket statements that apply to ALL people. Otherwise, we could all be fighter pilots, right!? There's no difference between any of us, we're all the same, correct!?!

[Simsims]

Originally Posted by Yearofthe1

Oh really! Come see if you can keep up with me during one of my shifts in the ER then. You obviously have no idea what true multi-tasking looks like. I'm not shuffling papers there, I'm dealing with people's lives. You can't just make blanket statements that apply to ALL people. Otherwise, we could all be fighter pilots, right!? There's no difference between any of us, we're all the same, correct!?!

don't worry. some people just don't get it.

They can only understand what sequential processing means, not parallel. Some people just likes to assume that everyone have the same processing abilities in their heads.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Yearofthe1

Oh really! Come see if you can keep up with me during one of my shifts in the ER then. You obviously have no idea what true multi-tasking looks like. I'm not shuffling papers there, I'm dealing with people's lives. You can't just make blanket statements that apply to ALL people. Otherwise, we could all be fighter pilots, right!? There's no difference between any of us, we're all the same, correct!?!

You're the classic example of a driver who thinks they're so much better at it than everyone else the rules shouldn't apply to them. I dont give a DAMN what you do for work...talking on a phone while driving is distracting, and you ARE NOT as good a driver as you would be otherwise. PERIOD.

[Dave]

great read and even more interesting posts.... i think what pushed me over the edge is seeing a motorcycle driver on the cell phone.... from a stop light to next light. I was shocked.

I think alot of ppl feel the need to keep in touch with family and it comes down to managing expectations. From 8-8pm ppl work and commute. Wives, moms, kids and siblings all call alot during those times... but i rarely pick up unless i know its urgent.

If you tell them (all the parties listed above) you are unavailable till after 9pm (dinner from 8-9pm) then they will learn to txt or email you and then you can continue conversation on your time/ their time and communicate more effectively.

Bottom line i HATE being obligated to pick up the phone.... such as a family member freaking out why i do not pick up calls all the time.

Just because you have a cell phone doesnt mean you are available 24/7. If you make your self less available it will be much easier to manage expectations.

here is example you all can maybe relate to....
I used to arrange alot of 1 meets and still do here but the sheer volume of calls before the meet is an issue. I do not mind but i dont anwser the calls till i am done driving or know where i am and situated at a decent rest stop. This frustrates some ppl and i feel bad but if you plan ahead and mng expectations a cell phone is not needed while driving.

Plus i use the iphone as an ipod in the car so i do not touch it very often

I am glad to see imperical data to prove how dangerous this is.... and even happier driving while texting/emailing is becoming a law/ being cracked down on.

Flame suit On--> i believe when you drive you drive nothing else. Maybe music some side passenger conversation but a car is 3k lb weapon. Cell phones should be off (which is even hard for me) no smoking or drinking... just you and your car

my 72 cents.

-d

[JimD]

I juggle conflicting priorities all day at work too. I have 4 customers and engineers for each customer and multiple bosses and all the normal kind of things to deal with. But I work on one thing at a time. I get interrupted a lot so I have to write more things down. A nurse may have difficulty writing things down and may have to keep track better mentally but I think you really can only give full attention to one thing at a time. But you cannot totally forget other stuff. I can't either. And when I get real busy, I make more mistakes.

Driving a car without other cars around does not take nearly full attention for an experienced driver. It could demand full attention at any point in time, however. If a tire blows out or another driver doing something stupid suddenly appears, you need to concentrate on that situation.

Similarly, a lot of my conversations do not require full attention. When I was dating my late wife, I used to read a magazine sometimes. She heard me turning the page so she knew I was doing it. She said everything significant multiple times so I didn't have to pay a lot of attention. I liked hearing her talk and she liked talking so it was OK. I suspect a lot of cell phone conversations are like this - not that challenging mentally.

The referenced article does suggest a difference for various devices/interruptions. It says that scrolling through an ipod increases risk two fold (2X). Texting increases risk 6X. Talking on a cell phone 4X. Putting an address into a GPS .25X - if doing it verbally. It would be interesting to see the cell phone risk broken down to bluetooth and non but just this data suggests using your hands more = more risk. Otherwise, why is texting highest and verbally changing a GPS lowest? From personnel experience, I have tried typing something into my blackberry while driving - very bad idea - and it is noticably more distracting than talking on the phone. I think there are differences and a good start could be to try and discourage the most risky behavior (texting (including blackberry) followed by non-bluetooth phone usage).

Jim

[TMR013]

Wow! Very good, insiteful conversation.
I have to agree with nearly everybody posting:
- Cell phone use should be limited while diving (meaning some people should just be outright banned)
- We most definately need more driver training in America
- Other distractions are just as bad as cell phones, audio, iDrive, etc.
But I do have to say that I also agree with the people who say it is possible to multitask safely. Some people have the skill/bandwidth. How you identify those people is the tough part, so I can understand the reasoning behind not doing it at all is the safer course.
I find that the hands free/voice activated system on my 1 has made a tremendous difference for me. I really do feel I can focus on driving. But I do sometimes lose track of the phone conversation. I think that's the trick, prioritization.

[pit1]

Originally Posted by Yearofthe1

Oh really! Come see if you can keep up with me during one of my shifts in the ER then. You obviously have no idea what true multi-tasking looks like. I'm not shuffling papers there, I'm dealing with people's lives. You can't just make blanket statements that apply to ALL people. Otherwise, we could all be fighter pilots, right!? There's no difference between any of us, we're all the same, correct!?!

That's the kind of response I live to fight. Regardless I respect anyone in the healthcare industry. I grew up in a family of physicians, from internal medicine specialists to peds ER specialists. It's a stressful field, high workload, and cognitively demanding. But, and a BIG BUT here...you're missing the point, and some of the facts, it's ignorant to assume this doesn't apply to you. My Dad, a nephrologist, tries to give me the same bit...I give him the same answer.

First of all, according to recent research, there's technically no such thing as "multi-tasking", but rather resource allocation/sharing or "task-switching". We do not process multiple tasks simultaneously, however the efficiency in which we can "switch" differs by individual. There's no denying individual differences. Practice has shown to improve ones ability to "switch" (younger generations are shown to be more efficient at time sharing, e.g. homework, IM, internet, tv).

That said, your efficiency and capacity to allocate resources is dependent on the cognitive processes involved in each task, and what pools of resources are being pulled and to what capacity. If you all care to develop a little Meta-Cognition, look into Wickens Multiple Resource Theory, Early/Late Processing models or other mental workload theories. Look into the field of "NeuroErgonomics," some pretty amazing advances in studying human cognition, abilities and optimizing our environment. I studied under the creator, Dr. Parasuraman. You may get a better understanding and respect for your cognitive capabilities/limitations.

The actual causes for performance decrement with cell phone/driving is still only theorized based on some of the above theories. However, as fMRI is becoming more mobile, some research institutions are beginning to explore the direct effects while monitoring participant in driving simulators. We'll know more in a few years, but for now, we can't ignore the evidence. It's one of the influential and widely studied issues in the Human Factors field.

Trust the data, don't be ignorant...you ARE distracted. Some people say, "so..it decreases my capacity, but I'm a good multi-tasker, my capacity is above average...therefor talking on the phone just makes me average." That could be some truth to that...but if you're gifted with fighter pilot processing and coordination, why voluntarily deplete your abilities?

HANDS FREE MAKES NO DIFFERENCE...it has nothing to do with manual manipulation but rather the battle for cognitive resources and interference of driving-related cognitive processes.

[pit1]

Originally Posted by TMR013

I really do feel I can focus on driving. But I do sometimes lose track of the phone conversation. I think that's the trick, prioritization.

A great point, and heavy area of research right now.

Our individual differences are a huge hurdle, a challenging piece of social science. Also, as our youngsters have proven, we develop new strategies. Regardless, the effects of cell phone use are shocking. It's amazing what some of the participants are not processing, or ignoring completely.

[Simsims]

Originally Posted by pit1

That's the kind of response I live to fight. Regardless I respect anyone in the healthcare industry. I grew up in a family of physicians, from internal medicine specialists to peds ER specialists. It's a stressful field, high workload, and cognitively demanding. But, and a BIG BUT here...you're missing the point, and some of the facts, it's ignorant to assume this doesn't apply to you. My Dad, a nephrologist, tries to give me the same bit...I give him the same answer.

First of all, according to recent research, there's technically no such thing as "multi-tasking", but rather resource allocation/sharing or "task-switching". We do not process multiple tasks simultaneously, however the efficiency in which we can "switch" differs by individual. There's no denying individual differences. Practice has shown to improve ones ability to "switch" (younger generations are shown to be more efficient at time sharing, e.g. homework, IM, internet, tv).

That said, your efficiency and capacity to allocate resources is dependent on the cognitive processes involved in each task, and what pools of resources are being pulled and to what capacity. If you all care to develop a little Meta-Cognition, look into Wickens Multiple Resource Theory, Early/Late Processing models or other mental workload theories. Look into the field of "NeuroErgonomics," some pretty amazing advances in studying human cognition, abilities and optimizing our environment. I studied under the creator, Dr. Parasuraman. You may get a better understanding and respect for your cognitive capabilities/limitations.

The actual causes for performance decrement with cell phone/driving is still only theorized based on some of the above theories. However, as fMRI is becoming more mobile, some research institutions are beginning to explore the direct effects while monitoring participant in driving simulators. We'll know more in a few years, but for now, we can't ignore the evidence. It's one of the influential and widely studied issues in the Human Factors field.

Trust the data, don't be ignorant...you ARE distracted. Some people say, "so..it decreases my capacity, but I'm a good multi-tasker, my capacity is above average...therefor talking on the phone just makes me average." That could be some truth to that...but if you're gifted with fighter pilot processing and coordination, why voluntarily deplete your abilities?

HANDS FREE MAKES NO DIFFERENCE...it has nothing to do with manual manipulation but rather the battle for cognitive resources and interference of driving-related cognitive processes.

You do realize that you have 2 brain hemispheres, and that they are independent of each other, and that they can simultaneously process information, and that they specialize in different things, right?

Now tell me why you can't multitask with 2 processors. Phone - mouth/ears. Driving - eyes, MAYBE ears.

You're on different I/O

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Simsims

You do realize that you have 2 brain hemispheres, and that they are independent of each other, and that they can simultaneously process information, and that they specialize in different things, right?

Now tell me why you can't multitask with 2 processors. Phone - mouth/ears. Driving - eyes, MAYBE ears.

You're on different I/O

You do realize that every SCIENTIFIC study ever done says exactly the opposite....right? The brain isn't like a dual core process where each side can handle the same kind of tasks. Driving and talking obviously both involve parts of both.

[JimD]

Hands free makes a difference Sorry, I had to use a little bold too. Pushing buttons requires more concentration - especially little blackberry buttons - than does talking. At least most of my talking. I agree it is the same thing - a distraction - but the very data you cite says it is a bigger distraction. Taking your eyes off the road to look at buttons is riskier than looking at the road while you are talking. Talking does not directly use anything you need to drive a car except your brain. Pushing buttons uses your eyes and your hands too, which you directly need use of to drive (and it still uses your brain).

If you are trying to say in your opinion the risk is too high even with hands free, then say that. If you say it doesn't make a difference you conflict with both common sense and your own data.

While there are differences between individuals I think we also need to keep in mind there are a wide variety of situations too. Even a very talented individual can be put into a challenging enough driving situation that the distraction from phone usage is a problem. And even a low skill driver/multi tasker could have a simple enough challenge to manage - they seem to most of the time. Recognizing when the risk is too great is the trick. I do not accept that it is too high all the time. I have proven several times I can drive a car, talk on the phone, and eat at the same time (I admit I can't speak while swallowing however). You can do a lot of stuff and stay in your lane on the road is there is nobody around you and the road is flat and straight. It's when people start doing stupid things in their cars around you that you may need all your abilities on the driving task.

Jim