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04-21-2012, 02:58 PM | #1 |
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128 hesitating after ~17min
Took the 128 to Lime Rock yesterday since my e30 doesn't have an engine in it at the moment, in 2 of the sessions after ~17 minutes or so it would hesitate/cut out in Big Bend and wouldn't clear up until half way down "No Name Straight". Neither time were any idiot lights on and the tank always was more than 1/2 full. I was running on all-seasons so I wasn't setting any records in the corners so I highly doubt fuel was the issue. Each time I proceeded to the pits to give the car a rest and the car would be fine the next time I went out. Anybody that is tracking a 128 experience it start to hesitate after 15-20 minutes on the track?
Also noticed a significant delay between the gas pedal and the actual engine throttle when getting back on the gas when tracking out.
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04-21-2012, 03:02 PM | #2 |
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First thing you should do is check for any fault codes. Or maybe go to the dealer and ask them to scan the DME. I wouldn't tell them about being a race track though. Just tell them you were driving thru some twisty roads.
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04-21-2012, 04:01 PM | #3 |
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Are you driving a slushbox?
I haven't noticed any significant throttle lag on my 128i, but I hear the auto trannys are worse about that, which is why I ask. Also, I'm thinking an auto tranny might overheat or something on the track, which could be a source of your issues. I've heard of auto-box 135i's/335i's having a harder time with going into limp mode at the track, so could be a similar issue. But if you're driving a 6MT, I don't know. My 128i hasn't had that problem. Did four 20-30 minute runs a couple of weeks ago, and am on PSS's, so I was pushing as hard as I dared. Any chance the hesitation was the DTC cutting power due to loss of traction from the all-seasons? Just kind of brainstorming here...
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04-21-2012, 04:43 PM | #4 | |
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Hopefully I'll get my ass moving on the e30 and I won't have to deal with all the computer controlled BS of this car.
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04-21-2012, 06:27 PM | #5 |
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Skinny... I was at limerock last week.. With EMRA next event is 6/17...
On to your issue.. I run a 128 for the last year and a half..Best time at Lime rock was a 1:06.9 and its an auto... but that is not the issue because i have had the same limp modes that you have experienced.. Usually i get it in the 3rd and 4th sessions ( 20 mi / 15 lap sessions ) I experience no throttle response but if i back off it allows me to continue.. i do 2 cool down laps and finish my session... we have the same issue as 135... OIL TEMP LIMP MODE.. Ive been thinking of how to solve it, and there is a solution i think would work.. You would need to retrofit an oil filter housing from an early 128 / 328 that has the provisions for the small oil cooler that came on the early cars. you would need the filter housion, the cooler and the couple of hoses to route coolant to the cooler.. also as a secondary add on, you could not use the cooler and retrofit the plate from a 135 and install an external air to oil cooler like a 135. In between session i am in the practice of using a water sprayer to spray the oil filter housing and the tranny cooler for the hell of it. if you go to real oem and pick an early oil cooler pic you will see what i am talking about. p.s i have scanned for faults befor and there are none. the car just goes into limp and protect itself. regards..
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04-21-2012, 09:48 PM | #6 |
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RealOEM shows small oil coolers on cars built up until September 2010 - but it looks like they only came fitted to AT-equipped cars. Is that correct?
Interesting, because I never realized that there wear any year-to-year changes to the N52.
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04-21-2012, 09:49 PM | #7 | |
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The throttle delay tracking out sure sounds like DSC, but if it was turned off, I don't know. |
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04-23-2012, 07:11 AM | #8 | |
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The simplest solution may be to simply duct some air to the oil pan, e30 guys have found that is more effective than the stock small oil cooler. All that plastic under the car is good for aero but certainly doesn't help the cooling situation.
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04-23-2012, 11:33 AM | #9 | |
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I was thinking of that myself, even just cutting a slit in the plastic panels and screwing on a small scoop or something... who knows... just opening some holes may do it ??
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04-23-2012, 11:43 AM | #10 |
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How do you guys know it's oil temp? I've never had oil or water temps anywhere near the thresholds, but I've had short-term limp modes and the lowered rev limit anyway. There are a lot of other causes besides oil and water temp. The stupid "brakes overheating" limp mode for example is pretty common.
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04-23-2012, 11:58 AM | #11 |
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<-- Crosses fingers
I've yet to have any Limp modes on the track, DSC/Brakes, Oil, Water.. well except for that one time my Wastegates stuck open.. but that's not really related.
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04-23-2012, 12:33 PM | #12 | |
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By brakes overheating limp mode you are just referring to them fading and having to back off, not due to some mystery sensor?
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04-23-2012, 01:48 PM | #13 |
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Skinny there's been debate about if there's a sensor that will put it into limp mode b/c of temp of the brakes. Personally I think it's BS and there's no sensor b/c I've gotten my brakes uber hot on the track and never had a limp mode.
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04-23-2012, 01:59 PM | #14 | |
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To me the only things that currently make sense are engine temps (oil or water) or something to do with the traction control/e-diff not shutting off/working as they should. Until it starts to happen when I am driving to work I'm not going to worry about it too much, just surprised that more people haven't run into an issue if it really was a temp issue, then again not many people are tracking a 1 series let alone a 128.
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04-23-2012, 02:05 PM | #15 | |
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There are pressure sensors in the dsc control unit, level sensors in master, wear sensors on the pads, rotational rate sensors on the hubs.. But there are no Temp sensors. can it see duty cycle and guess that brakes are warm / hot.. maybe ???? The guys with a 6 speed wont know what im talking about, but us ^AT guys may... on the track car is in DS and i paddle shift.. when this happens, i quickly put the car in D wait a moment and i get the throttle back although its limited... takes half a lap to cool off... but best to go 1 more lap and then your fine till the end.. Ill try to find the stuff on the oil temp..
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04-23-2012, 02:15 PM | #16 |
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It's not a mystery sensor. It's something based on the wheel speed sensors and I don't know what else. Several 135i owners from all over have posted that their dealers showed them the codes. Someone posted just a few days ago after DriveHard said he didn't believe it that it's a published feature that was developed first for the X3 I think. That's all I know about it.
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04-23-2012, 02:19 PM | #17 | |
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Here, X5, not X3:
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04-23-2012, 02:32 PM | #18 |
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that is ridiculous if it is the case, wonder how the car would like it if I unplugged all the wheel speed sensors
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04-23-2012, 02:34 PM | #19 |
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Interesting. Actually pretty cool tech, but kind of a bummer on the track. I'm assuming it's non-defeatable?
OP, like I said, when I had my car on the track a few weeks ago I didn't have this problem, but I'm a novice and I wasn't getting into the brakes hard like my instructor was doing (in his car, a 135i, when I did a ridealong). I assumed that since he had a 135i, his brakes just bit better, but I think I also need to learn to brake more aggressively. I'm just thinking if this thing is brake-related, than that might explain why you experienced it and I didn't. I wonder if the system would allow more latitude if brakes were upgraded (I know the car gets recoded when installing the Performance brake kit)? Anyway, so far I think we have a lot of conjecture more than anything else. Incidentally, I'm doing a two-day track event this upcoming weekend. I'll let you know if I have any issues.
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04-23-2012, 02:54 PM | #21 | |
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Here are two posts I found, but I still have no idea whether we can really do it. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...02#post7066002 http://andysapp.com/2009/12/fully-di...dsc-in-an-e46/ |
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04-24-2012, 01:18 PM | #22 | ||
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Not sure the X5 statement applies to our car, seems as though it is a part of the Active Cruise Control, http://www.bmw.com.au/com/en/insight...-dynamism.html
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http://www.micro-tronik.com/main_functions_332.html Quote:
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