Wrong Gearbox Oil

[kiysersosae]

Well BMW has done it again.

I had my car in for Oil change last year (off my own back) car was around 14500miles and is now 15500miles ODO and when my clutch was replaced a couple of weeks ago i asked about the oil they had topped up with, they told my LT2! Obviously the wrong stuff so, i checked my service history from a year ago and what did they put in....Yes....LT2..

I e-mailed them and straight away they put their hands up and said they will change it free of charge, very honourable of them! However, when i questioned the damage the wrong oil may have done they wouldn’t answer. I kept emailing and eventually they said that it wasn’t the wrong oil (LT2) they had put in it was most likely a billing error and LT 5 was in the gearbox -where have we heard this before!- they will still change the oil just to be 100% sure that im running LT5. I told them i appreciate the offer of the oil change but i want some guarantee that the oil has not affected or will not affect the gearbox synchro, gear coatings in the future...I’m still waiting on a reply to this.
Does anyone know how detrimental this may be to the gearbox?

[ayao]

I don't think anyone will know for sure if it's "detrimental" but my impression is that it's unlikely to have caused any harm if your shifting felt fine while the LT2 fluid was in there.

The reason I say this is that people are running all sorts of other non OEM fluids (e.g. Redline MTF vs ATF D6 vs ATF D4 vs everything else ... see Mike Miller's BMW Maintenance FAQ) without any major issues.

It sucks that it happened but I think the gearbox is likely OK assuming you didn't notice any issues with shift quality.

[kiysersosae]

Originally Posted by ayao

I don't think anyone will know for sure if it's "detrimental" but my impression is that it's unlikely to have caused any harm if your shifting felt fine while the LT2 fluid was in there.

The reason I say this is that people are running all sorts of other non OEM fluids (e.g. Redline MTF vs ATF D6 vs ATF D4 vs everything else ... see Mike Miller's BMW Maintenance FAQ) without any major issues.

It sucks that it happened but I think the gearbox is likely OK assuming you didn't notice any issues with shift quality.

I here what you say ayao but I'm more concerned about the special carbon Friction linings on these gears/synchro, hence the introduction of the lt5 and Bmw not using the standard 6speed manual gear oil lt2.

If the oil is no detriment then why would they bother coming up with a new oil? Why does everyone on here make a big deal out of it?

If they won't give me confidence then there must be a reason for this.

Hopefully they will sort it out soon

[MightyMouseTech]

There is not really a "special coating". All syncros these days have a carbon coating on them.

If the car is shifting fine, there is no real reason to worry about it. And it would be impossible for them to say if there was/was not damage from what may/may not be the wrong fluid.

Can the dealer even get MTF LT2 anymore? I doubt it. Each time a new LT fluid comes out, it replaces the old version. So when LT3 came out, it replaced LT2. When LT5 came out it replaced LT4.

Are they not using LT6 now?

I would also recommend just forgetting the LT stuff and going with Redline MTL. Much, much better trans fluid IMHO. I have tried 4 different fluids in my 135's transmission (which is the exact same transmission as the 1M) and have found the MTL to be the best fluid so far.

[kiysersosae]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

There is not really a "special coating". All syncros these days have a carbon coating on them.

If the car is shifting fine, there is no real reason to worry about it. And it would be impossible for them to say if there was/was not damage from what may/may not be the wrong fluid.

Can the dealer even get MTF LT2 anymore? I doubt it. Each time a new LT fluid comes out, it replaces the old version. So when LT3 came out, it replaced LT2. When LT5 came out it replaced LT4.

Are they not using LT6 now?

I would also recommend just forgetting the LT stuff and going with Redline MTL. Much, much better trans fluid IMHO. I have tried 4 different fluids in my 135's transmission (which is the exact same transmission as the 1M) and have found the MTL to be the best fluid so far.

I disagree as the gearbox is not the same, it's the same outer case but not the same internally.

Quote"the 1M and the N55 135i's have the same trans. The N54 have a different trans than the 1M. The difference being is that the N55 manual trans has shorter throws(than stock N55 vs stock N54) but the biggest difference is smoother shifting due to low friction syncro rings. End quote"

The new carbon friction linings are why lt 5 was introduced lt2 is still the oil for the m3 tranny. So new friction linings and low friction shift mech so it's not really the same as the 135.

Anyways what the most important thing is that the oil has not damaged the linings...and all I would like is Bmw with all there technical know how to say this. If they developed an oil for it then they must have a reason. I wouldn't change to any other oil in the transmission for that reason.

These cars are tested to the extremes with the recommended oils so why change them!?

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by kiysersosae

I disagree as the gearbox is not the same, it's the same outer case but not the same internally.

Quote"the 1M and the N55 135i's have the same trans. The N54 have a different trans than the 1M. The difference being is that the N55 manual trans has shorter throws(than stock N55 vs stock N54) but the biggest difference is smoother shifting due to low friction syncro rings. End quote"

The new carbon friction linings are why lt 5 was introduced lt2 is still the oil for the m3 tranny. So new friction linings and low friction shift mech so it's not really the same as the 135.

Anyways what the most important thing is that the oil has not damaged the linings...and all I would like is Bmw with all there technical know how to say this. If they developed an oil for it then they must have a reason. I wouldn't change to any other oil in the transmission for that reason.

These cars are tested to the extremes with the recommended oils so why change them!?

The 1M, the N55 135i and the new F8x car use the SAME gear box. I know what BMW has said(that you posted) but we have found out different. MightyMouseTech is correct.

Yes, the 1M's(and N55) shifter throws are slightly shorter than a N54's.

Shifter throws:

N54 = 80mm's
N55(&1M) 70mm's
N54 Perf SSK = 55mm's

And yes, as BMW brings out a new LT oil, the old oil is replaced by the new oil. ie: LT5 can be used in place of LT3. I believe LT6 is the latest trans oil. I would not hesitate to use Redline - it is a better gear oil IMO.

We also know that the gear box is only rated for something like 390Nm but the 1M's engine puts out 550Nm(peak or on over boost). BMW seems to have taken a risk, but it seems to be working fine so far.

Dackel

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by kiysersosae

I disagree as the gearbox is not the same, it's the same outer case but not the same internally.

Quote"the 1M and the N55 135i's have the same trans. The N54 have a different trans than the 1M. The difference being is that the N55 manual trans has shorter throws(than stock N55 vs stock N54) but the biggest difference is smoother shifting due to low friction syncro rings. End quote"

The new carbon friction linings are why lt 5 was introduced lt2 is still the oil for the m3 tranny. So new friction linings and low friction shift mech so it's not really the same as the 135.

Anyways what the most important thing is that the oil has not damaged the linings...and all I would like is Bmw with all there technical know how to say this. If they developed an oil for it then they must have a reason. I wouldn't change to any other oil in the transmission for that reason.

These cars are tested to the extremes with the recommended oils so why change them!?

Check the part numbers on realoem or some other parts site.

The 1M and the N55 135 use the EXACT same transmission. The complete assembly is the exact same part number.

I would change them because the Redline fluid is a much better fluid than the BMW stuff, whatever number it is.

[kiysersosae]

The car is getting booked in and BMW have emailed me to say that if the gearbox is found to be defective and it is proved the oil was the reson they will repair or replace.

Cheers for the input on this.

[Zuzu]

I had a similar issue with the first service, where the dealer never replaced the tranny nor diff oil as per schedule, but still included in the documented invoice..

After a very heated " discussion" , I managed to " persuade" the dealer to give me the BMW 3 year extended warranty for FREE, to cover any unforeseen problems that might occur in the future, by the tranny oils not being replaced as per schedule.

[kiysersosae]

Update

I had the car in at BMW yesterday and they changed the gearbox oil to LT5 after a full flush...

I have to say, the gear shift is night and day and I'm not exaggerating when I say this! Before, I used to find 3rd and 4th slightly notch with 3rd sometimes not fully engaging but after this change I drove through the the city and every gear just slid in with minimal effort.

Very happy now and glad that the dealer held there hands up at there mistake, there not all bad.

[NIB]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

The 1M, the N55 135i and the new F8x car use the SAME gear box. I know what BMW has said(that you posted) but we have found out different. MightyMouseTech is correct.

Yes, the 1M's(and N55) shifter throws are slightly shorter than a N54's.

Shifter throws:

N54 = 80mm's
N55(&1M) 70mm's
N54 Perf SSK = 55mm's

And yes, as BMW brings out a new LT oil, the old oil is replaced by the new oil. ie: LT5 can be used in place of LT3. I believe LT6 is the latest trans oil. I would not hesitate to use Redline - it is a better gear oil IMO.

We also know that the gear box is only rated for something like 390Nm but the 1M's engine puts out 550Nm(peak or on over boost). BMW seems to have taken a risk, but it seems to be working fine so far.

Dackel

Is ATEXIO VI (ATF DEXRON VI) from Rymax Netherlands a good alternative for BMW -83-22-2-163-514 Dexron VI Transmission fluid. It is the Dexron 6 available in mine country for now. The order one is Pure Guard Multi-Purpose Transmission Oil - Mercon V.

Also when I bought mine car, 2009 128i, with mileage 37,000K, it was discovered that the differential oil was nearly dry and due to unavailability of BMW genuine Differential Oil, a local non synthetic 80W/140 was pumped in. The car has been driven for at least 100km before I now have 2litres of Castrol SAF-XO Differential Oil. I want to know if this will be enough for a flush and wither if the early local common oil have damaged mine differential

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by NIB

Is ATEXIO VI (ATF DEXRON VI) from Rymax Netherlands a good alternative for BMW -83-22-2-163-514 Dexron VI Transmission fluid. It is the Dexron 6 available in mine country for now. The order one is Pure Guard Multi-Purpose Transmission Oil - Mercon V.

Also when I bought mine car, 2009 128i, with mileage 37,000K, it was discovered that the differential oil was nearly dry and due to unavailability of BMW genuine Differential Oil, a local non synthetic 80W/140 was pumped in. The car has been driven for at least 100km before I now have 2litres of Castrol SAF-XO Differential Oil. I want to know if this will be enough for a flush and wither if the early local common oil have damaged mine differential

The differential holds just over 1 liter of gear oil. 1.2 liters I believe.

Since you've gone so long on the old fluid that was used - you might change the fluid twice - after a few weeks of use.

You will need a vacuum pump to suck out the old fluid since our diff's have no drain plug(only a fill plug)!

Castrol SAF-XJ is backwards compatible with non-M cars. That's why I used it, bc SAF-XO was hard to find. Plus I wanted a full synthetic oil. Not sure if XO is ?

Dack

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by kiysersosae

I disagree as the gearbox is not the same, it's the same outer case but not the same internally.

Quote"the 1M and the N55 135i's have the same trans. The N54 have a different trans than the 1M. The difference being is that the N55 manual trans has shorter throws(than stock N55 vs stock N54) but the biggest difference is smoother shifting due to low friction syncro rings. End quote"

The new carbon friction linings are why lt 5 was introduced lt2 is still the oil for the m3 tranny. So new friction linings and low friction shift mech so it's not really the same as the 135.

Anyways what the most important thing is that the oil has not damaged the linings...and all I would like is Bmw with all there technical know how to say this. If they developed an oil for it then they must have a reason. I wouldn't change to any other oil in the transmission for that reason.

These cars are tested to the extremes with the recommended oils so why change them!?

^^Yep. And... the F8x M3/M4's use a modified version of the N55 manual trans. That's what I like about the Germans... they are always refining their products.

Dack

[rad doc]

Which redline trans fluid would you use on the 1M?

[NIB]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

The differential holds just over 1 liter of gear oil. 1.2 liters I believe.

Since you've gone so long on the old fluid that was used - you might change the fluid twice - after a few weeks of use.

You will need a vacuum pump to suck out the old fluid since our diff's have no drain plug(only a fill plug)!

Castrol SAF-XJ is backwards compatible with non-M cars. That's why I used it, bc SAF-XO was hard to find. Plus I wanted a full synthetic oil. Not sure if XO is ?

Dack

You forgot to tell me if ATEXIO VI (ATF DEXRON VI) from Rymax Netherlands a good alternative for BMW -83-22-2-163-514 Dexron VI Transmission fluid. It is the Dexron 6 available in mine country for now. The other one is Pure Guard Multi-Purpose Transmission Oil - Mercon V.

The above is for mine Transmission Oil change. Advice on which to use. I know that mine Transmission is a GM tranny for Cardillac CTS

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by NIB

You forgot to tell me if ATEXIO VI (ATF DEXRON VI) from Rymax Netherlands a good alternative for BMW -83-22-2-163-514 Dexron VI Transmission fluid. It is the Dexron 6 available in mine country for now. The other one is Pure Guard Multi-Purpose Transmission Oil - Mercon V.

The above is for mine Transmission Oil change. Advice on which to use. I know that mine Transmission is a GM tranny for Cardillac CTS

I have NO experience with that gear oil.

I have only used Redline AFT-D4 in my 135i's gear box. It is a good gear oil