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      01-11-2014, 06:46 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
OP thanks for this great DIY. Thanks to everyone on this thread for the comments, it convinced me to give the Whitelines a try. My car has over 120k miles so I try to be judicious about my investment in mods.

Just did the install today. I'm pretty noob so it took me a little over 2 hours. Not difficult, just many turns of the ratchet. I did the rears without undoing anything up front, then tightened them back up to make sure I was doing things right and could put the car back. For the fronts, I did one side at a time, first removing the front bolts and then removing the rear bushing bolt on that side. Gave me enough clearance to slip the top front insert in.

It's raining in Tampa today, so my test drive was not very thorough. I can say that the car seems much more stable over dips on the expressway.

Overall, very pleased with the results. I suppose the M3 bushings are better but this part costs less than the tool rental to install the M3s.
What in the M3 bushings makes them better then the other? is it made of better material?
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      01-11-2014, 06:48 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Horigan
FYI. I just ordered a set and they now come in black, which I prefer.

Rich
Yup...mine are black as well
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      01-11-2014, 06:59 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukuss
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
OP thanks for this great DIY. Thanks to everyone on this thread for the comments, it convinced me to give the Whitelines a try. My car has over 120k miles so I try to be judicious about my investment in mods.

Just did the install today. I'm pretty noob so it took me a little over 2 hours. Not difficult, just many turns of the ratchet. I did the rears without undoing anything up front, then tightened them back up to make sure I was doing things right and could put the car back. For the fronts, I did one side at a time, first removing the front bolts and then removing the rear bushing bolt on that side. Gave me enough clearance to slip the top front insert in.

It's raining in Tampa today, so my test drive was not very thorough. I can say that the car seems much more stable over dips on the expressway.

Overall, very pleased with the results. I suppose the M3 bushings are better but this part costs less than the tool rental to install the M3s.
What in the M3 bushings makes them better then the other? is it made of better material?
I've never done a side by side comparison but thinking conventional wisdom is m3's are better, that a full bushing replacement is better than an insert.
That said, very satisfied with the inserts. More rear stability and no NVH compromise for me. In fact, they've reduced a drivetrain NVH issue on my car.
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      02-09-2014, 10:16 AM   #48
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Has anyone noticed that the wiggle has come back when hitting larger bumps? I have noticed that the rear is not as planted as before. I checked the 16mm bolts again and they are all snug. This feels more like the way the car felt stock. Not as bad but not as good as when I first installed them.
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      02-20-2014, 04:41 AM   #49
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I can't say I have noticed any loss in body control since installing the inserts a couple of months back, although your post has made me think I should re-check the subframe bolts for tightness.

Perhaps you need the M3 bushings if you feel the inserts are going, ahem, soft?
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      02-24-2014, 06:34 AM   #50
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Any idea if the inserts increase the high of the rear suspension or subframe ?


Thanks in advance mates
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      02-24-2014, 05:19 PM   #51
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I don't believe so. The upper mounts do not interfere with the vertical positioning of the subframe. The inner metal collar (where the bolt goes) of the stock bushings still makes direct contact with the body of the car. I didn't get a great shot of it, but it is apparent when you lower the subframe. There is a shiny spot on the body frame and inner bushing where you can see no dirt has been present. The upper inserts do not cover this area.
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      02-25-2014, 03:17 AM   #52
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+1. I measured wheel centre to fender/ mudguard lip before and after I installed mine, and found installing whiteline inserts had little or no impact on body height.
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      02-26-2014, 03:12 AM   #53
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Thanks for the inputs guys So for those who want to mount some subframe inserts, they don't have to worry : they don't change the highness of the rear axle !
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      02-26-2014, 10:20 PM   #54
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Yes, thank you everyone for your input and to the original poster of this thread.

I ordered a set, and they will arrive Friday. Talk about fast shipping!

Very excited to install these over the weekend.
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      03-09-2014, 10:14 AM   #55
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I don't believe so. Judging by how light they are and appearance I think the bolts are aluminum or magnesium alloy, which I don't believe are suitable for torque-to-yield.
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      03-12-2014, 02:20 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///JAAM View Post
Hey everyone. I am about to do this and was just curious if the subframe bolts are stretch bolts? Do they need to be replaced? I see no mention of anyone replacing them.
Thanks for the help.
I wondered the same after installing Whiteline inserts a couple of months back. To reassure myself, I re-torqued the subframe bolts recently to 75Nm (the lower of two settings I came across). 3 of the 4 bolts were fine, but the 4th required a very slight nip - although it may not have been as tight as the others to start with.
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      04-18-2014, 06:58 PM   #57
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I did this today. The inserts are now black. Took 2.5 hrs, incl a drive, re-jack, and re-torque. Would have been easier with a friend. These are not like solid M3 bushings, I'm sure, but at least I don't have to FULLY drop the subframe and mess with brake lines to press/pull the bushings in and out. Wheel hop is less, straight line acceleration is... straight now. Worth the effort. I'd imagine the feel is 75% of M3 bushings, with half of the effort and cost. To really complete the "m3 bushings" package you'd probably need to replace the carrier bushings and all of the other suspension bushings also, of which there are plenty and you may as well just purchase M3 arms.
It was difficult to get my driver (US) side front back in the correct place so the bolt wouldn't cross-thread. The 18mm hex bolts were not in the same places as evidenced by the road grime ghost. I'm sure I need a minor alignment.
Ozimmer, it's 100nm, so 74 ft-lbs, not 75nm. Go re-torque your bolts. I'm not sure what the hex bolts are - they are for reinforcement only anyways. Good and tight will do for those.
Of course, a solid M3 bushing is better than inserts. A solid urathane would be even more stiff, solid delrin would be even harder than that, and billet aluminum would be for hardcore racers who like to break things.
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      04-23-2014, 10:01 AM   #58
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FYI, I just found the Whiteline KDT918 inserts listed for sale a few bucks cheaper by a vendor called NeverEnoughAuto. They have it listed both on Amazon and eBay. The MSRP is same as other sites but shipping is cheaper by few bucks ($5 vs $9).

http://www.amazon.com/Whiteline-KDT9...A10KPP948X9D3L
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      05-21-2014, 06:42 PM   #59
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Thanks for the link! I just bought the inserts. Will install at the same time as my new downpipes
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      05-23-2014, 01:24 PM   #60
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Just ordered these, will be installing them in the coming week.

Long term owners, what are your impressions after having these inserts on your car for a while now?
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      05-25-2014, 10:00 AM   #61
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Yesterday I installed a set of Whiteline subframe inserts (KDT918). Thanks to Freon and others who posted instructions, photos, and torque values… I found them to be very helpful. I am extremely pleased with the results. Only one test drive so far, but initial impressions are that the rear wheels now feel much more planted and secure.

I thought I’d pass along a couple comments on the installation process:

As shown in the photo, I found that the bolts attaching the diagonal subframe brace to the chassis on my car are 16mm Torx bolts, not hex bolts as others have mentioned. Good thing I had a complete set of Torx sockets!

The position of the subframe and load on the various hardware can be controlled by either lifting or lowering the rear differential with your floor jack. Unless you adjust the jack to either compress or relax the rear suspension for the specific task you are trying to accomplish, you’ll be working against yourself. Here are the steps I recommend:
  1. With the suspension compressed, remove the rear subframe bushing bolts and loosen the front subframe bushing bolts. Remove the 16mm bolts securing the diagonal subframe braces. Note: the right diagonal brace on my car was loaded outboard and aft by the cross brace that runs inboard and forward to the center of the car. I chose to leave the forward bolt installed a few threads to prevent the diagonal brace from finding a new location and making it difficult to restart the bolts.
  2. With the suspension relaxed, insert the upper and lower rear subframe bushing inserts.
  3. With the suspension compressed, loosely reinstall the rear subframe bushing bolts, then remove the front subframe bushing bolts.
  4. With the suspension relaxed, install the upper front subframe bushing insert.
  5. With the suspension compressed, install the lower front subframe bushing insert.
  6. Loosely reinstall the front subframe bushing bolts and diagonal cross brace bolts.
  7. Snug down all the loosened bolts first, then tighten and torque. I used 74 lb ft on the subframe bolts, and 'good’n tight' on the cross brace bolts.

Here are photos of the bushings before install, before and after photos of the front and rear bushings, and a photo of the 16mm Torx bolts securing the diagonal cross braces. In the last photo (without the inserts installed), you can imaging that with the front subframe bushing lower inserts installed, the diagonal cross brace is displaced by the thickness of the insert (approximately 3/8”). I’m sure that tightening the cross brace bolts results in a fair amount of stress on the cross brace. Ideally a spacer would be fabricated to take up some of this space and reduce the amount of compression/bending load on the brace. I left it as is and tightened the bolts.
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      05-31-2014, 02:26 PM   #62
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Followed the great DYI guides posted here and installed them this morning.
Never have I spent so little and gained so much improvement with this car.
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      06-09-2014, 10:34 AM   #63
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Did this yesterday following this DYI and everything went as planned. Took me around 2.5 hrs and the results are great.
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      06-11-2014, 02:08 PM   #64
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Finally doing this Friday. Anyone find they needed more grease than the two little packets it comes with? If so what did you use.
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      06-11-2014, 03:11 PM   #65
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Don't think you will need more I used a 1 1/2 tubes and they had plenty of grease on them.
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      06-13-2014, 06:55 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joaco135 View Post
Don't think you will need more I used a 1 1/2 tubes and they had plenty of grease on them.
Awesome, thanks.

On another note, went to do the install this afternoon, chocked, jacked up, secured, loaded subframe, then checked my E18 socket. 1/2" drive and I forgot! all my extensions are 3/8". Had to run to the local tool shop and grab a 1/2" -> 3/8" female adapter. Not enough sunlight left so will be doing it in the morning.

Bummer.
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