123d Spotted in Michigan

FrencgBoy · 06-01-2008, 11:04 AM

Simply testing new hardware or else? BMW Diesel hatch in the US, we can dream...

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/01/b...t-in-michigan/

Nixon · 06-03-2008, 05:16 PM

I'm trying to keep the hope alive for a 123d in the US, but it hasn't been looking good lately.

atr_hugo · 06-03-2008, 05:28 PM

Bosch has a Michigan facility - see the plate, Manufacturer. FWIW, the folks in NJ have played with a 123D coupe here (had it in the hands of their personnel). They know what it can do - so there is some hope, I hope, I hope.

Mystiqueskillz · 06-03-2008, 05:34 PM

That looks pretty sick. Reminds me of the Honda Fit.

TagMan · 06-03-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

Bosch has a Michigan facility - see the plate, Manufacturer. FWIW, the folks in NJ have played with a 123D coupe here (had it in the hands of their personnel). They know what it can do - so there is some hope, I hope, I hope.

That's interesting, because the release of the X1 includes the announcement that it will be released with the top two gas engines and the top two diesel engines. Initially I figured diesel for Europe, and gas for the U.S.... but after reading your post, it leaves me with some hope that the X1 could possibly have a diesel variant here in the states... and I would be very interested in that!

atr_hugo · 06-03-2008, 05:49 PM

Any diesel BMW brings to the US will have to meet emissions standards in all 50 states, according to BMW. The big diesel in the 3er does (with its urea injection). I don't know if the 4-pot diesel in the 123D qualifies as a 50 state engine, however. That could be the sticking point.

BMW Dreamer · 06-03-2008, 06:12 PM

That would be really cool if they would bring that thing to the USA.

sredish · 06-03-2008, 08:42 PM

they will bring the diesel over, they just have to get the car out, which it is, and continue on to certify the diesel... takes time.

Deutsch · 06-03-2008, 11:08 PM

I definitely wouldn't mind a 4 pot in my 1er. Could go a long way in helping BMW meet CAFE in 2015.

Heinzftw · 06-04-2008, 12:33 AM

Well at the price of diesel these days would it be worth it? Here it's $6.00 a gallon...

Convertible · 06-04-2008, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heinzftw

Well at the price of diesel these days would it be worth it? Here it's $6.00 a gallon...

With a +45mpg (US) in combined cycle, it makes you think twice?

TagMan · 06-04-2008, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Convertible

With a +45mpg (US) in combined cycle it makes you think twice?

gio · 06-04-2008, 09:19 AM

How many states can you actually buy new diesel passenger cars in? I know they aren't legal in Massachusetts. I thought it was true for many other states too?

TagMan · 06-04-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gio

How many states can you actually buy new diesel passenger cars in? I know they aren't legal in Massachusetts. I thought it was true for many other states too?

Only 5 states have the higher standards. But , New York and California are two of them, and they represent a significant piece of the market.

The new generation of diesels will meet 50-State compliance with urea injection. Some manufacturer's call it ad-blue, but it is an ammonium-type solution and it requires only a tiny amount released in the exhaust stream to do the trick. Thus the name BLUETEC from Mercedes Benz. There are now already newer technologies being worked on that will eventually eliminate the urea.

From what I understand, the 4-bangers are easier to clean and already won't require the urea, particularly from Honda, and I believe VW as well.

Even if diesel fuel is more expensive, the fuel economy will be still be worth the investment in diesel alternatives. The problem will be the psychological hurdle to convince people to pay even MORE at the pump.

mfratt · 06-04-2008, 11:58 PM

I certainly wouldn't mind a 4-banger 1er, but not sure if I'd be entirely happy with a diesel-4.

ptack · 06-05-2008, 10:23 AM

Interesting strategy question. This car will be competing directly with a big group of low-cost, fuel efficient hatchbacks. Can BMW sell a high-end hatchback that's probably not also a high-end performance car (like the 1 US coupes)? I'm assuming they would never be willing to drop their brand into the $20-30k price range (isn't that what Mini's for?). So would anyone pay a premium for a 43 mpg diesel hatch? One would think not, but the market for pickups and SUVs is crashing and the people who once bought a $70k pickup largely for the image may be now be willing to throw their money in the opposite direction - IF the image is right. In other words, the one constant might be "a fool and his money".

Nixon · 06-05-2008, 12:30 PM

ptack - I think the 123d coupe would sell better in the US than a 123d hatch, partially because of the 'Halo' effect of the 135i coupe. That way BMW could market the 123d as a sporty, well handling car that happens to get awesome gas mileage. Based upon the difference between the price of the 135i and the 123d in Europe and the UK, the 123d coupe should be priced within a few hundred dollars of the 128i price.

My hopes would be doing an ED some day at $1,000 to $1,500 over ED invoice, which I think would put the price closer to the mid-20K range. That would be only a few thousand over a Jetta TDI, or a Prius Hybrid. The performance and handling improvements over either of these cars (while getting around the same MPG) would be well worth the extra expense.

I think if BMW decides to target the "practical" market in the US with a 1-series car, they will market the X1 cross-over as "practical" instead of a 3-door or 5-door 1-series hatch.

atr_hugo · 06-05-2008, 01:42 PM

Driving the 135i (sometimes ; -) under 4500 RPM for the break-in period suggests to me that the 123d would be AWESOME. Stump-pulling torque is such an American sorta vice. ; -)

1er junkie · 06-05-2008, 01:55 PM

I would trade in my car in a heart beat for a 123d. On top of that, think of all the boost you could turn loose on that diesel motor

and still get decent gas mileage.

ptack · 06-05-2008, 02:39 PM

Mr (dead) President,

I'm sure BMW has some very highly paid people trying to read the tea leaves on these questions since they have hundreds of millions of dollars riding on the outcome, but my sense is that they are a few years too late in their planning. SUVs (even small ones) could do poorly in the future market because of the perception that they are gas guzzlers. Even if the X1 gets better mileage than some similar size sedans (hard to imagine, but possible), the public's perception could be that SUVs and things that look like SUVs are undesirable in the world of $4/gallon gas.
It's quite a puzzler for BMW. They did the first easy step which was to introduce the 1 series coupe as a (slightly) lower level perormance car. Can they still do that with the rest of the 1 line or would a 5-door, 135i seriously start eating up 3 series sales? Audi is trying to pul that same trick off with the A3 so that might be the model to watch, as opposed to coming up with more SUVs for yesterday's US market.

06-01-2008, 11:04 AM	#1
FrencgBoy Enlisted Member 11 Rep 44 Posts Drives: '01 325Ci, Sport, 5 Spd Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (0)	123d Spotted in Michigan Simply testing new hardware or else? BMW Diesel hatch in the US, we can dream... http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/01/b...t-in-michigan/
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06-03-2008, 05:16 PM	#2
Nixon Banned 57 Rep 1,396 Posts Drives: : Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: : iTrader: (0)	I'm trying to keep the hope alive for a 123d in the US, but it hasn't been looking good lately.
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06-03-2008, 05:28 PM	#3
atr_hugo No longer moderate 325 Rep 4,401 Posts Drives: '13 135i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: - iTrader: (0)	Bosch has a Michigan facility - see the plate, Manufacturer. FWIW, the folks in NJ have played with a 123D coupe here (had it in the hands of their personnel). They know what it can do - so there is some hope, I hope, I hope.
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06-03-2008, 05:34 PM	#4
Mystiqueskillz Second Lieutenant 2 Rep 245 Posts Drives: 2007 Honda S2000 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Newark, CA iTrader: (0)	That looks pretty sick. Reminds me of the Honda Fit.
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06-03-2008, 05:49 PM	#6
atr_hugo No longer moderate 325 Rep 4,401 Posts Drives: '13 135i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: - iTrader: (0)	Any diesel BMW brings to the US will have to meet emissions standards in all 50 states, according to BMW. The big diesel in the 3er does (with its urea injection). I don't know if the 4-pot diesel in the 123D qualifies as a 50 state engine, however. That could be the sticking point.
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06-03-2008, 06:12 PM	#7
BMW Dreamer Colonel 72 Rep 2,387 Posts Drives: Modded 06 TL Manual Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Northern IL. iTrader: (0)	That would be really cool if they would bring that thing to the USA.
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06-03-2008, 08:42 PM	#8
sredish Private 2 Rep 76 Posts Drives: Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0)	they will bring the diesel over, they just have to get the car out, which it is, and continue on to certify the diesel... takes time.
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06-03-2008, 11:08 PM	#9
Deutsch Second Lieutenant 50 Rep 249 Posts Drives: Join Date: Nov 2006 iTrader: (0)	I definitely wouldn't mind a 4 pot in my 1er. Could go a long way in helping BMW meet CAFE in 2015.
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06-04-2008, 09:19 AM	#13
gio Captain 50 Rep 628 Posts Drives: Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0)	How many states can you actually buy new diesel passenger cars in? I know they aren't legal in Massachusetts. I thought it was true for many other states too? __________________ Waiting on a 2015 M235
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06-04-2008, 11:58 PM	#15
mfratt Saving up for the 1er... 0 Rep 80 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jun 2008 iTrader: (0)	I certainly wouldn't mind a 4-banger 1er, but not sure if I'd be entirely happy with a diesel-4. __________________
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06-05-2008, 10:23 AM	#16
ptack Brigadier General 269 Rep 4,470 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: May 2008 Location: NJ iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 135i [6.50]	Interesting strategy question. This car will be competing directly with a big group of low-cost, fuel efficient hatchbacks. Can BMW sell a high-end hatchback that's probably not also a high-end performance car (like the 1 US coupes)? I'm assuming they would never be willing to drop their brand into the $20-30k price range (isn't that what Mini's for?). So would anyone pay a premium for a 43 mpg diesel hatch? One would think not, but the market for pickups and SUVs is crashing and the people who once bought a $70k pickup largely for the image may be now be willing to throw their money in the opposite direction - IF the image is right. In other words, the one constant might be "a fool and his money".
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06-05-2008, 12:30 PM	#17
Nixon Banned 57 Rep 1,396 Posts Drives: : Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: : iTrader: (0)	ptack - I think the 123d coupe would sell better in the US than a 123d hatch, partially because of the 'Halo' effect of the 135i coupe. That way BMW could market the 123d as a sporty, well handling car that happens to get awesome gas mileage. Based upon the difference between the price of the 135i and the 123d in Europe and the UK, the 123d coupe should be priced within a few hundred dollars of the 128i price. My hopes would be doing an ED some day at $1,000 to $1,500 over ED invoice, which I think would put the price closer to the mid-20K range. That would be only a few thousand over a Jetta TDI, or a Prius Hybrid. The performance and handling improvements over either of these cars (while getting around the same MPG) would be well worth the extra expense. I think if BMW decides to target the "practical" market in the US with a 1-series car, they will market the X1 cross-over as "practical" instead of a 3-door or 5-door 1-series hatch.
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06-05-2008, 01:42 PM	#18
atr_hugo No longer moderate 325 Rep 4,401 Posts Drives: '13 135i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: - iTrader: (0)	Driving the 135i (sometimes ; -) under 4500 RPM for the break-in period suggests to me that the 123d would be AWESOME. Stump-pulling torque is such an American sorta vice. ; -)
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06-05-2008, 01:55 PM	#19
1er junkie Lieutenant 18 Rep 534 Posts Drives: Join Date: May 2008 iTrader: (0)	I would trade in my car in a heart beat for a 123d. On top of that, think of all the boost you could turn loose on that diesel motor and still get decent gas mileage.
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06-05-2008, 02:39 PM	#20
ptack Brigadier General 269 Rep 4,470 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: May 2008 Location: NJ iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 135i [6.50]	Mr (dead) President, I'm sure BMW has some very highly paid people trying to read the tea leaves on these questions since they have hundreds of millions of dollars riding on the outcome, but my sense is that they are a few years too late in their planning. SUVs (even small ones) could do poorly in the future market because of the perception that they are gas guzzlers. Even if the X1 gets better mileage than some similar size sedans (hard to imagine, but possible), the public's perception could be that SUVs and things that look like SUVs are undesirable in the world of $4/gallon gas. It's quite a puzzler for BMW. They did the first easy step which was to introduce the 1 series coupe as a (slightly) lower level perormance car. Can they still do that with the rest of the 1 line or would a 5-door, 135i seriously start eating up 3 series sales? Audi is trying to pul that same trick off with the A3 so that might be the model to watch, as opposed to coming up with more SUVs for yesterday's US market.
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