Rear Wheel Drive 23 Years Later...

[DVDA]

The first car I ever owned was a 1985 Firebird (I still own the car) and it was a fast, powerful car but it was rear wheel drive....

The rear wheel drive was a death trap, I lost track of how many turns over 30 mph and lost the tail end. About 5 times I completely lost her and did either a 360 spin or a 180 followed by a reverse 180.

Since then I have never purchased a rear wheel drive car (only front wheel drive from then on), but now I am in love with the 135i and im going to get one no matter what you guys tell me but my question is how is new BMW Technology for transaction?

I see the 135i has DTC DSC (i cant remember at the moment) how well does that work? Can i make a high speed turn without losing her?

Give me details guys, thanks!


P.S. The 135i Brochure i have promises "No Turbo Lag" is this B.S?

[Addict...Nah Im A Junkie!]

You should pick your car up at the performance center and you'll know all about how the car handles that.

Ive only driven rear wheel drive. But I don't think you have to worry about spinning the car with the "nannies" on.

Buy the car. It's freaking awesome!!!!

[Citizen Z]

Originally Posted by DVDA

I see the 135i has DTC DSC (i cant remember at the moment) how well does that work? Can i make a high speed turn without losing her?

P.S. The 135i Brochure i have promises "No Turbo Lag" is this B.S?

If you leave the traction control on, you'll lose traction in all four wheels or oversteer before the back end comes around. I've noticed that at around 100mph in third gear the back end comes around a bit if the traction control is completely off, but thats the only situation when I've felt a non-deliberatly induced oversteer.

And yes, the "No Turbo Lag" line is BS. Its way better than most turbos but its far and away from normally aspirated.

[DVDA]

So if i take a 90 degree turn at 60 mph with traction control on I wont spin out?

[canlefty]

Originally Posted by DVDA

So if i take a 90 degree turn at 60 mph with traction control on I wont spin out?

yes, you'll likely spin out-- the severity of which will be lightly impacted by your steering input there after... and hopefully you'd get "rewarded" for the stupidity that lead to this "maneuver" .

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by DVDA

So if i take a 90 degree turn at 60 mph with traction control on I wont spin out?

I think it's asking too much to expect to do that without running into trouble, nor without taking into account road conditions.

I've only owned FWD cars, but I did have the opportunity to do a slightly longer-than-usual (and unsupervised) test drive of a 135i a few weeks ago. I did notice that when taking some corners really hard, the car felt a little lighter in the turns than I expected--probably because I was still driving in FWD mode (e.g., lifting off the accelerator and/or braking while on a turn.) It felt a little weird to keep accelerating through the turns without having to fight understeer. I am hoping I'll be able to do PCD just to 'unlearn' some of those old instincts.

That said, it wasn't too crazy. I have a lot of confidence that I will be able to handle it. Just work your way up to it, don't jump in and expect to be at 100%.

[DVDA]

Well my 2001 Celica (although its a crappy car) I can take a turn at full speed without coming close to losing it, i dont know what it is about this car its hard to to spin out on purpose (i have tried)

[MikeVictor]

FWD vs RWD, that old chestnut?

I'll always remember seeing it described on TGUK as "With FWD you see the tree that kills you when you lose control, with RWD you don't see the tree that kills you when you lose control."

Just go and drive the car, realise it's motoring perfection and buy one

[lib]

Can you make a high speed turn without loosing it? Definitely, but you still need to use good judgment - taking a 90 degree turn at 60mph on a public road is not the brightest of ideas.

The traction and stability control work reasonably well and are tuned fairly aggressive for obvious reasons. That being said they are no substitute for common sense and I've definitely had the back end come out on a closed course when in DTC mode before (driver error... "oops")

[DVDA]

There is a road that no one goes down, its a short cut to my house on the way home from law school....

As i approach the turn i release the gas, when i get to the turn I spin the wheel and hit the gas, the car skids a bit but its alot of fun.

I always try to take it alittle bit faster than the last....I know its not a bright idea...but the road has no other cars on it though so if I lose it, ill hit a tree and no one else.

Now that same turn if i take it at like 7 mph in the rear wheel drive Firebird i will do a 180 spin out.

So that was my question will I have to take this turn like a wuss in the 135i or can I "balls to the wall" it better then the FWD Celica....

[KeithLM]

Originally Posted by DVDA

Well my 2001 Celica (although its a crappy car) I can take a turn at full speed without coming close to losing it, i dont know what it is about this car its hard to to spin out on purpose (i have tried)

What exactly do you mean by full speed? Are you claiming that you can drive that car as fast is it will possibly go and still turn on a dime?

My first car was a '77 Impala. I spun in the snow and rain a few times, sometimes when I was being foolish, and on ice sometimes for no apparent reason. With the 135i I feel confident all the time. The car does have a bit of understeer, but it's not to bad. And the traction control can really help in some situations. You'll lose some momentum, but not control.

Keep in mind that the 135i is better balanced than most cars, and it has a good suspension, and eLSD plus ABS. Did that old Firebird have a solid rear axle? How's its suspension set up? I had a '97 Camaro and I could feel the back-end want to break loose when I hit a bump while driving fast on a curve. That doesn't happen with the 135i.

[DVDA]

Keith what i mean by full speed is at or just above the speed limit without a applying the brakes...

I am not talking about 150 mph turn....

I have driven alot of cars and although the Celica is a low end product, I was amazed at how well i could cut corners and take turns...The fair share of RWD cars I have driven havent be able to take turns like this. Thus i was inquiring about the 135i's handling since its a RWD car.

[KeithLM]

Well I think you'll be surprised by this car. Prior to this I had an '06 Acura TL, '04 Grand Prix and an '01 Jetta. None of those were as fun to drive or gave me the feeling of complete control I have with this car. Granted I don't drive hard all the time, but I like to have fun on occasion.

Keep in mind an '87 GM cannot compare to a modern day European sports coupe. Not in any way. The technology has moved a long, long ways in that time. Recently on Top Gear they did a comparison between a classic Jag and Aston Martin, both great sports cars in the '60s, to a modern Accord. The Accord smoked them, even in a straight line. That had nothing to do with FWD vs. RWD. It's about modern electronics, advances in suspension design, and better wheel/tire setup.

[m7ammed]

DSC will stabilize the car before yo loose control in most sensible cases , but it will not beat the laws of physics so don't expect it too

[dmboone25]

The turbo lag is much worse on post 3/08 builds than those lucky enough to be built (and not have a software upgrade later) before March of this year.

The first E82 I drove, as well as older 335s, were MUCH better in this regard than what the N54 equipped cars have now.

Its total :bs:

[pit1]

As others have stated, electronic gizmos will not trump the laws of physics (warning labels) but they will keep you straight and steady in most reasonable situations. Breaking the rear of this car loose is very easy, but DSC will step in to keep things under control, almost to the point of annoyance.

I take the same bumpy on-ramp every morning, the 1er will hop and skip a bit in the rain, but even under heavy acceleration onto the highway she always stays straight and easy to control. I have a Dodge Magnum loaner for my wifes car today, no traction control. I took the same corner, slow and steady, I lost it upon exiting, the damn sled was all over the place. POS, it's no wonder so many Americans are bad drivers, the cars we make are crap, no pity for the struggling Big 3.

[IS+1]

Like what most before me have said, you'll be fine with the 135i. The electronic traction and stability features, along with decent winter tires if you ever venture up north, will pull you through almost any situation.

My current car is RWD, with traction control, and between yesterday and today we got about a foot of snow - even on days like this I do not regret getting RWD one bit.

As far as dry and wet weather driving are concerned, I wouldn't even think twice - get the 135i. Unless you show a complete lack of discretion or common sense behind the wheel, you're good to go. Cars have come a long way since 1985.

[adc]

There are several aspects to your query...

As a general rule, it takes more skill to drive a RWD car fast than a FWD or AWD car. The driving style must be a little different. A balanced RWD car will automatically rotate around corners where most FWD cars will simply understeer (push). This can be scary or unexpected, and many drivers react incorrectly to this, turning it from a bonus into a nightmare.

This said, it's what keeps me coming back to RWD - I enjoy the learning process, it never gets boring.

Secondly, the 135i will never try to kill you as your Firebird did. It will work with you, it's very balanced and has tremendous mechanical grip.

If you exceed that mechanical grip, or if you drive it incorrectly at the limit, it will spin just like any other car. But generally I think you will be amazed at the turn of speed available in the 135i. Just drive it a little more cautiously in the beginning until you become comfortable with it - especially so in the wet, where you need to be aware of the huge amount of torque available just off idle. Generally speaking, stock for stock, it's shockingly faster than a Celica, including around corners - if you know what you're doing.


It sounds to me like you would benefit from a driving school. Based on your comments, I don't think you fully understand car driving dynamics - this is not a slight, just an observation. Get your 135i, join the BMWCCA and sign up for their next driving school. The knowledge gained and the sheer amount of fun enjoyed at a driving school are absolutely unbelievable.

[Zinister]

Originally Posted by adc

There are several aspects to your query...

As a general rule, it takes more skill to drive a RWD car fast than a FWD or AWD car. The driving style must be a little different. A balanced RWD car will automatically rotate around corners where most FWD cars will simply understeer (push). This can be scary or unexpected, and many drivers react incorrectly to this, turning it from a bonus into a nightmare.

This said, it's what keeps me coming back to RWD - I enjoy the learning process, it never gets boring.

Secondly, the 135i will never try to kill you as your Firebird did. It will work with you, it's very balanced and has tremendous mechanical grip.

If you exceed that mechanical grip, or if you drive it incorrectly at the limit, it will spin just like any other car. But generally I think you will be amazed at the turn of speed available in the 135i. Just drive it a little more cautiously in the beginning until you become comfortable with it - especially so in the wet, where you need to be aware of the huge amount of torque available just off idle. Generally speaking, stock for stock, it's shockingly faster than a Celica, including around corners - if you know what you're doing.


It sounds to me like you would benefit from a driving school. Based on your comments, I don't think you fully understand car driving dynamics - this is not a slight, just an observation. Get your 135i, join the BMWCCA and sign up for their next driving school. The knowledge gained and the sheer amount of fun enjoyed at a driving school are absolutely unbelievable.

^^^ what he said. Most of it comes down to just being a good driver. Not good at taking a certain corner, in a certain car, but good all around. Which is were you will benefit from a driving school. No matter how good a cars gizmos and gadgets are, the number 1 most important factor is the driver. You can't have a vehicle do the work for you. The vehicle will do what you tell it to do, with proper driving and common sense.

[ChrisK]

Summer Tires + Snow = Dangerous

My 1er is stuck in the Garage for now.

[MZWIE]

Can't compare a FireChicken to a BMW.

[esses]

OP, reading your posts my take is you are just learning RWD. Enjoy! Rwd is a lot more fun than a tugboat (aka fwd). And good thing you cut your teeth in the fbird instead of the 1. You should check out autox in your area. Pushing a car on the track is where its at, public roads have way too many variables that are outside of driver control.