Automobile’s Amusing BMW 1M Coupe First Drive Video Review

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Sealobo

why are we even talking about this? for the sake of argument, let's say DCT is indeed perfect, and THAT IS PRECISELY why it deteriorates the driving experience. I don't think the centre of the argument is about the sophistication of the technology, but whether it takes the "analogue" side of driving out of the equation.

Exactly.... and this is what many journalists have said when comparing the Audi to the 1M... The Audi is fast, with it's launch control and all wheel drive, but also in a sense, a bit antiseptic.

A previous poster said that one doesn't want to be analog in a digital world, as if something is wrong with that? I WANT to be analog. Anyone here an audiophile? Sure CD's and MP3s are convenient... but when you really want to hear good audio with lush details, then tube amplifiers and turntables are where it's at.. Is a CD " better" because it is more portable, has good sound quality and convenient? OR is a record better because the experience of listening to is slays the experience of listening to a CD?

I AM an analog driver... I spend many weekends a year practicing my analog driving skills with archaic "lost" talents such as rev matching, threshold braking, driving with the traction control OFF, and shifting the car myself.

[eisenb11]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Anyone here an audiophile? Sure CD's and MP3s are convenient... but when you really want to hear good audio with lush details, then tube amplifiers and turntables are where it's at.. Is a CD " better" because it is more portable, has good sound quality and convenient? OR is a record better because the experience of listening to is slays the experience of listening to a CD?

The analog vs digital example is interesting.

Digital formats (eg. CD) more closely resember the actual recording as it was made. If you're trying to go for the most accurate recreation of what was intended, I'd go all digital - CD, digital amp, etc.

Tubes sound good, not because they're better at reproducing the music, but because they (and the other analog components, like "high-end" cables, etc) add all sorts of distortion to the sound going through them. The issue is that none of the stuff happenning in the analog realm was really intended or even present in the source material. It just so happens that the clipping of wave forms done by vaccum tubes, as an example, may create an"improvement" like create a better staging, which is pleasing to the ears.

Using that example, you'd then be saying that DCT is nearly perfect and allows the car to be driven as the designers of the car intended, while manual transmissions are not, but the "inaccuracies" of having one fortunately add to the enjoyment of the car.

With that in mind, I hereby proclaim that all MT owners should now have to pay $2900 extra so all of the people interested in DCT can get it for free!

[e1000]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

You are connecting two different arguments I made out of the context they were made in.

1. DCT enables poseurs to buy M3's, this does not mean all DCT owners are poseurs.

2. If BMW and other performance car manufacturers follow "what the market has spoken" as you propose, BMW's will increasingly have less differences from Lexus as we move forward. For instance a E9X M3 is more similar to the comparable Lexus in ride quality, road isolation, lightness of steering, and luxury amenities than the E46 M3 was to its comparable Lexus equivalent. Just like the E46 M3 was more similar to its comparable Lexus of the time than the E36 M3 was... and so on.


Both these arguments are fact. The issue is if the consumer continues to want this from BMW the more hardcore side of the M brand will slowly fade away. No one here is saying BMW should not offer luxury cars that compete with the likes of Lexus in any or all areas. What we opposed to is the M brand being dragged into the dirt and throwing away everything it once stood for in order to appease the average buyer who is able to drop 50-100k and is only buying the M car over the comparable 3 or 5 series for the street cred. BMW and its investors appear to be increasingly fine with this as long as it helps the bottom line.

I don't think anyone here would care if "the M brand" continues to go the way it is heading, so long as we are given say the "CSL brand" to take the place it once held, just like how the 1 series now is smallest line produced by BMW instead of that previously being the 3 series. This way the CSL brand can continue making focused lightweight sports cars, and the M brand can be whatever makes BMW the most money.

Like I've already said: if BMW designed and the marketed the M3 as if it were only going to be offered in stick shift, and then threw in DCT for those so inclined, the M3 would be a much better car than it is today.

I never said anything about what the market is or is not doing. Totally different person said that.

The e46 M3 never had an equivalent Lexus. Period. Since you like facts so much.

I think the point you and some others here are missing is, why having an alternative, especially one that is quicker, and performs better at just about everything, is a bad thing? I never once bashed or said anything bad about manual transmissions. I actually do believe not offering one in the M3 would be a mistake. The part that kills me is the complete aversion to anything BUT a manual transmission.

Also, name me a luxury oriented car option that also makes the car quicker in almost every respect. If the DCT was a luxury oriented car option, why not just offer a true automatic that has planetary gears and a torque converter?

Plain and simple, both the MT and DCT have thier place in the M brand. One more for the enthusiast and another for the driver that wants absolute performance.

Will some buyers that may not have bought an M3 if it was strictly a MT consider it due to the DCT? Maybe, but at the end of the day, is that so bad? No.

Why stop at DCT? Why not remove every technological driver aide while we're at it.

[speedM]

i think we tend to gravitate to numbers as those things are the only concrete factors most of us can relate to; it's a more objective way to compare cars against each other. i too, am guilty of wanting the most powerful, the fastest, the best handling, etc. in whatever i purchase, but it seems as we get older, you realize that the pleasures we get from our toys are not necessarily about those things. for example, i have two bikes, one is a supersport crotch rocket that is fast, revs to 14-15k, and sounds absolutely killer, and an old vintage honda from the 70s. i find that after i got the old honda, i love riding it more because its definitely more simple, visceral, and mechanical. it takes a bit more skill to ride it smoothly, and in the end it's not about going fast, but feeling more in tune with the machinery. with cars, like others have already said, the thrill of a perfectly executed succession of matched heel and toe downshifts, and being able to control the amount of bite of the clutch, etc. is what makes driving a joy, day in day out, for me that is.

in the end, i have no issue with people choosing dct, smg, dsg, etc. over a manual, just as long as it doesn't affect the future availability of manuals for people that desire them. unfortunately due to economics and the dwindling demand, manuals are probably not going to be around much longer.

[HBspeed]

I guess you either drive for the enjoyment of connecting and interacting with a well engineered machine in the form of a sports car, or you chose these cars for the numbers that look good on paper.

The only thing that matters to me is that companies like BMW stop diluting their most focused enthusiast products like the M3. I could care less what BMW does with every other car in their line up so long as they offer at least one car that is defined by a visceral and involving driving experience that has value within in the overall history of the performance automobile.

BMW hopping on the turbocharged heavy luxury bandwagon even for cars like the M3 along with everyone else makes me a little nervous for the future.

[spiike32]

Originally Posted by Oliver1

try here:

http://www.cafepress.ca/+fun_on_dark...le&pid=6673073

YES! I'm definitely getting one... then going to the dealer for a test drive.

[Drillslinger]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

1. DCT enables poseurs to buy M3's, this does not mean all DCT owners are poseurs.

Well said

[Haywood]

That's the greatest line I've heard between the M3 and 1M.

"If you want an M badge…go ahead and buy an M3. If you want what an M3 should be… buy one of these things!"

[J-9]

Originally Posted by e1000

Plain and simple, both the MT and DCT have thier place in the M brand. One more for the enthusiast and another for the driver that wants absolute performance.

I think you have been the most rationally argumentative poster on the thread, but here I must respectfully disagree.

The e30 M3 came with only one transmission: a manual. The M Division made a choice to make the fastest car that technology could affordably deliver. Auto trannys couldn't do it at the time...yet.

The M brand (to me) wants pure performance, not cater to the snobby "enthusiast" experience. I know that people think that the M division slaps a badge on anything, but they should drive them first. Even the X models from M are killers.

The M3 CSL only comes with a DCT, hence we deduce that BMW acknowledges that the DCT is the faster car for the M3's. I'm not a poser, just faster than an equal MT driver.

[Whteverjklasdf]

yeah sure. pure performance right? please feel free to delete your DVD player and navigation system and moonroof because the weight saving will also make you go half a second faster around the track... i mean, if you track at all. i don't know, your arguments just don't make a lot of sense (to me). =P

[moveswiftly]

DAMN!

[Drillslinger]

Originally Posted by J-9

The M3 CSL only comes with a DCT, hence we deduce that BMW acknowledges that the DCT is the faster car for the M3's.

Just a minor point here but... I'm pretty sure the CSL only came with the SMG II transmission.

[smaxon1]

Originally Posted by J-9

I think you have been the most rationally argumentative poster on the thread, but here I must respectfully disagree.

The e30 M3 came with only one transmission: a manual. The M Division made a choice to make the fastest car that technology could affordably deliver. Auto trannys couldn't do it at the time...yet.

The M brand (to me) wants pure performance, not cater to the snobby "enthusiast" experience. I know that people think that the M division slaps a badge on anything, but they should drive them first. Even the X models from M are killers.

The M3 CSL only comes with a DCT, hence we deduce that BMW acknowledges that the DCT is the faster car for the M3's. I'm not a poser, just faster than an equal MT driver.

Agreed. The M brand is whatever BMW wants it to be. This 'reviewer'(and others here) are trying to make it into something it's not. If they were in charge BMW would have been bankrupt a long time ago.

Bashing others for choosing a different transmission than you(or anything else in life for that matter) is very unappealing to me. Different strokes. Be inclusive rather than exclusive and just enjoy your car.

[HondaGoneRogue]

Originally Posted by e1000

Why stop at DCT? Why not remove every technological driver aide while we're at it.

1. Clutch Delay Valve
2. E-Diff (Ever wonder why your brakes fade on a track so quickly?)
3. Throttle-by-wire

These can all be trashed and replaced with thier respective "primitive" counterparts. And while I do not disagree with DCT, I would argue that it has the same numbing effect on the driver as the three above.

[FJS]

Hilarious video, too bad it turned out to be a reason for people to bash each other.

It was not a review, he said nothing about the cars, remember the saying, opinions are like a........ (we all know how it goes), let it go.

Everybody gets what they want to, right? Funny video.

Where can I get the shirt

Cheers

[cptJLPicard]

Originally Posted by AZ865

The part about the auto transmission is his opinion.

Opinions are neither right or wrong, I personally prefer the state of art DCT used in most touring race cars not the pre war stick my grandfather used.

The DCT allows me to concentrate on the skill of driving not think about gear changes.

"pre war stick..."?! You must be kidding, right?! Gear changes is part of driving, it makes the difference between steering the car and driving the car. At least this is how I see it.