Just Got The Bavarian Soundwerks Stage 1 Speaker System!

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by ken530i

.

But, I will say again, it is not in the customer's interests for prices to be kept high.

Ah, now we see what happens when there is insufficient competition.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by ken530i

OK. From a BSW standpoint, yes, keep the price high, drive demand down, and maximize profit per part. That is your strategy. Accepted.

But, I will say again, it is not in the customer's interests for prices to be kept high.

In the short term, no. But long term, it does serve their interest because it will allow us to begin ordering enough inventories and stocking enough inventories to both lower the price and maintain enough inventory to meet demand.

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

In the short term, no. But long term, it does serve their interest because it will allow us to begin ordering enough inventories and stocking enough inventories to both lower the price and maintain enough inventory to meet demand.

Only insofar as we stipulate that BSW and the customer's interests coincide.

I am not at all in favor of win/lose pricing strategies, on either side... but what's good for GM turned out not to be good for America.

[ken530i]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

In the short term, no. But long term, it does serve their interest because it will allow us to begin ordering enough inventories and stocking enough inventories to both lower the price and maintain enough inventory to meet demand.

I believe you would be more successful by increasing your working capital (investment in inventory) through incremental investment, rather than increasing WC through profits driven by high prices. If the demand is there.......get it while you can. Don't squash it! Increased volume/share drives long term sustainability -- if your product is good, customers will keep coming back.

Sell 10 - how many customers come back?
Sell 100 - how many customers come back.?

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by ken530i

I believe you would be more successful by increasing your working capital (investment in inventory) through incremental investment, rather than increasing WC through profits driven by high prices. If the demand is there.......get it while you can. Don't squash it! Increased volume/share drives long term sustainability -- if your product is good, customers will keep coming back.

Sell 10 - how many customers come back?
Sell 100 - how many customers come back.?

While it's argueable that our current prices are high (they are NOT by any measurable standard for what you get), they are higher than we eventually want them to be, yes, because we believe in offering the best possible value we can and because it will obviously increase our customer base.

But otherwise I'm in agreement. We HAVE gotten significant extra working capital which we ARE using to improve inventories -- and it's helped tremendously, but demand is just way higher than we ever anticipated. In this capital market it's a long uphill battle to get outside money to grow a business. We're doing what we can to obtain it, but in the meantime, the next best thing is generating it internally.

[Citizen Z]

Damn, I feel like I'm back in college, reading this thread. Both business classes and arguing about bullshit not completely mastered in the student union building.

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Ah, now we see what happens when there is insufficient competition.

There is much better equipment out there. Maybe a little more work but worth the effort. It is a relatively expensive car, worth it to do it right. The system will sound worlds better with Quality Brand Name Speakers and a aftermarket amp anyway. Dont see why someone would want to use the sub par OEM amp and no spec equipment. Not to mention the, we keep it expensive for the customers benefit sales pitch.

Just this mans opinion, of course.

[spfdenhugh]

Whew! Just to break the tension (ok, reasonable discussion of business economics vs "can we get a cheaper price"...), let me give my saga of installing the stage 1 upgrade in my 135 coupe:

Reviewed the video. Good video, but like many times when the rubber meets the road in any process what looks pretty easy, a few curves arise.

Opened the box(es). Very well packed. Front and rear tweeters. Front and rear mids. All padded and wrapped in plastic. Looks to be quality stuff.

Lets do the rear deck first-seems easy. Issue arose here with getting the grills off. The side tabs are very fragile. I was very careful and used plastic trim tools (these are a must anytime working inside the car) and still the side tabs broke (3 of 4!). OEM speakers out and BSW in. The oem tweeters are directional (pointing forward) and the BSW tweeters mount flat. Doubt if that is an issue in a 1 cabin. The mids seem to have the same size magnet, but look to be polypropylene vs paper cones. All plug and play. When I reinstalled the grills, they fit flush and looked fine, but I gently thumped the rear deck and there was a hint the grills might not be as tight (only 4 of 6 tabs holding them now) and the last thing I wanted was vibration, so I put a couple of pieces of 3m trim tape btw the grill and deck and they didn't move (I will likely order a new pair of grills as I am obsessive, but maybe not-looks fine and no movement).

Next to the doors. As always patience is important when pulling on trim to remove (that and plastic tools). In the video, the guy says that the 1 series is "well made and the panels are tight"-quite the understatement. I have put a few systems in cars over the years and pulled door panels, but those were the hardest f#@$&*** ever! (you need several trim tools to get an edge started and then pull like a mf while trying to be gentle-LOL). Here there is big difference btw the oem and BSW mids (the oem magnet is about 1 inch in diameter!). The only criticism I have with the tweeter install is when you remove the oem tweeter which is in a plastic trim ring and replace with the BSW (all aluminum) is that there is potential for rattling, so I placed sticky sided foam around the mounting surface of the tweeter-no chance for vibration and rattling. Again, all plug and play (no chance for doing it wrong as the plugs are specific). Another note here: I didn't seem much reason to cut little pieces of sound deadener (the door panel is very solid with reinforcing ribs which if very different from the typical panel I've seen), so I installed everything with the door panel resting on a box (didn't disconnect the control rod, etc) next to the door. Everything went back together easy and tight.

Therefore, regarding the install I would not use a sharp pick as noted (use a small screwdriver)-too sharp and high probability of damaging the plastic (no, I didn't ) and make sure you have several trim tools. Be prepared to break the side tabs on the back deck grills unless you are lucky (or I was not).

Now, fire it up and see if there is any difference. I grabbed a cd of the grammy nominees (this year)-a eclectic mix, mostly vocal, but dave mathews and eric clapton, so some variation. I also had my IPOD in the car but those downloads are limited sonically but I compared them as well. I would say there is significant improvement. Sharper highs and rolls off to the mids nicely. Very distinct and clear. I suppose the bottom end still is the weak link, but plenty enough for me and my listening (with the base set at flat). Overall, money well spent. I think it is a viable way to get a decent upgrade, remain stock in appearance and no surgery to the system.

Unbiased opinion. TIFWIW.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by NYC6

There is much better equipment out there. Maybe a little more work but worth the effort. It is a relatively expensive car, worth it to do it right. The system will sound worlds better with Quality Brand Name Speakers and a aftermarket amp anyway. Dont see why someone would want to use the sub par OEM amp and no spec equipment. Not to mention the, we keep it expensive for the customers benefit sales pitch.

Just this mans opinion, of course.

Again, have you HEARD our products and compared them side by side with the type of setup you're describing? No? Then please reserve statements about which is better until you can personally make a direct comparison. You have no basis of comparison and you're just making inaccurate assumptions about the quality of our components relative to "brand names" as well as overall systems performance. Period.

Regarding the price, as I've said again and again -- we think the value of the product is superb at it's current price, and so do many other people, which is part of why we can't keep product in stock. We WANT to lower the price, but can't because we would run out of product much more quickly and be unable to replenish with as much inventory, causing even more chronic backorder problems. It makes very little sense for us to drop pricing both for our business and customers in long-term.

[NYC6]

This is a public forum and not just a cheerleading forum for your company and at least one of your shills(OP). Sure you would love to have it where every post is a positive one but this is the real world. There are many different opinions voiced by all. Im entitled to my personal opinion whether you like it or not. PERIOD.

My post states 1- there is better equipment out there which perform better with an aftermarket more powerful amp. I would love to see a test of yours v. JL, Morel, Focal... 2- no spec speakers. Sorry but I wont eat food that refuses to disclose its ingedients and the same holds true for audio equipment. I want cold, hard #'s. You can go on any website and in a NY minute pull up any Major Brand Name Audio pieces and have all the data lined up. To not do so, smells of snake oil sales to me. Regardless of the reason given.


I dont have to hear your product to reach the conclusions I stated. But as you know even the largest, most popular Companys have people who aren't fans of theirs and won't touch their product. Please dont take this personally.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by NYC6

This is a public forum and not just a cheerleading forum for your company and at least one of your shills(OP). Sure you would love to have it where every post is a positive one but this is the real world. There are many different opinions voiced by all. Im entitled to my personal opinion whether you like it or not. PERIOD.

Our shills? HAHAHAHA! Believe what you'd like. These are honest reviews, though they did receive product at no cost. Still, do you think CNet.com pays for all the hardware they test before they review it?

But you're entitled to your opinion. Unfortunately your previous post was phrased as fact despite your disclaimer it was an opinion.

My post states 1- there is better equipment out there which perform better with an aftermarket more powerful amp. I would love to see a test of yours v. JL, Morel, Focal...

No, it stated "The system will sound worlds better with Quality Brand Name Speakers and a aftermarket amp anyway" which is incredibly ambiguous and may or may not be true depending on which products are used and how the install is performed. Is it likely that a professionally tuned system using higher end Morel drivers + Zapco amps would sound better than our Stage 1? Absolutely. Will it cost 3-5x more? Absolutely. But you didn't specify anything and what YOU described may sound like utter garbage next to our product.

2- no spec speakers. Sorry but I wont eat food that refuses to disclose its ingedients and the same holds true for audio equipment. I want cold, hard #'s. You can go on any website and in a NY minute pull up any Major Brand Name Audio pieces and have all the data lined up. To not do so, smells of snake oil sales to me. Regardless of the reason given.

Fair enough -- we have our reasons for not releasing them and if that turns you off, that's OK. I think you put too much stake in #'s -- but we're not gonna change your mind on this.

I dont have to hear your product to reach the conclusions I stated. But as you know even the largest, most popular Companys have people who aren't fans of theirs and won't touch their product. Please dont take this personally.

To make firm, authoritative statements like you made, you really DO need to hear them. Or adjust your language so you make more clear that you're making an EDUCATED GUESS but have NO personal experience and it's only your OPINION.

It's not an issue of whether you're a fan -- it's an issue of accuracy and clarity.

[NYC6]

Yes, reviews are done on products but it is fairly stated in the review and as far as I know they dont get to keep the cars! Thats the big difference. You really have a talent with putting a spin on something. Unlike the OP who made NO mention of getting the system for free. It was exposed later on. That is dishonest and borders on fraud. I think I see a pattern here. You also talk about "accuracy and clarity". This coming from somebody who insists on keeping his stuff shrouded and in the dark. Now thats irony at its best! You obviously dont know the defintion of the word shill.

-----------------------------------
Heres something to read, taken from Wiki-In marketing, shills are often employed to assume the air of satisfied customers and give testimonials to the merits of a given product. This type of shilling is illegal in some jurisdictions but almost impossible to detect. It may be considered a form of unjust enrichment or unfair competition, as in California's Business & Professions Code § 17200, which prohibits "unfair or fraudulent business act[s] or practice[s] and unfair, deceptive, untrue or misleading advertising".

This applys to free products and services.

[Simon_135i]

Lets leave the reviews to those who actually have the products! :Cheers:

Man is it just me or there has been a lot of negativity in the commercial section... First it was the iCarbon thread and now this...

[NYC6]

Just to refresh memories here. This is the OP and several he made after. Even with several members seeing red flags we have no admission of getting free equipment and services, thats odd. Intereting.

Originally Posted by Chris_B

http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/pr...ble-08-E82E88/

Got my car back from the drop off date after 2 days. Quick and Easy.

When I got my car back, I didn't notice a difference in looks, but as soon as I put on some music and raised the volume, the difference was amazing.
First thing i noticed was you could clearly hear the singer without any distortion. There is an incredible difference between the stock speakers and the BSW HiFi/Professional Audio system. The speakers give the music rich, warm tone and make it sound incredibly lifelike.
I remember when i had the stock speakers, I would always have to turn the volume down about 4 notches from full, because i hated all the static noise in the background,and I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. Now with these new speakers I can listen to whatever sound I want at full volume and I'm very impressed and very happy with the sound quality. I promise you that you will be amazed by these speakers.

Don't forget this speaker upgrade is good for both E82's and E88's

The stage 1 system replaces the front door and rear deck tweeters (4) and the front door and rear deck midranges (4)

The speaker system works beautifully off the stock amplifier, but there is an amp in development and i will update you all when it is finished.

Questions anyone?

Originally Posted by Chris_B

No, there is so sub included in the Stage 1 upgrade. I decided to email them to double check which system I got since I dont remember



Yes, the speakers are made and designed here in California by BSW.
The bass is normal, for the stage 1 system does not include an Amp or a Bass Upgrade. The Amp upgrade is in development and will *hopefully* be done around mid-late summer assuming everything goes according to plan.




I just got the stage one speakers right now. I checked the website and didnt see an amp upgrade listed yet, although I know there is one in development right now.

It really was amazing how great my music sounded once I got it back, even for just a speaker upgrade. I even compared it to my brothers car (he has an e90 328i that he swapped the amplifier in) and he was amazed how nice it sounded. I can only imagine how much better it will sound once the amplifier upgrade is complete also.
The guys at BSW do an awesome job with their audio systems

Originally Posted by Chris_B

I got a confirmation email back and I have the professional system upgrade.



Definately not paid, just extremely happy

Originally Posted by Chris_B

Really guys? This isn't some paid ad. I went and got the BSW upgrade for my car because I've heard good things about the company and i was incredibly happy with it that i felt i should share my experience with it on here and let you guys know about it.

Yea the specs aren't listed on the website, but they are designed to work well with the stock headunit, which they do!

And BSW isn't some off brand company, I've seen them in a few magazines, including Roundel Magazine.

Don't forget there's different stage 1 upgrades, and yes, even with the stock amp they sound great! But like i said before, an amp is in development as we speak!

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by NYC6

Yes, reviews are done on products but it is fairly stated in the review and as far as I know they dont get to keep the cars! Thats the big difference. You really have a talent with putting a spin on something. Unlike the OP who made NO mention of getting the system for free. It was exposed later on. That is dishonest and borders on fraud. I think I see a pattern here. You also talk about "accuracy and clarity". This coming from somebody who insists on keeping his stuff shrouded and in the dark. Now thats irony at its best! You obviously dont know the defintion of the word shill.

-----------------------------------
Heres something to read, taken from Wiki-In marketing, shills are often employed to assume the air of satisfied customers and give testimonials to the merits of a given product. This type of shilling is illegal in some jurisdictions but almost impossible to detect. It may be considered a form of unjust enrichment or unfair competition, as in California's Business & Professions Code § 17200, which prohibits "unfair or fraudulent business act[s] or practice[s] and unfair, deceptive, untrue or misleading advertising".

This applys to free products and services.

The point is that the customer was asked, politely, to post a review after he told us he was very happy with the product, product we installed in exchange for access to the car, no more.

He wrote it with ZERO input from us. Yes, it was an oversight on our part that we didn't ask him to describe the circumstances under which the product was received, but it was NOT our intent to deceive anyone, nor did he receive the product explicity for a review.

Here's the email chain between Jason (who was his contact and who put the product in the car) and the customer since I know you won't believe me otherwise:

> From: Steven Bagdy <t7XXXX@gmail.com>
> Date: January 28, 2010 10:42:47 PM PST
> To: Jason Seaver <jasons.bsw@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Development is here!
>
> Oh my god Jason! I am literally blown away with the sound of the 1 series! Those speaker upgrades sound better than my amplifier in my 3 series. I honestly had no idea it would sound that good. Don't worry, I'll have my brother post on 1 addicts and I'll post on e90post saying how great your system is. And yeah, whenever you wanna test the amp just let us know. Take care Jason! Thanks a lot!
>
> And hey, if you happen to find a spare set of speakers for the 3 series, let me know, lol. I'll have the reviews up by this weekend.
>
> Out and about on the iPhone.
>
> On Jan 28, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Jason Seaver <jasons.bsw@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Steven:
>>
>> The car sounds phenomenal. The amplifier upgrade won't be available until the summertime, but we'll of course keep you updated. All we ask is that you write an honest review of the Stage 1 on the forums over the next week or so and we'll do the rest. Thanks again for working with us, and enjoy the speakers!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Steven Bagdy <t7XXXX@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Jason, I accidentelly forgot to save your number in my phone. So today when i pick up the car its gonna have the speaker and amp upgrade, right?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Jason | BSW <jws@bavsound.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Steven:
>>>
>>> The OEM stuff is all yours!
>>>
>>> -jason
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Steven Bagdy <t7XXXX@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> And btw... I get to keep all the stock parts from my car also, just in case, right?
>>>
>>>
>>> Out and about on the iPhone.
>>>
>>> On Jan 19, 2010, at 1:53 PM, "Jason | BSW" <jws@bavsound.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sweet!
>>>>
>>>> Our address is XXX XXXX Drive, Suite 116, San Diego 92126.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I love the iPhone signature!
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Steven Bagdy <t7XXXX@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Alright. I can do that. Where do I have to take the car?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Out and about on the iPhone.
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 19, 2010, at 10:55 AM, "Jason | BSW" <jws@bavsound.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Steven:
>>>>>
>>>>> As mentioned, I'd need the car for a full two business days. The 27th (morning, 10am) through 28th (afternoon) would be ideal...
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Steven Bagdy <t7XXXX@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Jason! Thanks fantastic news! Would you need the car in the morning, or would leaving it in the afternoon be ok? I can leave the car on the 25th or 27th.
>>>>>
>>>>> Out and about on the iPhone.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:57 PM, "Jason | BSW" <jws@bavsound.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Steven:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The time is here, at long last! Can you review your schedule for the weeks of the 25th of January through the 29th, and the 1st through 3rd of February to see what days will work best for you?
>>>>>> We'd like the car for two consecutive business days, and it will be locked up and secured in the shop overnight. I'll look forward to your response...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason Seaver
>>>>>> Bavarian Soundwerks
>>>>>> www.bavsound.com

If you STILL won't believe us, I'm sure I can drum up the original contact between Jason and Steven.

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by Simon_135i

Lets leave the reviews to those who actually have the products! :Cheers:

Man is it just me or there has been a lot of negativity in the commercial section... First it was the iCarbon thread and now this...

I am not reviewing a product. I offered my opinion totally unrelated to a review. A Forum is an exchange of ideas and opinions. Sometimes they differ and debate results. Debate is a healthy form of communication.

[Simon_135i]

Originally Posted by NYC6

I am not reviewing a product. I offered my opinion totally unrelated to a review. A Forum is an exchange of ideas and opinions. Sometimes they differ and debate results. Debate is a healthy form of communication.

Sorry if I misunderstood but it sure does sound like you are giving your opinion about their product and their company when you haven't dealt with them or tried their product...

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by Simon_135i

Sorry if I misunderstood but it sure does sound like you are giving your opinion about their product and their company when you haven't dealt with them or tried their product...

So you never have an opinion on anything you havent tried or dealt with personally? Do you have an opinion on Hitler? When did you meet him? How about a Ford Pinto? How does it drive since you know? How about eating, lets say cat for dinner? I guess you tried that to have formed an opinion? Think you see my point.

If you go back to page 1 you'll see I was concerned about the lack of specs and called for some "ACCURACY AND CLARITY" to which I recieved a song and dance as to why they wont be disclosed. A reputable Speaker Co. gives those numbers. And more importantly addressed the issue that the OP's post seemed....."questionable" to say the least, which in fact after some light was shed upon it was indeed the case. I think these are things we should know as consumers. Im sorry you disagree.

[Simon_135i]

Originally Posted by NYC6

So you never have an opinion on anything you havent tried or dealt with personally? Do you have an opinion on Hitler? When did you meet him? How about a Ford Pinto? How does it drive since you know? How about eating, lets say cat for dinner? I guess you tried that to have formed an opinion? Think you see my point.

If you go back to page 1 you'll see I was concerned about the lack of specs and called for some "ACCURACY AND CLARITY" to which I recieved a song and dance as to why they wont be disclosed. A reputable Speaker Co. gives those numbers. And more importantly addressed the issue that the OP's post seemed....."questionable" to say the least, which in fact after some light was shed upon it was indeed the case. I think these are things we should know as consumers. Im sorry you disagree.

You lost me when you compared Hitler to an audio system... No worries though, not here to discuss world history or cats for dinner just about cars! GL man!

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by Simon_135i

You lost me when you compared Hitler to an audio system... No worries though, not here to discuss world history or cats for dinner just about cars! GL man!

Its the Principle Simon, the Principle.
No Worrys here. Best of luck to you also.

[spfdenhugh]

Hey, I paid for the system and I am happy! (and no I am not a 10/10 audiophile, but I can hear)

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by spfdenhugh

Hey, I paid for the system and I am happy! (and no I am not a 10/10 audiophile, but I can hear)

You're a SHILL, man, a SHILL! Anyone who likes BSW products has got to be a SHILL because they don't release specs!