What Gear Am I In?

[Zuzu]

Originally Posted by mattyv

I'm thinking you can get an optional chip with an US spec car, except it fits on to your shoulder instead of under the bonnet

Ouch !!!!!!!!

[Jeef Beef]

Originally Posted by BBK

Be interesting to see how long the manual actually lasts... I would hazard a guess and say that in the not too distant future all new cars will only have two pedals! Not that I want the manual to die, I too love to drive a manual.

Not likely, considering manual transmissions still account for about 75%+ of new car sales in Europe. Literally EVERYONE uses stick shift, regardless of the vehicle.

Seriously, when I was in France, even most of the BMW 5 series I saw parked on the street were 6MT. Australia is just one of the rare countries that have the exact opposite statistics for AT/MT ratio. It'd be pretty much impossible to find a 6AT 135i in a dealer showroom over there.

[BMWRX]

Originally Posted by Jeef Beef

Not likely, considering manual transmissions still account for about 75%+ of new car sales in Europe. Literally EVERYONE uses stick shift, regardless of the vehicle.

That's what I noticed on a recent trip to Europe. Pretty much every car is manual; even the taxis.

I love driving manuals (although driving one in KL traffic for three years somewhat blunted my enthusiasm for them), but in terms of everyday, get in and drive convenience, I went with the AT (plus I'm a sucker for flappy paddles).

[BBK]

Something like 90% of vehicles in the US are auto... Australia isn't quite that bad (yet). But good to hear that in Europe the manual is the chosen choice.

[05C4R]

majority of europeans drive manual diesels cos of a strong belief they use less fuel not for any sporting reason, if another system uses less fuel they will all buy that instead.

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by beemer

eg: you couldn't expand on that could you?

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by BSM 335I

ok now why would we be so disappointed that we can't heal toe in order to rev match when the computer rev matches on the dime each time and more precise then any human? Please don't bring up excuses that are pointless and that are just meant to start up bs.



yea maybe like 5 years ago lol. All or most of the dragsters I know run autos over manuals. We all know how frustrating manuals can be on a dragstrip so that's why an auto/dct is the logical choice in that scenario. I understand how manual can be more fun to drive but as everyone knows that for performance and getting the job done right (which is what i thought everyone was all about) that you choose an auto or dct. Now of course there are things you can do with a manual you can't with a step such as leaving your foot off the brake at a light but then were back to who can and can do pointless things lol. Again both great trannies for this car just different advantages on each.

???? he is still not picking up our culture?????

Or may be he's just a .....????

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by mattyv

I'm thinking you can get an optional chip with an US spec car, except it fits on to your shoulder instead of under the bonnet

[Jeef Beef]

Originally Posted by beemer

majority of europeans drive manual diesels cos of a strong belief they use less fuel not for any sporting reason, if another system uses less fuel they will all buy that instead.

That can't be the sole reason. Volkswagen/Audi have offered their range of DSG transmission for a while now, with lower fuel consumption and better efficiency than their manual counterparts. Yet, they still sell extremely poorly in the home country.

Read a recent article about the new Golf GTI and the DSG, apparently the manual still accounts for 90% of all sales in the domestic market, with countries like Australia and USA being the reverse. The GTI by all means has sporting intent, something must be going on there.

Maybe unlike here you must drive a manual to pass the driving test? Or they have a deep seated cultural hatred for automatic transmissions.

[Guran]

Originally Posted by BBK

Something like 90% of vehicles in the US are auto... Australia isn't quite that bad (yet). But good to hear that in Europe the manual is the chosen choice.

FYI, two thirds of the used E82s currently on carsales.com.au are autos. Autos are even more popular for the E88.

[BSM 335I]

Originally Posted by sparoz

???? he is still not picking up our culture?????

Or may be he's just a .....????

What do you mean? I didn't mean anything by it. He mentioned that the autos couldn't heal toe. Why would that matter if it's done for us precisely each time? It's like saying you can go back and forth with your mechanical can opener which gives you more control when an automatic just opens it and takes the top off. It's a pointless statement. Why would one want to complicate something that has already been perfected. If he didn't intend for it that way then he wouldn't of said it plain and simple.

[05C4R]

Originally Posted by Jeef Beef

Maybe unlike here you must drive a manual to pass the driving test? Or they have a deep seated cultural hatred for automatic transmissions.

Mr Beef you have done it again, your last couple lines are what i am about, my friends in france all have this belief, whether right or wrong, that a manual car uses less petrol, and audi and vw and bmw make some of the most efficient cars manual only, who knows? maybe the real reason is autos are percieved as an american abomination in europe. i wonder if we could get an americans opion on this, it may be difficult as they are such a reserved bunch of people.

[AussieRacer]

Originally Posted by sparoz

This show my limitations of my understanding sometimes . Wouldn't quicker and more consistant shift times make it better performance all round?

That all sounds great, but transmissions also have other qualities that factor into the type of performance you want.
Remember slush autos (meaning they have a torque converter) are vastly different to DCT gearboxes, and those are also different to robotised manual gearboxes (think SMG).

Guys that drag (at dedicated facilities) may like slush autos cause it makes up for their consciously unskilled abilities, and the torque converter allows them to "load up".

On a race track, auto/DCT/SMGs in road based cars all have a fairly common problem of gear selection - meaning they don't honour the driver's commands - primarily in the downchange. At command made to downchange at 7000rpm will be ignored, despite the fact you are slowing down so fast that by the time the downchange is completed the resulting revs might be only 4-5k. In other words, you know the downchange will be okay, but the computer doesn't let you as it is "protecting" the engine. Such logic is normally removed on proper racecars that use robotised gearboxes, or at least the over-rev limits are raised to allow a certain degree of 'buzzing the engine'.

On a race track, slush autos have properties that no matter how quick they shift, make them highly unsuitable as highly tuned performance machines. The non mechanical linkage to the driveshaft, being the main problem in 10/10ths driving.

Of course on the road where gear selection is somewhat guessed by what you see coming up (unless it is a road you travel often at speed), an auto (regardless of type) may be quicker point to point as the gear selection may be more ideal, or quicker to respond. And off the line on the road, a slush auto may be easier to consistently launch quickly.

So it goes back to my original point, each to their own, as depending on what sort of performance you are lusting after will determine which transmission option delivers you the best performance.

[MikeVictor]

Well written AR.

[TimMc]

I'm LOVING this argument!!!
There's no way I'd have optioned my 135 with an auto. Not for the Italian reason - where they question the sexual preference of auto drivers ("not that there's anything wrong with that"...), but for the fact I'd miss out on so much more of the driving experience I enjoy.

Let's keep this "debate" going. It's too good to stop

[sparoz]

Thanks AR - you are always a wealth of info. You are swaying me to another manual, if the wifey allows .

[BSM 335I]

Originally Posted by sparoz

Thanks AR - you are always a wealth of info. You are swaying me to another manual, if the wifey allows .

Yep that had to also do some with the decision of going with the step lol but still mainly mine. So love it while you can lol.